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The Rich Get Yet Another Break

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posted on Aug, 2 2006 @ 08:14 AM
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Bill Frist, R Tenn, said he would schedule a vote Friday to see if a bill containing reduction of the estate tax. Also linked to this bill will be other popular tax breaks and increasing the Fed. minimum wage. The estate tax exempt would be incresed to 5 million for and indivuadal and 10 million for a couple, and the top amount paid in tax would be reduced to 30%. The other tax breaks include research and development, college tuition, and state sales tax. The last time reduction of the estate tax came up for vote it fell 3 votes short.
 



www.foxnews.com
"The only road to legislative heaven in this Republican-dominated Congress is to repeal the estate tax,"he said.

It's a major political battle for both parties as they head toward an election with control of Congress at stake. Republicans hope to neutralize one of the Democrat's biggest issues, the minimum wage, while scoring a victory on one of their own, the estate tax.

The bill links a $2.10 increase in the $5.15 hourly federal minimum wage, phased in over three years, with a reduction of estate taxes. It would exempt $5 million of an individual's estate and $10 million of a couple's from taxation by 2015. Over the same time, the top estate tax rate would fall from 46 percent this year to 30 percent.




Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


Well, hear we go again. Yet another bill to keep the rich as rich as possible being presented with ridders to make it look like they are helping the poor. I know all the rich people out there will want this to pass, personally no one in my family has ever see an estate be worth enough to break the current limit for an estate tax. This would be the time for those of you in the US to call your representees and tell them what you think.

www3.capwiz.com...

Related News Links:
www.washingtonpost.com
www.mar ketwatch.com
www.ohio.com
www.csmonitor.com




posted on Aug, 2 2006 @ 04:53 PM
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Hear is a quote and another link on the same topic. I thought this one said it pretty well.




Representative Barney Frank (D-MA) called the Republican scheme "the most ethically repugnant, intellectually dishonest, morally bankrupt ploy I have ever seen in a legislative body." He went on to say to House Speaker Dennis Hastert (R-IL) that "... apparently shame has become entirely irrelevant to you and your party."



www.huffingtonpost.com...



posted on Aug, 2 2006 @ 07:50 PM
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Why should heirs have to pay exorbitant taxes on money that has already been taxed? Repealing or lessening the estate tax would benefit everyone, not just the rich. What's wrong with people keeping more of their own money?

Barney Frank....



posted on Aug, 2 2006 @ 07:53 PM
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They're dead...they don't need the money. I mean, these are the super rich, why am I concerned with how much money they have again?

Giving someone who makes 5.15 a raise is one thing...giving someone who has millions in the bank a raise is something completely different.

-O



posted on Aug, 2 2006 @ 07:55 PM
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Why should heirs have to pay exorbitant taxes on money that has already been taxed? Repealing or lessening the estate tax would benefit everyone, not just the rich. What's wrong with people keeping more of their own money?


I agree completely. This money has already been taxed at LEAST once. What is the government going to do with the money? Help the poor?



posted on Aug, 2 2006 @ 07:59 PM
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The estate tax does not affect everyone. Elemating it would only benefit the rich because currently, if I rember right, the estate tax is only for estates over six hundred thousand dallers. I have not seen any one in my family with an estate worth that kind of money. This bill is the rich convinceing the government representives to give them a break. And the rider it is atached to is the deception they will use to fool the people.



posted on Aug, 2 2006 @ 08:12 PM
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When I say everyone, I mean that the public benefits when people keep more of their own money. If my father desires to leave me a million dollars, then I don't see why I should pay more than income tax on that money. My father doesn't have a million dollars and if he did he wouldn't leave it to me, but I still believe that the estate tax is no better than highway robbery. Why should I begrudge the rich their success? Why should anyone?

[edit on 2006/8/2 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Aug, 2 2006 @ 08:24 PM
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The reason I can give you for the Gov to take the money from the rich is because if they dont get it from the rich they will get it from everyone else. That does sound synical, and it is, but also probably the truth. That million dallers your father wants to leve you can easiley be hidden so it can be transfered with out the tax. The wealth in property is harder to do that with. That is where the rich will save most of there money with this bill.



posted on Aug, 2 2006 @ 08:35 PM
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These guys who benefit from these tax breaks aren't going to go out and buy a yacht, or a new house- they already have all this stuff. How do the rich get richer? They create businesses to make them money. What do businesses require? Employees. This, I believe, is part of what Grady was saying.

The more money in the hands of citizens, the better the economy. These people benefiting from this tax break are going to try to make themselves more money. If they do it by investing in stocks or whatnot- they pay capital gains TAX. If they do it by making a successful business (which is why most of them are 'rich' anyway) they will create more jobs, and more opportunities for everyone else.



posted on Aug, 2 2006 @ 08:49 PM
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Originally posted by The Big O
They're dead...they don't need the money. I mean, these are the super rich, why am I concerned with how much money they have again?


Wrong!!

The Estate Tax does not hurt the super rich. Think about it. If your that rich one last extra tax doesn't even make a difference. AND the super rich can afford teams upon teams of lawyers to help them get around the Estate Tax.

I live in Vermont, and I can give you an example of the Estate Tax hurting normal Americans. I met this guy back in May and he was complaining about how the Estate Tax was going to ruin his life.

His family has owned a dairy farm in Vermont for generations, but, when his father dies he won't be able to afford the Estate Tax on the farm. So, he will have to sell the family's pride and joy to a big company that can afford the tax!

His farm is worth under a million bucks! And the big Hood Milk Co. will be happy to grab up his farm at a low price!

-- Boat

[edit on 2-8-2006 by Boatphone]

[edit on 2-8-2006 by Boatphone]

[edit on 2-8-2006 by Boatphone]



posted on Aug, 2 2006 @ 09:13 PM
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See the reason government works to ease the plight of the rich is simple, and it all has to do with the veyr nature of capitalism. See rich people are rich because they have many MANY people buying their product/services, or they sell directly to the government. The rich people who make their empire from the people generate such an enormous volume of tax dollars for the government, that they have to pay them back in kind with reduced taxes to them.



posted on Aug, 2 2006 @ 09:22 PM
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Originally posted by DYepes
See the reason government works to ease the plight of the rich is simple, and it all has to do with the veyr nature of capitalism. See rich people are rich because they have many MANY people buying their product/services, or they sell directly to the government. The rich people who make their empire from the people generate such an enormous volume of tax dollars for the government, that they have to pay them back in kind with reduced taxes to them.


Ahh...

Look the rich are taxed far more than the poor are. But back to the Estate Tax, eh?

-- Boat



posted on Aug, 2 2006 @ 09:30 PM
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The dollar amount is obviously higher, because of the fact they have more. However in relation to percent of income (earned or passive) on the individual, I believe the non-rich rakes in less at the end of the day.



posted on Aug, 2 2006 @ 10:38 PM
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Originally posted by DYepes
The dollar amount is obviously higher, because of the fact they have more. However in relation to percent of income (earned or passive) on the individual, I believe the non-rich rakes in less at the end of the day.


I'm sorry but that is incorrect.



The top fifth of U.S. households (with incomes above $84,000) remain perennial targets of class-warfare enmity, but these families perform a third of all labor in the economy, contain the best educated and most productive workers, and provide a disproportionate share of the investment needed to create jobs and spur economic growth.

Nearly all are married-couple families, many with two or more earners. Far from shirking the tax burden, they pay 82.5 percent of total federal income taxes and two-thirds of federal taxes overall.

The bottom quintile pays 1.1 percent of total federal taxes.


Link to Information.



When you look at the numbers you can see the truth.

-- Boat

[edit on 2-8-2006 by Boatphone]



posted on Aug, 2 2006 @ 11:28 PM
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This bill is a slap in the face to the working person. To attach a minimum wage increase(that affects millions of people a little) to such a huge tax break (that effects relatively few a great deal), is a slap in the face to the working person in this country. I must admire the Machiavellian politics of the GOP, I can just see the adds this November accusing Dems of voting against the minimum wage (their issue), while at the same time bragging about getting rid of the "Death Tax" (as the Repub marketers have branded it) to thier constituents.

I would love to see minimum wage hikes tied to congressional pay raises. Couldn't you just see the Gentleman/Gentlewoman from wherever having to explain to their corporate donors that after all the millions that said corporate donor gave said congressman the congressman went and cost the company millions in labor costs for a pay raise for himself, on second thought that would probably only be effective in a Republican controlled congress as the Dems would see such a proposition as a win-win situation.



posted on Aug, 3 2006 @ 09:06 AM
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The death tax is stupid. My DH just took all of our savings and started his own business. So far he has 5 paid employees and about 250 independent reps. He is taking the risk, he is working about 90 hours a week and he has taken a severe pay cut in order to reinvest in the company. If this thing works, and we become wealthy, we will be taxed on that money as earnings, we will be taxed on that money when we buy goods and services with that money, we will be taxed when we start importing goods. If an individual is willing to put his home and kids' college money on the line and work his rear end off while providing jobs to other people why should he be punished for his success? There should be some reward for risk taking.



posted on Aug, 3 2006 @ 12:12 PM
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Originally posted by stanstheman
If an individual is willing to put his home and kids' college money on the line and work his rear end off while providing jobs to other people why should he be punished for his success? There should be some reward for risk taking.


Stanstheman,
I like everything you are saying, but untill the Government of this county overhauls the taxing and fee paying and what ever else you want to call the way they manage to squeeze just under fifty percent of the income from those of us who half to work for a liveing I will opose any of these tax breaks that are just going to effect people with over six hundred thousand dallers.



posted on Aug, 3 2006 @ 12:27 PM
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if I remember correctly, the last time we had this go round in this country I heard the same arguments. It turns out that many people of lower income were argueing for tax breaks and it turns out that they weren't even paying taxes! They either didn't pay or got their entire withholding refunded to them.

I agree that people should be able to make a good living and keep a substantial amount of their money but you can't have it both ways. If you want the gov't to provide services for the population someone has to pay for it! Like Boatphone showed, the people paying the most money into federal taxes are the wealthy. What was it like 82%?



posted on Aug, 3 2006 @ 12:40 PM
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with the value of real estate way over inflated, many more people will suffer the estate tax. There is nothing worse than having to sell off a property simply to pay the taxes but it happens quite a bit and more often than not, it is not the super rich who suffer this issue. Remember, the so called "super rich," as stated above, usually plan ahead with good estate planning and wind up using the available tools to minimize the estate taxes while passing along as much of their estate as possible, to their heirs.

take the elderly couple living in NYC who purchased their apartment in the 50's and have lived there ever since. That apartment might be worth 3 million dollars today. They have $200,000 in savings and pensions to last them the rest of their lives, lets say 10 years. let's say they get killed together. the estate is valued at 3.2 million (assuming no debt or expenses of the estate). The tax on that is roughly half. The executor needs to come up with 1.6 million dollars to pay the taxes. So the apartment is sold. The heirs get some coin for sure but the apartment is no longer in the family.

now look at it with slightly different angle. let's say, instead of an apartment, they owned a 4 floor building that they purchased in the same year. They lived on one floor and rented out the other three, producing enough income to live off of. Assuming the same values of real estate and savings, the heirs will lose a very valuable piece of income producing property all because they needed the cash to pay the taxes.

This topic was covered a little while back here on ATS. With the increases in real estate values, it's the middle man who's bound to get screwed, not the poor, who don't need to worry about the tax and not the very rich, who will be proactive and figure out ways to pass the bulk of their estate off to their heirs. It's the rest of us that suffer and changing the estate tax laws are essential or the mid level wealth will pay the price.



posted on Aug, 3 2006 @ 02:11 PM
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Originally posted by Crakeur
...now look at it with slightly different angle. let's say, instead of an apartment, they owned a 4 floor building that they purchased in the same year. They lived on one floor and rented out the other three, producing enough income to live off of. Assuming the same values of real estate and savings, the heirs will lose a very valuable piece of income producing property all because they needed the cash to pay the taxes.


Crakeur,

You really hit the nail on the head here. But, unlike the previous example of a dairy farm, the income-producing part of the equation is not as important really as the sale of the building.

See, in the dairy farm example, the heir could have worked his butt off on that farm, could even be the sole reason it succeeded so well as to be worth taxing under the estate tax. All it would take is the owner/parent to die unexpectedly. Dairy farmers aren't well-known as superb estate planners, right? Sudden death, car crash, whatever, of the owners and the heir is cut out of his inheritance by Uncle Sam.

In your example, at least a lifetime of work will not have gone into developing the value of the property. However, the scenario you lay out of the apartment building is as agregious as that of the dairy farm inasmuch as there are residents in the building when it gets sold. What happens to 4-story apartment buildings that date from the 40's or 50's in, say, Manhattan, once they are sold to developers to cover the estate tax? One thing is absolutely for sure, the residents are removed.

Harte




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