Children arrested, DNA tested, interrogated and locked up... for playing in a tree

Three kids get taken to jail, which may have seriously upset them, and certainly their parents, for chopping down/defacing a 'public tree'.

Yet its perfectly legal to chop down billions of trees, for the most worthless thing humanity has ever concocted - money.

That's *$*##$ up humanity for you

This is another example of the death of Innocence. Times have changed so much from the last generation that, it would seem, "common sense" has given over to political correctness and the protection of the Letter of the Law as opposed to the Spirit of the Law. In other words, things are definitely going to hell in a handbasket.

I am fifty-two years old. In "my day", if I was doing something similar, a policeman might have told me to "get out of that tree" and to "go find another tree". Perhaps one in "my" backyard. But I would have never gotten into "trouble" for this. Oh, maybe if I actually chopped the tree down or something, but never for trying to simply have fun.

No wonder that kids today are glued to their television sets surrounded by X-box wires. Kids are no longer encouraged to actually use their imaginations, to play, to build tree forts or dens, to run around and "just be kids". No, we have to "protect them from themselves". This is a sad indicator of the wierd times that face us all.

This reminds me of when i was younger, there was a forest near my town where there was about 5 treetop cabins and every day ppl living around that area went to chop down a couple branches for their fire places, never did anyone get thrown in jail, all I remember was someone getting a warning because he had hit a moving car with a branch..lol.. Anyways a couple kids the other day broke a light outside and all they got was a warning, NOT EVEN A TICKET, and they didnt get taken in custody or anything. I find what the cops did very inapropriate and rude. A 12 year old! 'Hey, instead of trying to solve murders and stopping robbers, lets go arrest those small kids over there for breaking branches!!'

-Jimmy-

Originally posted by timeless test
Nope. The sad part is that people who do not know the facts of a scenario are prepared to criticise the police and predict someting close to the collapse of modern society based on one newspaper article from an organ that is far from unbiased.

All you have done is given a fine example of Orwellian brainwashing that proves my point. I suggest you start becoming more aware of the term liberty or you damn well don't deserve any.

The adults and excuse makers in this epic tale of low IQ begats kiddy bashing, are the ones who lack conscience. Goon squads reacting to the whims of anal retentive whiners proves West Midlands loves idiocy more than raising children.

There's 100's of similiar stories, so here's another fine and recent act of police stupidity:

Children in trouble for hopscotch BBC

Perhaps those old anal spinsters ought to lighten up on the kids and start taking the time to be mentors or they're going to find they have no pensions and next generation won't give a crap about them.

Good karma, live it, learn it, do it....or pay in spades.

[edit on 5-8-2006 by Regenmacher]

Originally posted by Regenmacher
...fine example of Orwellian brainwashing

Far from it, indeed, I am the one who is questioning the story that is presented to me whilst others, (although fortunately not all), have lapped up the media spin without thought or hesitation.

Orwell's vision allowed no freedom of thought and no questions - Big Brother would have been proud of you although I am not sure that he would have approved of your own particular version of newspeak.

If liberty confers only the right to verbally abuse those who hold a different point of view then we are in a sorry state.

We used to buy our kids TUBS of chaulk just for this purpose! When they were done playing hopscotch, they covered the driveway with daisies and peace signs.

What are they thinking, the White Cliffs will get used up?

Both of these articles are promoting kids' playing as 'anti-social'. Huh?

From RM's:

In a statement, West Midlands Police said the officer visited the street following complaints not only about large areas of the pavement being left chalked but also after numerous complaints about anti-social behaviour in the area.

From the OP:

Superintendent Stuart Johnson, operations manager at Halesowen police station, said: 'I support the actions of my officers who responded to complaints from the public about "kids destroying" an ornamental cherry tree by stripping every branch from it, in an area where there have been reports of anti-social behaviour.

...

West Midlands Police deals robustly with anti-social behaviour. By targeting what may seem relatively low-level crime we aim to prevent it developing into more serious matters.'

This town's got a problem. What year/grade/form do they start teaching civics in the UK?

Ok what would Sheriff Andy do? Or... oh for the days the Bobby's didn't feel the need to be armed.

[edit on 5-8-2006 by psyopswatcher]

Here's another funny thing in the hopscotch story:

West Midlands Police community support officers asked parents in Spring Street in Halesowen to remove chalk markings after complaints about them.

...

The children washed some of the markings away but said they were determined to carry on playing.

Cops tell the parents to do it, and who ends up doing the washing away?

Those kids are learning the hard way and someone will grow up to rebel. Mark my words, there will be an anarchist in their midst, on Spring Street.

When I was about 12 a friend and I were loading up our pockets with candy in a store when the clerk caught us. He called the cops, the cops called our parents who promptly came to the store. The cops and our fathers talked inside for a while (we were in the backseat of the cop car) and then came out. The cops asked our dads what they wanted them to do with us and both are dads said "lock'em up, they're thieves." MAN, I thought the entire world had been dropped on my head, I couldn't believe it, my dad had abandoned me. We got taken to the station, fingerprints and mug shots and put in a holding cell. We cried for what seemed like hours (which was probably more like 5 minutes) when a cop came back and got us, our dads were waiting at the desk and gave us a nice long talk about how we knew stealing was wrong and now we know what happens to people who steal, that we needed to know that our actions have consequence and each person is responsible for the things they do. They wanted us to know that if we didn't think anything was wrong with stealing candy today then maybe we wouldn't think it was wrong to steal a car or someone's money tomorrow. I grew up just fine; I learned the difference between right and wrong.

These cops were probably doing the same thing, trying to put the fear of god into them so they wouldn't do it again. And I bet the entire mouth swab thing was more like this..."now we have your DNA so if you ever do ANYTHING wrong again we will know it was you and can come arrest you for it". DNA tests cost lots of money, trust me, no one is going run DNA test on those swabs.

The kids are little vandals and the cops did their jobs, they stopped a crime and did what they thought would keep them from doing it again, because until you know that something bad is gonna happen to you if you do something bad then their is no reason in the world for you obey ANY rule. As a child what teaches you to obey the rules?? FEAR. Fear of what your parents will do to you if you do something wrong. Sure, much later you learn to respect authority and all that stuff but it always will boil down to not wanting to pay the price if you're caught.

Trees are expensive and trees big enough to climb in are VERY expensive. Stripping the limbs off a tree has a lot of expense tied to fixing it, if the tree dies you have to buy a new one, pay someone to remove the old one, pay someone to plant the new one. Even if it doesn't die it take a very long time to re-grow limbs. What's the difference between them vandalizing that tree or keying your car? and if they catch 3 12 year olds keying up your car and all the cops do is say "stop that" then you will be bitching about why do I let my taxes pay your salary if all your gonna do is let criminals go??? Damned if you do and damned if you don't, I bet a cops life sucks.

I gotta say I am really glad my parents spanked me growing up or I could have turned out allot worse.

My dad and his friends started a bulldozer up at the age of 12. Only 1 got caught by the police. ...but they all got in trouble for it, eventually. One of several things my father did as a kid that would have got him in jail today, as a child.

He grew up to be a strict parent-very strict. Out of his 3 kids, 2 were too scared/lazy to do anything horribly wrong.
Me (the worst I ever did was steal a pack of gum AND got cuaght by one of the stockboys)...didn't like getting caught, never stole like that again.
The baby: won't go outside long enough to do anything very harmful, though he does lite fireworks in a parish that hasd banned them. Probably made a sparkler bomb, too....but with the help of the troupbeld middle brother or a cousin.
The middle child: A horrible, horrid teen who did extremely mild acts of vandalizm...the worst being the time he threw a rotton cabbage at a window, not thinking that the window would break, but that the cabbage would splatter. Glass shards and rotton cabbage all in someone's living room. He and his friend wern't caught, that time. My bro grew out of such stupidity, and is very much like his overbearing father.
Hell, we're all like our overbearing father. We can't seem to help it.

The friend, at a much later age, borrowed a sportscar wthout permission. The sportscar belonged to the parents of another friend, and they wanted to drop charges, since they were never really clear as to when it was ok to take the car without their permission. His parents didn't. So, he spent 3 months in jail, and started college late. But he's grown up to be like his father, too. A very good man. He didn't like waht he was becomming. A spoiled rich boy who could only get a rush out of making other people's lives miserable. He's had serious group talks about this with all the people he grew up with.

I don't think DNA was taken, in his case, even though his was a pretty major offense.

One boy, my bro. didn't need jail time for him to straighen out his own behavior. The other, still claims he needed to be in that jail cell--that he didn't have a chance without it.

In both cases, the father was the one in charge of hoiw the son was handled.


I have no problem whatsoever with kids being in jail over things that don't seem important to anyone else, if the parents are the ones who decide that they go there.

If they are going to take DNA, they should do it with a court order, or with a perent's signatre, not because the Cop thinks it's a good idea.

Note what I put in bold. Children's hopscotch and tree branch gathering are now considered anti-social or criminal behavoir in the UK. When you give away your liberty for the illusion of safety, then start looking forward to prison time and low wages.

Don't feed the birds either:
Bird-lover handed ASBO for feeding pigeons

[edit on 5-8-2006 by Regenmacher]

Originally posted by Regenmacher
Don't worry, goes the typically British assurance: our powers may be draconian, but decency and common sense will ensure we don't overuse them.

Please tell me which Briton or branch of British government actually made this statement - or did you make it up yourself?

Children's hopscotch and tree branch gathering are now considered criminal behavoir in the UK.

No they're not, that's why none of the children involved were charged with any offence. Have you been accepting what the media tells you without questioning it again?

Originally posted by timeless test
Please tell me which Briton or branch of British government actually made this statement - or did you make it up yourself?

I suggest you start learning what a hyper-link is.

Originally posted by timeless test
No they're not, that's why none of the children involved were charged with any offence. Have you been accepting what the media tells you without questioning it again?

Your semantical drivel doesn't change the fact that those kids are now seen as criminals and/or potential criminals. The police and Halesowen just crapped all over their future outlook in life and threw commonsense to the dogs. The UK is rapidly becoming a nation with the most draconian social controls in the Western world.

Hopscotch kids: Police described the incident as low-level crime.

Tree breakers: Arrested and swabbed for DNA; reason of criminal behavoir.

Anti-Social Behaviour Order -wiki
Although these are civil orders, the behaviour complained of must be proved to the criminal standard. It should be noted that a little known Scots Law, Lawburrows, enables a summary action before a Sheriff with only the civil standard of proof that the pursuer was likely to be put in fear - on the balance of probability, no witness apart from the pursurer, no court record, etc. and a bond lodged in court immediately, to be forfeit should the pursuer be put in fear subsequently. Although narrower than ASBO, the aim of Lawburrows is "...to prevent such delinquences and terrify evil doers.

Using 18 pieces of legislation, this Government has taken a sledgehammer to our rights
telegraph.co.uk

"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act" ~Orwell

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." ~Franklin


2002 London Transport Poster

[edit on 5-8-2006 by Regenmacher]

Definition of ASBO according to Wikipedia. Everyone commenting on this article should probably read this first to understand what is going on in Great Britain. EDIT, Regenmacher I just noticed you posted the same link. Apologies.

A MORI opinion poll published on 9 June 2005 found that 82% of the British public were in favour of ASBOs, however only 39% believed they were effective in their current form.

It seems to me this is a new form of law, and still needs a lot of work. It reminds me a little of the 'three strikes' law, in which a person could (theoretically) go to jail for stealing an ice-cream cone. It also sounds to me like not everyone (and probably including individual Police officers) is clear on what's O.K. and not O.K. to do.

Some critics of the ASBO system argue that it criminalises behaviour that is otherwise lawful. Other parties have voiced concerns about the open-ended nature of ASBO penalties - that is, there is little restriction on what a court may impose as the terms of the ASBO, and little restriction on what can be designated as antisocial behaviour. Theoretically, they argue, it is possible to impose indefinite house arrest on an individual who has Tourette's syndrome or has an unusual hairstyle[13]. This is compounded by the fact that individuals can be jailed for up to five years if they break the terms of their ASBO.

This is also a very helpful website to inform you on the subject. Please read it if you are interested in knowing what is going on:

CrimeReduction.gov.uk--A Guide to Anti-Social Behavior,.....

Anti-social behaviour has a wide legal definition – to paraphrase the Crime and Disorder Act 1998, it is behaviour which causes or is likely to cause harassment, alarm or distress to one or more people who are not in the same household as the perpetrator. Among the forms it can take are:

--graffiti – which can on its own make even the tidiest urban spaces look squalid

--abusive and intimidating language, too often directed at minorities

--excessive noise, particularly late at night

--fouling the street with litter

--drunken behaviour in the streets, and the mess it creates

--dealing drugs, with all the problems to which it gives rise.

All these are issues which concern everyone in the community. They cannot be written off as generational issues – they impact on the quality of life of young and old alike. And they require a response which puts partnership into action.

This is my take on it: Most people seem to like it, because now if a neighbor is blasting their stereo full volume past 12:00 a.m. for instance, cops might do more than just show up and tell the person to turn the volume down. If you've ever had neighbors like this, you might hear the music turned up again as soon as the cops are out of sight. If there is a threat of being taken in, that neighbor might think twice before he/she turns the stereo back up.

I see this law as being problematic at least in one way, but also beneficial to law-abiding citizens in many ways.
There is definitely room for abuse from both Citizens and Authorities. They'll have to figure it out. I've heard of at least a couple of proposed laws coming out of Great Britain which sent chills down my spine. This one comes close, but I think it can evolve into something good as much as it could transform into something bad.

[edit on 5-8-2006 by 2manyquestions]

From reading some of these posts, you would think the police abused the kids, raped the little girl and drug the parents into the street and beat them to a bloody pulp. mayby they should have just shot them; after all they were torturing a poor defensless little cherry tree.

Originally posted by WyrdeOne


voxel
Do you have any idea how ridiculous it sounds when you say, in so many words, that kids who build tree-forts are more likely to grow up to be rapists?

I couldn't agree with you more! I would so much rather see kids building tree forts, and playing outdoors than doing drugs! I hardly think building a fort makes children criminals.

My son & his friends ocassionally ride dirt bikes outside on our country road....we live way out in the country. There's a couple of old fart that live up on the hill and have come down to complain. All the kids on my private road ride, and those old farts were chased off in no uncertain terms by every parent on this street. In fact it was asked of them if they'd rather see the boys out smoking pot? My road is private, the county doesn't maintain it.... the people that live on it grade it, gravel it.... so what's it to him? It's not like they ride after dark.

I think who ever reported these kids is probably of the same snoopy, grumpy personality as the old farts that live a half mile away from me...up on the hill.
Geez.... what is this world coming to?