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Speculatory Paradigm Shift. A view of Reality.

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posted on Aug, 5 2006 @ 07:17 PM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
Er, are you claiming you went to other planets.. and they are "100% abundant with life" .... Because .. I would have to assume your nuts. Sorry, but it is a big claim.


I think what he is saying is that he has been earthbound and therefore, 100% of the planets he has visited have life. Certainly, a review of the solar system would suggest that not all planets have observable life.




posted on Aug, 5 2006 @ 07:18 PM
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Originally posted by cpdaman
does anyone find it odd in the montauk and philadelphia experiments that they reported they could not "pick up a tangible future beyond 2012 AD there is a very abrupt wall with nothing on the other side...





I don't find it odd. I find it unbelievable.



posted on Aug, 5 2006 @ 07:35 PM
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Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
WOW.

It was not my intention to prove or disprove the possibility of time travel into the past, or future for that matter. Since we seemingly as of yet do not know for sure. It was my intention to have ourselves analyze what possible results of the intentionality of the collective consciousnesses of the universe/multiverse, and the how cosmic politics would be effected, whether we were aware of such cosmic politics or not.






So the question is, all the time travelers would have travelled back to the beginning of time and would all get together and have a political meeting. what would be the results of that meeting? Here is what might happen. Not only would they travel back to the very beginning but they would travel back to before the big bang and see what was there. This would be the time that could be called, "before the foundation of the worlds". The politics would be going on in that time frame as well, if there is such a thing as time in that place.



posted on Aug, 5 2006 @ 07:56 PM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
I think we would strongly consider going back to witness the big bang, or aspects of it, going as far back as we could.


From what vantage point would one view the Big Bang?

[edit on 2006/8/5 by GradyPhilpott]


*splaps forehead* Doh!

Never even crossed my mind... knew there was a paradox here. Good observation Grady.


AD:

Thanks for the compliment... I've read quite a bit but, as a layman I can't say I really *understand* any it, I just know a little bit about the various ideas/hypotheses. I couldn;t explain the nuts-bolts of something like M-theory if I had a gun to my head lol.

The FTL versus near/close to had to do with relativity right? ie, you'd need infinite mass to go FTL (E=MC2) = paradox therefore no FTL travel (excluding 'bending space' or some other side-step). You can't go from point A to point B FTL if you have to cover the distance in-between. Is that close? However information could do it FTL because it has no mass, true? Maybe that's the key... sorta like your 'transporter' you brought up earlier.

We couldn't travel back there but information could... now how could that be useful?



posted on Aug, 5 2006 @ 09:14 PM
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Originally posted by Rren

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
I think we would strongly consider going back to witness the big bang, or aspects of it, going as far back as we could.


From what vantage point would one view the Big Bang?

[edit on 2006/8/5 by GradyPhilpott]


*splaps forehead* Doh!

Never even crossed my mind... knew there was a paradox here. Good observation Grady.



From what vantage point would one view the Big Bang?

Why limit reality to the confines of percieved matter within our universe.

I think it is an assumption to decide the birth of this universe could not be observed. What lies outside the confines of the universe? Well if you started travelling now it may take nearly an eternity to find that answer.

OR.....

If one could travel back to the density from which this universe began, one could theoretically move 10 feet to the left and be outside the known universe.



posted on Aug, 5 2006 @ 09:24 PM
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Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher

Originally posted by Rren

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
I think we would strongly consider going back to witness the big bang, or aspects of it, going as far back as we could.


From what vantage point would one view the Big Bang?

[edit on 2006/8/5 by GradyPhilpott]


*splaps forehead* Doh!

Never even crossed my mind... knew there was a paradox here. Good observation Grady.




From what vantage point would one view the Big Bang?

Why limit reality to the confines of percieved matter within our universe.

I think it is an assumption to decide the birth of this universe could not be observed. What lies outside the confines of the universe? Well if you started travelling now it may take nearly an eternity to find that answer.

OR.....

If one could travel back to the density from which this universe began, one could theoretically move 10 feet to the left and be outside the known universe.


I hear what your saying... but: 1)By definition there's no such thing as "outside" this universe which also means that 2)There's no 10ft to the left either plus 3)if all the matter/energy in the universe was packed into such a small space there'd be no surving it (your talking about a black hole almost as big as the universe is now (maybe the same?) You don't get out of that... you certainly can't witness it. Physically atleast. But perhaps information could be used to influence the past and I can do that from here instead of ten feet from the most powerful destructive thing nature could ever create.



posted on Aug, 5 2006 @ 09:28 PM
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grasshopper that was 40 to 60 years ago that they deemed in these time travel experiments that they could not go past 2012

when u say unbeleivable, do u mean WOW that's amazing , sarcasm, or a lie

i mean can't anyone else put the pieces together enough to see the puzzle


transformation of consciousness= higher truths revealed= opportunity for enlightenment=reaching higher levels of planes (metaphor for a heaven)

next few years;

people figure out # such as the lies and deception in the world, gov't is not going to give up it's power, gov't anticipates this causing lots of unruley people (which would be dangerous to not only the gov't power structure but also me, and sets up fema camps and trys to round these people up. will it work who knows alot of those in the militiary might be able to see the revelations of higher truths, i hope and the chaotic people better snap out of it fast



posted on Aug, 5 2006 @ 09:29 PM
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I don't want to give anyone the impression that I know anything substantive about this subject, but in fact, we can view the big bang from where we are now and Hubble was the first to do so. When we look into space, we are looking at the past and it is a form of time travel. Technically, I guess, everything we hear and see is from the past, as it takes time for both light and sound to travel.

But, when someone speaks of time travel in the tradition of Wells and Titor, I'm pretty much left with a really empty feeling. Not because the possibility of such is not fascinating, but because I don't have to consider the possibility for long before I encounter the dreaded paradoxes.

If we travel in time physically, then we not only have to traverse time, but space as well. If I want to go back even a minute, the earth must be in the position it was one minute ago or else everything will be wrong and, furthermore, the universe is expanding, so that complicates things even further. How could a machine, as Titor claimed and Wells dreamed, transport one person back in time when the earth is no longer in the spot it was even one minute ago, much less 50 years ago?

If you look at old pictures of yourself, you will note that there have been many changes over time. You made your entry into the world at roughly 8 pounds and maybe a couple of feet long and your skin as smooth as, well, you know. Now, in my case, I'm 6'2", weigh over 200 pounds, and the skin has weathered a bit.

Where is that baby who made his entrance into the atmosphere in 1949? Well, he's right here typing on this keyboard and getting ready to send an electromagnetic signal into that collection of hardware we call cyberspace. I am that baby and even though my acts may reverberate throughout time, eventually, my remains will rot in the ground like everything else that has lived.

I would be very much interested in hearing how all that could be reversed, for lack of a better word, so that I would be the person I was at any point in my life and how the earth and the myriad celestial bodies could be positioned to the exact points they were at that time.

I have to wonder if the desire to traverse time has something to do with our difficulty resolving our own mortality--our difficulty coming to terms with the inevitable. In nature, there is always renewal. After the Winter comes the Spring. Everything we see is cyclical. Why not time?

Time probably is cyclical, even though I cannot conceive such a thing. There will be a time when the elements that form me will belong to some other living being and there may be a place for the ethereal energy that seems to transcend the "mortal coil," but as far as the physical me is concerned, it will falter, wither and decay, never to be accessible again, except as component parts, just as I cannot once again become the fetus who made his debut some 57 years ago.



Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall.
Humpty Dumpty had a great fall.
All the king's horses and all the king's men
Couldn't put Humpty together again.

en.wikipedia.org...



[edit on 2006/8/6 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Aug, 5 2006 @ 09:44 PM
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Originally posted by Rren


I hear what your saying... but: 1)By definition there's no such thing as "outside" this universe which also means that 2)There's no 10ft to the left either plus 3)if all the matter/energy in the universe was packed into such a small space there'd be no surving it (your talking about a black hole almost as big as the universe is now (maybe the same?) You don't get out of that... you certainly can't witness it. Physically atleast. But perhaps information could be used to influence the past and I can do that from here instead of ten feet from the most powerful destructive thing nature could ever create.


But if it were a black hole, by your logic there would be no energy outside of it, therefor no grtavitational pull outside the singularity could exist.

However, you bring up some interesting points.

Perhaps if we could get past trying to explain away how many obsticles there are in the quest for time travel, and assume it could be done ..... how would this effect the intentionality of advanced species throughout our celestrial neighborhood.

To put things in a different perspective .....

In 1900: 99% of all humans were still dependant upon beasts of burden and horse-drawn carrages for transportation.

In 1969: Humanity put a footprint on the moon.

Try to absorb some level of humility and consider that there is at least 1 world in our galaxy with intelligent life that has been around far longer than us.

There are planets in our universe a billion years older than ours.

Stealing a page from Stanton Friedman:
Let's look at a planet a billion years older. Let's be conservative and say that they have only been advancing technologically for a million years longer than us. Let's be more conservative and say they have only been advancing technilogically for 100,000 years. Let's even be more conservative and say they have only been advancing technologically for 10,000 years.

We (humanity) began the mass production of automibiles with the introduction of the assembly line and the Ford Model-T in 1902.

67 years after the introduction of the car on a mass scale mankind was on the moon.

Now add 9,933 years and try your best to imagine the technology available.



posted on Aug, 5 2006 @ 09:57 PM
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I guess the concept I'm dancing around with is that i don't think it is always in our benefit to attempt to discount the probabilities and variables that exist when discussing ideas that we are both ignorant and naive about. Just because humanity has yet to fully understand the fabric of space-time, does not negate nor void the possibilities.

Accepting that time travel in either direction is feasable, how would this cause inter-galactic governments to act?



posted on Aug, 5 2006 @ 11:37 PM
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Hey ES don't get the impression I'm an expert or that I think I am. I couldn't possibly "debunk" any of this. I'm just trying to picture it in my head... We seem to have two different ideas on the nature of the universe. So I ask/point-out this, that or the other so I can understand your perspective. I am not claiming to have the truth... but some of these issues are important. Some of this stuff is pretty well established also. Where would your actual past be right now? The nature of the universe influences the nature of time travel. Anyway man I'll quit hi-jacking your topic after I answer your post, promise.





Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher


But if it were a black hole, by your logic there would be no energy outside of it, therefor no grtavitational pull outside the singularity could exist.


Again.... there's no outside. Even with all those multiverses (should they exist) they are not "out there" somewhere. These other dimensions (or what-have-you) are microscopic. You've got to go 'in' not 'out' [Quantum] They're closer to your skin than your clothes are to you now (heard/read that somewhere can't remember source ATM). My 'head image' of the universe has edges too... it's like trying to understand infinity. I'm tryin' man, I am.



However, you bring up some interesting points.

Perhaps if we could get past trying to explain away how many obsticles there are in the quest for time travel, and assume it could be done ..... how would this effect the intentionality of advanced species throughout our celestrial neighborhood.


That's the rub aint it, assuming. I've got to get some sleep but I'll give it another go in the morning.




Try to absorb some level of humility and consider that there is at least 1 world in our galaxy with intelligent life that has been around far longer than us.


C'mon man is that necessary? You think belief in alien life has something to do with humility. I've got no issues with it, doesn't make it true, doesn't make my failure to imagine a completely different reality based on hubris either. It shouldn't be easy to shift a paradigm. Otherwise why have one in the first place. I have no reason to believe aliens visit/ed Earth but that doesn't mean in the entire universe we are the only life. Perhaps no civilization has ever advanced to achieve interstellar travel or time travel "anything is possible"



posted on Aug, 6 2006 @ 12:22 AM
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Originally posted by Rren
We seem to have two different ideas on the nature of the universe.


I'm beginning to believe that there are as many universes as there are observers.

Remember that old question:"If a tree falls in the woods, and no one is there to here it, does it make a sound?"

Well, expanding upon the same precepts, i put forth another rhetorical question:
Does TRUTH exist seperate from any observation of measure? Is observation a pre-requisite of Truth?

It was just a thought i had.


.... Anyway man I'll quit hi-jacking your topic after I answer your post, promise.



You have most certainly not offended me, and your contributions are most welcome. This thread is not mine alone, it is our shared resource. I do not for a second think you are hijacking my thread. I am just trying to avoid the arguements about time travel. For me the point is mute. Because we as individual observers measure it seperately. Depending upon upon if the observer is optimistic or not, most will say it is either possible or impossible.




it's like trying to understand infinity.



Exactly how i feel. Which is the main reason i just wanted to move beyond it and consider what ramifications of what causes and effects would exist in the world(s) of intelligent observers.



.

I've got to get some sleep but I'll give it another go in the morning.



Goodnight, and please come back. I do enjoy your input.





Try to absorb some level of humility and consider that there is at least 1 world in our galaxy with intelligent life that has been around far longer than us.


C'mon man is that necessary? You think belief in alien life has something to do with humility.



In some people's perceptions, yes i do. Aside from Fear i can not single out many other sources of why much of humanity is in a state of denial about the prospect of extra-terrestrial visitations.



Maybe the milkyway is like the ghetto of the universe and nobody wants to hang here.


That gave me a good laugh, thanks. I wonder what the galactic version of Monopoly looks like, and how much is the Milky Way, even with 2 Hotels?



posted on Aug, 6 2006 @ 12:42 AM
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Far out! Some of these posts are an "event horizon" themselves for creative thinking! And..............."Maybe the milkyway is like the ghetto of the universe and nobody wants to hang here" (I love it).
Maybe like so many in the ghetto, we're too ignorant and distracted to see our way out...where's the middle? Really? Or are you just playing it safe? Please keep it going, to hell with sleep - learn us man, learn us!



posted on Aug, 7 2006 @ 01:30 AM
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This is a little off the current discussion, and i know i have yet to compliment and comment on some of the points made earlier, but i think i had a small epiphany I'd like to share:

If time travel into the past becomes a technology available to humanity at any time in our future, one thing is for sure, it will only be the future we create (by the choices we make now) that will be the visitors from the future.

This would make us co-conspiritors of any conspiracy concerning time travelers from the future. (If it were to be true).

Edited to Add:

What possible motives would need to exist for the future of humanity (or other species) to feel a necessity to journey back, even if it meant they could never return?


[edit on 7-8-2006 by Esoteric Teacher]



posted on Aug, 7 2006 @ 04:31 AM
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I had another thought about this pandora's box of time travel.

If humanity or any individuals within choose to pursue a viable method of travelling back in time (if only intent on observing, ie watcher, then will we choose to apply such theories, and put them into practice?

And if the answer is yes, that we do choose to travel back in time, then that pre-determined choice to apply time travel to our experience.... well then, if both possible, and sought after, then what we do in the future will have already happened, and then we will have already done what we have not yet done. And perhaps this very intent to understand time invokes the curiosity of plausible alien curiousity and intervention, out of a need to respond to our own future trespasses against other worlds. For instance the introduction of technology from our future to prepare us technologically for a day in our future. This is of course mere conjecture and speculation, but worthy of consideration as to the necessity of cosmic visitation from our celestrial neighbors, if only meant as a pre-emptive need.



posted on Aug, 7 2006 @ 05:16 AM
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Alright, yet one more thought.

Even if technology existed concerning time travel and aspects of it, would the general public know it? Or would it be classified?



posted on Aug, 7 2006 @ 06:16 AM
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Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
Alright, yet one more thought.

Even if technology existed concerning time travel and aspects of it, would the general public know it? Or would it be classified?


It would be classified! Like a shot! Hushed up and swept under the carpet. Who knows for how long. Possibly for a loooooooong time. That type of technology would be considered too dangerous regarding all the unknown potential paradox scenarios. Too dangerous for the guy in the street, especially if the tech served other purposes that the NWO could take advantage of.

I believe the stories that says our governments are probably 40-60 years ahead in technology of where we think they are. I believe we are already well down the line of anti gravity and/or propulsion systems that the public think don't yet exist. No, I have no proof, this is an opinion.



posted on Aug, 7 2006 @ 07:00 AM
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Originally posted by Prote

I believe the stories that says our governments are probably 40-60 years ahead in technology of where we think they are. I believe we are already well down the line of anti gravity and/or propulsion systems that the public think don't yet exist. No, I have no proof, this is an opinion.



Your opinion is probably a conservative perception of the truth. I feel extremely safe saying technology has probably surpassed anything the general public will be knowledgible of for at least another 80 years, or possibly far longer.

I had another thought .....

It is apparently measurable that anything that is currently percieved as Science Fact, was Science Fiction first. All achievements in Science were first introduced as Science Fiction. And remained Science Fiction in all minds, exept for the one who knew what question to ask and answer.

So, if the inquiries that are the basis for Science Fiction are a pre-requisite for Science Fact are coupled with the truth that we have been transmitting into space for decades ..... then aliens that could decipher our crude languages would most certainly be told by our own admissions through our media (TV, movies, etc) that the idea of time travel has entered our minds. This alone could be motivation for coming to Earth. Not to mention the possibility that encoded light (ie radio waves) transmitted from us could enter a wormhole in space and be ejected into the past and recieved by aliens who were listening hundred's of thousands, if not millions, of years ago. By this measure (if plausible) Aliens could have known about us long before we even existed.

Does anyone think to ask similiar questions, or is my brand of thinking way too far outside the box for some to consider before attempting to debunk the plausibility of the variables?



posted on Aug, 8 2006 @ 06:24 AM
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Perhaps this thread is losing steam.

But, i'll tac on one more thought, regardless....

If time is not the one way street we beleive it to be, then is it not possible that a reply to our invitation came before we sent it?

Voyager.



posted on Aug, 8 2006 @ 06:43 AM
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IMO time is not a one way street. Everything happens at the same moment. It's just our focus that shifts, which creates the illusion of time. When you're astral projecting or dreaming, time can pass by at a totally different pace than in physical reality.

Just a little metaphysics in the equation there...


[edit on 8-8-2006 by TheBandit795]



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