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On Patriotism - Why 11 Million Cubans Love Fidel

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posted on Oct, 22 2006 @ 10:30 PM
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Repression of Dissidents
Cuban authorities continue to treat as criminal offenses nonviolent activities such as meeting to discuss the economy or elections, writing letters to the government, reporting on political or economic developments, speaking to international reporters, or advocating the release of political prisoners. While the number of political prosecutions has diminished in the past few years, Cuban courts continue to try and imprison human rights activists, independent journalists, economists, doctors, and others for the peaceful expression of their views, subjecting them to the Cuban prison system's extremely poor conditions. Even as Cuba released some political prisoners early in 1998—most of whom had completed most of their sentences—continuing trials replenished their numbers. Prison remained a plausible threat to any Cubans considering nonviolent opposition. In the case of four dissident leaders arrested in July 1997 and only tried—for inciting sedition—in March 1999, receiving sentences ranging fromthree and one-half to five years, the arbitrariness of Cuban repression was starkly on display.

In the past two years, Cuban prosecutors have relied heavily on criminal code provisions against enemy propaganda and contempt for authority (desacato) to silence dissent. During this period, prosecutors also have tried dissidents for defamation, resisting authority, association to commit criminal acts (asociación para delinquir), failure to comply with the duty to denounce (incumplimiento del deber de denunciar), and the catch-all charge "other acts against state security" (otras actas contra la seguridad del estado). Cuba's prisons also hold nonviolent political prisoners tried for crimes against state security, such as enemy propaganda, rebellion, sabotage, and revealing secrets concerning state security. Individuals convicted of state security crimes often are serving long sentences of ten to twenty years. In addition, Cuba continues to imprison, for "dangerousness," scores of citizens who have not committed a criminal act and also confines persons for "illegal exit" for attempting to exercise their right to leave Cuba.

Cuban Laws Restrict Human Rights

While Cuba's domestic legislation includes broad statements of fundamental rights, other provisions grant the state extraordinary authority to penalize individuals who attempt to enjoy their rights to free expression, opinion, press, association, and assembly. In recent years, rather than modify its laws to conform to international human rights standards, Cuba has approved legislation further restricting fundamental rights. A notable exception to this trend is the partial restoration of religious freedom. But Cuba has consistently refused to reform the most objectionable elements of its laws. Cuba's concurrent refusal to amnesty political prisoners and its continued prosecution of nonviolent activists highlight the critical role that Cuba's laws play in its machinery of repression.

The Cuban Criminal Code lies at the core of Cuba's repressive machinery, unabashedly prohibiting nonviolent dissent. With the Criminal Code in hand, Cuban officials have broad authority to repress peaceful government opponents at home. Cuban law tightly restricts the freedoms of speech, association, assembly, press, and movement. In an extraordinary June 1998 statement, Cuban Justice Minister Roberto Díaz Sotolongo justified Cuba's restrictions on dissent by explaining that, as Spain had instituted laws to protect the monarch from criticism, Cuba was justified in protecting Fidel Castro from criticism, since he served a similar function as Cuba's "king."

www.hrw.org...




posted on Oct, 22 2006 @ 10:48 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
It has to do with who has put up with Castro in Cuba all these years that he has been a dictator . . .

After Castro took over the Island most of the exiles were the rich and well to do, while mostly poor and Castro supporters stay in the Island.


That is not true at all Marg, I don't know where you heard that, but it is not true at all. Most of what you call "the rich people" left when castro got in power and in the 60s. "Most Cubans" who have left the island since then have been poor people who had nothing to lose and wanted a better life for their families and themselves. The mass immigration of Cubans started later on when Cubans slowly began to realize what castro was doing to the country.

People are so desperate, even these days that they venture the seas, the coast of Cuba are infested with sharks which have killed and eaten many Cubans who have tried to leave the island and the regime.


Originally posted by marg6043
These exiles lost everything and had to start over in the US.

They occurs hate Castro and wants him death . . .that the sentiment has been pass through their generations since exile.


Marg...please don't talk about something which you have no experience about and don't know anything about, it insults me and DG, and if there are any other Cubans in the forums, who are not working for castro's regime...


Originally posted by marg6043
But they are not the ones that have suffered under his rule, the ones that support Castro has not choice they has learned to live under him and they actually can no see light after him.


Now this is partly right...the people who left Cuba during and after the 60s did suffer a lot in Cuba. It was the main reason, plus not being able to speak up and not being able to feed their families and themselves properly, to leave the island.


Originally posted by marg6043
Yes they support him and even love him its their Icon.


There are some that do, others just follow orders so their own immediate family can get some food int their tables, but most Cubans living in Cuba hate castro. If you go to Cuba and earn the trust of some Cubans, might let their true feelings out and tell you what they really think.


Originally posted by marg6043
Exiles has found a better live in the US and actually many of them don't even remember what it was to be under Castro's rule.


......Marg, can you read people's minds?

Please don't presume to know whether those people who have left Cuba remember or not what their families and themselves had, or have to go through under the regime of castro.


[edit on 22-10-2006 by Muaddib]



posted on Oct, 22 2006 @ 11:02 PM
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Thank you very much, Muaddib. I appreciate your articulate writing and your ability to explain it all.

People here read dissinformation- college-level dissinformation, i might add, and take it as the gospel.

Its a beautiful island paradise where people are dying thanks to Castro. Yes, Batista was bad enough, but you never saw people exiting the island in a mass exodus because of him.

I wonder why people think (we) left Cuba? Certainly, nobody would leave paradise for no reason, would they?

I guess if you're a communist, it would be paradise although even communist people would love to eat once in awhile.



*Keep in mind that both Muaddib and I are Cubans*

I'd like to know what credentials the author of this post have pertaining to Cuba?
Could you tell us?
You have posted how wonderful Cubans have it there many times, and i'm curious what your background is


[edit on 22-10-2006 by dgtempe]



posted on Oct, 22 2006 @ 11:28 PM
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I went on a recent cruise. We stopped in Cozumel, Mexico, the Grand Caymens, and Jamaica.
We went almost the whole way around Cuba. It was so odd being able to see it from the boat but not being able to stop there.
I had binoculars and looked at the views at closely as I could. I could see distant buildings and even a big lighthouse.

It seemed odd to me that our ship could'nt stop in Cuba but yet could get that close.
Of course I don't know how far out from Cuba is international waters.



posted on Oct, 22 2006 @ 11:34 PM
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Elaine, if you could see buildings, you were dangerously close to gunfire.

The lighthouse is "El Morro" in Havana.



posted on Oct, 22 2006 @ 11:38 PM
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Yep that looks like the one!
My husband half-jokeingly (I guess) said I should look for submarines comeing to torpedo us.
He was surprised too that we were that close.



posted on Oct, 22 2006 @ 11:39 PM
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My school was maybe 1/2 mile away from here.


Its nice to see again.



posted on Oct, 23 2006 @ 07:48 AM
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I can't even begin to imagine what it must be like to have to flee from your home, and country. Sympathy would be misplaced, so I won't give it. Someday, Cuba will be without fidel and his ilk, and on that day maybe, just maybe, the exiles who want to go home can. Do hopes for a better day for Cuban exiles and their families count as sympathy?

I've heard stories from freinds of mine who fled Cuba, and I've heard the apologists for Fidel speak. I know who I believe, oddly enough it's the people who were there and had to flee for their lives.

We are told, oh its not so bad there by Oliver Stone in his documentory or whatever you want to call the piece of misinformation that he put out not so very long ago, and others like him. Then I remember stories and pictures that my freinds have told me.

Believe the lies coming out of fidels ministries if you will...I'll take the truth from the mouths of my freinds. DG and Muaddib, you just keep right on denying the lies.

Edited because I can't spell.

[edit on 23-10-2006 by seagull]



posted on Oct, 23 2006 @ 08:28 AM
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Seagull,

Thanks for understanding that "we" have the right scoop.

I appreciate your comments.



posted on Oct, 23 2006 @ 01:00 PM
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You are quite welcome. It's only the truth, afterall. I fervently hope that some day, you and/or your family can go back. Heck maybe, assuming you'd be able to tolerate me, I'll go along and you can show me those fab beaches I've heard so much about...
.

I hear the stories from not only the Cubans on this site...but Cubans with whom I have close freindships with, and then I see these so called documentaries, or read interviews given by the freinds of Fidel. They are 180 degrees different. I've never been there, legally I'm forbidden to go last I heard, but the tales I've heard from before Fidel have always made it sound so good. They've, my freinds, have never said that Batista was a saint, far from it...but that Fidel is worse.

Someday, it'll happen.



posted on Oct, 23 2006 @ 01:40 PM
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posted by seagull

I fervently hope some day you and your family can go back. Heck maybe, assuming you'd be able to tolerate me, I'll go along and you can show me those fab beaches I've heard so much about . . “ [Edited by Don W]



Actually S/G, they can return to Cuba anytime they want, provided they do not act against the July 26 Revolution. The Cuban expatriates up here are for the most part the rich and famous and managers of the American and other foreign owned corporations that exploited the ordinary Cuban. The same kind of people who fled Hanoi to Saigon in Vietnam when the French were pushed out. Capitalist lackeys I call them.



I see these so called documentaries, or read interviews given by the friends of Fidel. They are 180 degrees different. I've never been there, legally I'm forbidden to go last I heard, but the tales I've heard from before Fidel have always made it sound so good. My friends, have never said that Barista was a saint, far from it . . but that Fidel is worse. Someday, it'll happen.


I can think of 2 things Fidel did that Barista did not do. 1) ran the Mafia out of Havana. 2) Provided universal access to health care for all Cubans. Look in the CIA Factbook for statistics on health and compare to the US.

The US fears this desire to run your own country will bring about July 26 movements all across the Western Hemisphere. As in Venezuela, Bolivia, Chile, Nicaragua and etc. The United States Marine Corps has always been the “enforcers” for the American capitalist in the Western Hemisphere.



[edit on 10/23/2006 by donwhite]



posted on Oct, 23 2006 @ 02:05 PM
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Capitalist Lackey's you call them. Friends fleeing oppression, I call them. Hate to break this to you, but a large majority of the Cubans who fled, and continue to, were neither rich, nor famous. My freinds who fled are neither rich, save in character, nor famous, and have no desire to be.

Oh yes, some were indeed, lackeys of Batista; fleeing from the righteous anger of the Cuban people for past crimes. No one, least of all I, is saying it was all sweetness and light under Batista and his cronies. There were abuses, prisons, and exploitation of the workaday Cuban. Who has denied that? No one.

But your contention that the average workaday Cuban is better off under Castro is utterly false. If they are so much better off, why are so many fleeing, and dieing in the Florida straits? Free medical care? Not when they have to work in those labor camps harvesting food they'll never see. Ain't hardly free.



posted on Oct, 23 2006 @ 04:58 PM
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Donwhite

is not in contact with any real Cubans- he's simply quoting his beliefs that he is into, for some odd reason.

I say to you, donwhite, move to Cuba and enjoy the good life.

Why waste time? Cuba, North Korea, they're all waiting for you.



posted on Oct, 23 2006 @ 05:02 PM
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posted by seagull

Capitalist Lackey's you call them. Friends fleeing oppression, I call them . . yes, some were lackeys of Batista; fleeing from the righteous anger of the Cuban people for past crimes. No one, least of all I, is saying it was all sweetness and light under Batista and his cronies. There were abuses, prisons, and exploitation of the workaday Cuban. Who has denied that? No one. [Edited by Don W]



Like every other “owned” dictator in the Western Hemisphere, calling one-self an anti-communist caused the US to overlook every sin known to man. Why do you think we invade and re-invade Haiti? When a populist is elected to office, we promptly move in to “restore order” and replace him with our own puppet. We supported the father (Papa Doc) and his son (Baby Doc) Duvalier’s who were kept in power by the Tonton’s. 10s of 1000s of Haitians were raped, tortured and murdered by the so-called “security forces.” Did we ever invade Haiti then? No, to answer my own question.

The US government - not to be confused with America - has NO moral authority in the Caribbean or south of the Rio Grande. Anywhere. Haiti. Cuba. Bolivia where we murdered Che Guevara before your time. But not mine. Sorry Seagull, but if “we” like’em, you can be pretty sure they are “bad” for their country. Our lackeys.

There are also a lot of Cubans who have left Cuba for religious reasons. Many of them want not freedom of religion, but want the “freedom” to restore the Catholic Church to its pre-eminent position in Cuba. There is a difference. That's passe. Archaic.



[edit on 10/23/2006 by donwhite]



posted on Oct, 23 2006 @ 05:08 PM
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You ignore my comments on purpose because you know i'm Cuban.

That's allright.

No problem there. You are making a fool out of yourself by constantly promoting the goodness there is in Cuba. If you love Cuba and Fidel so much, why do you not relate to Cubans?

Who are you? Fidel?

I've never seen so much dissinformation posted here. ATS does not condone lies, which you blatanbly insist on posting. You're a dissinformation artist.

Maybe you can convince some, but the rest of us know better.

Look over my shoulder, dont make eye contact with me.
After all, why confront someone who lived there and had to leave with only the clothes on her back in order to have freedom?
You actually might learn something from me and Muaddib. We are the voice, we are the ones who count. You know nothing.



posted on Oct, 23 2006 @ 05:12 PM
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You also will not address Muaddib. Is there a reason?

You only address Americans or non-Cubans?

Why?



posted on Oct, 23 2006 @ 05:14 PM
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donwhite. My friend, if you are going to quote me, I would suggest that you use the entire statement. Don't mix and match to make it fit your purpose. Quote the whole thing or none.

Making it sound like my friends were the ones fleeing justice is a cheap shot. I thought you better than that. Was I wrong?



posted on Oct, 23 2006 @ 05:30 PM
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Dgtempe posted:

DonWhite: You ignore my comments on purpose because you know I’m Cuban. That's alright. No problem there. You are making a fool out of yourself by constantly promoting the goodness there is in Cuba. If you love Cuba and Fidel so much, why do you not relate to Cubans? Who are you? Fidel? [Edited by Don W]



I witnessed Hungarians come here from the failed Budapest Revolt of 1956. I have witnessed Cubans come here from the July 26 Movement. I’ve seen the Boat People from Vietnam and Cambodia. I feel pain for Haifa, the poorest country in the Hemisphere, we have often “boated” although the US Marines occupied the country from 1918 to 1933. And invaded 3 or 4 other times since then. I was alive and well when Richard Nixon ordered the assassination of Chile's reform President Salvador Allende. The US passed a law our government would not assassinate world leaders but Bush43 abrogated that law. Reports of the demise in Iraq of Abu al Zarqawi point to a cold blood murder, not to killed in combat. Our powers that be did not want a second Saddam side show.

I understand your POV but I do not agree with it. I am sure I cannot change your opinions and you can be sure you will not change mine.


[edit on 10/23/2006 by donwhite]



posted on Oct, 23 2006 @ 05:51 PM
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Don says:

I understand your POV but I do not agree with it. I am sure I cannot change your opinions and you can be sure you will not change mine.


Why waste bandwidth? You started the post.



posted on Oct, 23 2006 @ 07:09 PM
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Seagull takes issue with my post-back technique. Here follow the full post he refers to.



posted by seagull
Capitalist Lackey's you call them. Friends fleeing oppression, I call them. Hate to break this to you, but a large majority of the Cubans who fled, and continue to, were neither rich, nor famous. My friends who fled are neither rich, save in character, nor famous, and have no desire to be.

Oh yes, some were indeed, lackeys of Batista; fleeing from the righteous anger of the Cuban people for past crimes. No one, least of all I, is saying it was all sweetness and light under Batista and his cronies. There were abuses, prisons, and exploitation of the workaday Cuban. Who has denied that? No one.

But your contention that the average workaday Cuban is better off under Castro is utterly false. If they are so much better off, why are so many fleeing, and dieing in the Florida straits? Free medical care? Not when they have to work in those labor camps harvesting food they'll never see. Ain't hardly free.


OK, Seagull, the above is your entire unedited post. Follows immediately my edited post which is plainly marked, by the way.

quote:
posted by seagull

Capitalist Lackey's you call them. Friends fleeing oppression, I call them . . yes, some were lackeys of Batista; fleeing from the righteous anger of the Cuban people for past crimes. No one, least of all I, is saying it was all sweetness and light under Batista and his cronies. There were abuses, prisons, and exploitation of the workaday Cuban. Who has denied that? No one. [Edited by Don W]
END

I do not see where I have altered the sequence of anything you wrote. I did delete that much content which did not seem to me to rise to the level of my commentary. IMO.

I believe I’m within the “fair comment” rule. I am not happy you think not. I post back to you fairly often and have no desire to upset you. I have done this since I first posted here and you are the 2nd person to remark unfavorably. DGTempe says I use up bandwidth but that is the whole raison d’etre of ATS.

May I ask for your response, Seagull?



[edit on 10/23/2006 by donwhite]





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