Okay....9/11 was an act committed by Islamic Terrorists. What Israel is going right now is a battle with Islamic Terrorists.

There ya go: 2+2=4

Didnt really think i would have to spell out the connection but Americans are sick of Muslim, Islamic extremist terrorists and we will support whoever is going to have to fight them. Right now its Israel, tomorrow it may be us.

Comprende?

Snazzy, now just suppose you were born an Arab and you didn't follow the Christian bible, but because you were brought up to believe your holy book was the right holy book, you believed that everyone else was reading from the wrong book.

Holy Jebus! You'd be going to hell, and you wouldn't even know it!

Gee, I wonder who wrote the old testament? Could it be the Jews, could that be why God, according to them favours them? If your city wrote a bible, would it not favour the inhabitants of your city?

My point being IS, That whoever, or whatever race, culture, region writes the bible, or a book or war manual or whatever, it will tend to favour the authors and make every one else less important.
The Jews wrote the bible, they are the chosen ones; go figure

So snaz, if you are going to read the bible, at least read it logically and from other perspectives and don't be blinded by 'the light', I said light because you think you see that, but if there is a god, he would see you are blind, because you do not see with your own eyes.
Open your eyes, look around you and think hard!

Considering that the major reason we've been targeted by Islamist fanatics is the fact that we support Israel no matter what they do, consider me unmoved by the 9-11 argument.

Israel is essentially a western colony in the Middle East.
Why the US feels the need to support colonies carved from other people's land, at the cost of billions of dollars and thousands of our own citizens lives, in the name of a one-way "alliance" from which we gain exactly nothing, is beyond me.

Let the religious fanatics in the Middle East kill eachother - the rest of the species will be better off without them anyway. We sure as hell don't need to be supporting one group of fanatics over another.

[edit on 8/1/06 by xmotex]

Why do (most) Americans instinctively back Israel?

Good programming.

Originally posted by Toadmund
Snazzy, now just suppose you were born an Arab and you didn't follow the Christian bible, but because you were brought up to believe your holy book was the right holy book, you believed that everyone else was reading from the wrong book.

Holy Jebus! You'd be going to hell, and you wouldn't even know it!

Gee, I wonder who wrote the old testament? Could it be the Jews, could that be why God, according to them favours them? If your city wrote a bible, would it not favour the inhabitants of your city?

My point being IS, That whoever, or whatever race, culture, region writes the bible, or a book or war manual or whatever, it will tend to favour the authors and make every one else less important.
The Jews wrote the bible, they are the chosen ones; go figure

So snaz, if you are going to read the bible, at least read it logically and from other perspectives and don't be blinded by 'the light', I said light because you think you see that, but if there is a god, he would see you are blind, because you do not see with your own eyes.
Open your eyes, look around you and think hard!

wow this one is gonna be fun .. first off there are ppl in the world who have left islam to becoem Christian. I dont' care for your boycott Israel signature too much either. and the best part, God gave ppl free will. what that means is HE gave you the right to believe or not to believe. If you steal something and get caught, you'll probably goto jail.If you disobey God, you will goto HIS version of jail, which is Hell, UNLESS you ask for forgiveness. I have faith in God and i know that ppl will persecute me for my beliefs which is fine coz He said that would happen and that not to worry. i could honestly care less what any of you believe about me, but your lack of faith in God disturbs me. and as far as Jews being the Chosen ones, they are and Jesus sent Jesus to help ppl like yourself toad. I know that i am going ot Heaven coz i believe and i understand that there are many things that satan will use to attempt to sway me, such as yourself toad. And as Jesus said in one of His teachings, get thee behind me satan!!!

Originally posted by Snazuolu
I personally support Israel for religious matters.

Obviously, judging from your posts around here.

I am christian, but i do know that Israel is Gods chosen land

Israel didn't exist until the 1940's

for HIS chosen ppl the Jews.

Who told that? did god call you last night and reveal that to you?

I have read the Bible enough to know that it doesnt' matter if you're jewish or christian, or even a gentile, Israel is Gods holy land and should be treated as such.

I'd like to see where in teh bible, god says 'Israel is my chosen land'.

IMO also God will allow Israel to receive blessings for doing the right thing or punished for doing the wrong things. He punished the Jews in ww2 with the Holocaust, he is currently punishing Sharon for giving up HIS land. After the Jews punishment was over with after ww2, he let the good ppl remaining return to Israel and become a state.

ok, wiat...flaw.

Jews were in Palestine before Israel was created. Explain that for me. If there were ALREADY Jews living in "god's land", why pour more there? Is god to naive to realize this, and so we had to put up barriers, so he could tell the diference?

I support and always will support Israel, coz i know there is a plan at work here, and i know that 1 day ALL nations will come against Israel, and i believe it will include the US in this plan.

So.......what if all the Jews were killed, and the Muslims took over Israel. Would you still support 'Israel'...after all, it's just the name of a country, right?

I still will support Israel. Theres no hokey pokey childrens stories in the Bible either. As far as the Jews and christians being at odds over Jesus death, I personally thank Jesus for dying on the cross every single day. He died on that cross so that i may live eternally.

He never said that. Paul did. You're a pauline, not a christian if you bielieve that trash.

I do not look at it as the Jews are the bad guys or whatever, i know that is why Jesus was sent here to earth, to die for our sins and make it so myself and my family can all be allowed in Heaven.

Heaven? What's heaven? What's hell for that matter? cuz that's all brought about by Paul and his Hellinistic up-bringing.

Dear God, i want to thank you right now for sending your only son to die on the cross for my sins. Amen!!

A prayer? Well isn't that obnoxious. What if everyone did that?

AVE SATANA!

Hail, Satan,
Lord of Darkness,
King of Hell,
Ruler of the Earth,
God of this World!

God Who invites us to become as gods!
Muse of our civilization,
Dread Enemy of its tyrant god!
Satan, mighty Liberator,
Bearer of true Light!

God of our flesh,
God of our minds,
God of our innermost Will!

O mighty Lord Satan,
Teach us to become strong and wise!
Teach us to vanquish the enemies
of our freedom and well-being!

REGE SATANA!



It's insane to support a country because of their majority religious belief. Poppy-cock I say!!!

Snaz: I dunno if you read what I said before, but the country you so love Israel to destroy has a 40% christian population, your beloved Israel hates everyone but a specific group of the Israeli population.

Then on subject. The entire west, not just the US, all support the Jews, be it to atone for past misdoings, pitty for what happend to them in the past, or be it because they conquered and took that lands that happen to hold the most holy places for all 3 major religions and live there and are expected to protect those holy places.

Thing is, one thing everyone has in common, they are turning to become truely anti-semetic.

Everyone hates the Arabs and Muslims, who in that region actualy are semites, while the current day jewish people living in Israel are only partialy comprised of people who actualy have their origins in the region.

Israel and the Jewish people all over the world cry out and bitch and moan about Anti-Semetism all the time, use that word whenever someone even looks at them crosseyed yet they love nothing more then putting gas on the fire whenever they see the oportunity when it comes to the hatred of Muslims and Arabs.

Heck, Israel and alot of Jews are Anti-Semetic too, a good part of the validable semetic population of the world are the very people Israel is fighting against and has been fighting ever since they stole land from these people.

I've come up with three reasons, from what I have observed.

1) Strategic interests in the area to counterbalance all other nations in the area.

2) To help insure the fulfillment of biblical prophecy that many Christian fundamentalists believe is going to happen within the next 50 years.

3) Holocaust guilt.

Originally posted by Strangerous
This always strikes me when we discuss the ME - the majority of Americans seem to instinctively back Israel.

3. US fundamental christian groups who see the establishment of a greater Isreal as fundamental to the second coming of christ (apparently it's in the bible so they support Israel despite Israel being predominantly a jewish state) - this was covered on the BBC recently and it was news to me.

Is the reason most Americans seem to support Israel, fundamentally and seemingly with little room for debate, one of the above or are there other reasons as well?

I think this is the main reason for the rabbid support from some circles. Most people are not interested in politics so they don't have an informed view on most topics.

Christians don't support Israel because they like it but because they are tired of suffering for the return of Christ.

I think that Jewish interests should be aware of this, but maybe they are both PLAYING each other for all I know.

So snaz, what are you doing to bring people into the Christian faith?
Is it not your work, as one of gods sheep to bring more people into the flock?

What are you doing?

I can tell you, you are blinded by religion to the point where you are actually driving people away from the faith, not bringing anyone in at all, when you say that you, you and you are going to hell, how are you spreading the word of the lord?

What has driven people like me away from religion? People who spew hate, ignorance and intolerance, that's who, sometimes I find religious people to be THEE dumbest people on earth!

I don't think Jesus, if he is the son of god is appreciating that one bit (dumb ignorant christians). Am I afraid to criticise? NO, you know why? Because if there is a god, in gods infinite wisdom, he/she/it will see that I did not become one of those who drive people away, that I 'see' and that I try to be objective and that I can use my own mind that was given to me, I use my FREE WILL, which apparently was a gift, a gift that not enough people use.
I'd rather not be religious than to make religion a fundamentalistic laughing stock that makes anybody that wishes to worship Christ into blabbering NUT-JOBS.

Again, what are you doing? As of now, and take it from me, and from the people who responded to your posts, you have driven those people away, when people around you criticise your fundamentalistic beliefs.

You are NOT doing gods work! You are spreading the 'BAD' word, not the good word.

So, who you say is the agent of SATAN?

Ask any athiest or agnostic (me) why they became that way, 85% of them were converted to non or reduced belief by Christians.

Are those Christians doing the devils work?
They must be!

THe media and goverment has a lot to do with it. The jewish lobby is notoriously powerful in the United States. Most congressmen would not dare voice their opinion against isreal because they will be immediately labeled an anti-semite and loose precious campaign funding from the jewish lobby. For example, during the yum kippur war, when the arabs were trying to regain territory isreal took in 1967, the isreali ambassador to the U.S. threatened to mobilize american jews against the nixon administration if they did not help and supply them with arms. Of course kissinger and nixon started sending huge amounts of arms.

Another possible reason for wide spread support is that there are many evangical christians. But i highly doubt the common american has a hardset belief in what they preach. The fact that most muslims are seen as being part of the terrorist problem, instinctively naive americans will probably throw there support behind isreal.

instead of "americans" supporting isrial it should be the west supporting isrial.

for myself religion has very little if anything to do with it. a lot of it is guilt for the way the jewish peoples have been mistreated over the centuries. the holocaust is just a fairly recent big thing that happened to them. lets not even totaly blaim the germans for it. the jews were not even granted citizenship by many countries untill fairly recent times (i think arround the 1800's).

but a big reason for most (rightfully) that i know it has a lot to do with the ignoreing of what was happening dureing ww2. that was the reason that many in the west let them take over the original piece of isrial afterwords.

now as for the palistinians who were misplaced afterwards, they shouldn't blaim isrial for their land and homes being taken away but put the blaim where it rightfully belongs on those who tried to destroy isrial and lost so badly that they ended up looseing the "disputed territories". so i have little sympathy for said palistinians since they blaim the wrong people. as for isrial many myself included support them because of all the terrorisim they face daily. they have faced major trials but through tenasity and sometimes even a little larciny keep holding on.

I would have to agree, it's because they're seen as allies on the war on terrorism.

In my opinion, that threat has been exaggerated, but for Israel, who is bombed by Hezbollah rockets daily, the threat is very real.

The sad thing about Israel and Palestine is that they are like two slaves fighting over the actions of the same master. The Israeli's are victims of Western fascist anti-semitism and Palestinian's are victim's of Western colonialism and opportunism.

As for Israel as a victim of terrorism, remember that the United States lost more citizens in one day than Israel has in the last couple of decades, and possibly since it's founding - it's kind of hard to find firm figures before the 80's.

And that terrorist attack was largely in response to our support for Israel.

The Israeli's are victims of Western fascist anti-semitism and Palestinian's are victim's of Western colonialism and opportunism.

I agree with that. I've often thought of it like abused child syndrome carried across to a national stage, where the child abused by their parent goes on to abuse it's own children. The Jews suffered at the hands of the Nazis and the Palestinians and Lebanese now suffer at the hands of the Israelis.

It's not hard to see how the massive genocide of the Holocaust shaped Israel's national character, and that their way of going completely overboard in the face of limited threats is a result of it.

There's actually very simple reason why we support Israel, that's because they are our ally who have to deal with terrorists on a daily basis!

Originally posted by laiguana
There's actually very simple reason why we support Israel, that's because they are our ally who have to deal with terrorists on a daily basis!

Yes most of whom they helped to create. Self-induced necessity. The idea to keep the idea going that they are necessary to America's survival to some people was quite ingenious. They can arrest anyone at will and without question or evidence, they can actually assasinate political figures at will and without evidence or trial, they can in the process of seeking out terrorists kill innocent civilians without question or investigation .

What happened to us here in the USA? Since when did we condone such things and allow it without question? We as a nation would offer sympathy to citizens of the former USSR and encourage people to fight for their freedom ,jump walls and escape imprisonment. We used to denounce South American dictators that used torture as methods of extracting information and pacifying the citizenry, we would denounce the methodology of Secret Police and harrassment of humans when they would arrest people without cause or evidence or even a trial.

Did it go from giving them free run to hunt down and kill those who caused them to suffer in WWII , to include those they percieve as a threat to their existence wether imagined or true?

How do we allow them to just shoot people with Missiles!!? Knock down peoples houses!? Shoot innocent civilians just because they were in the way!? We never even bother to ask for proof, nor do they offer it. No video surveilance, no recordings of any kind. We just go by their word as though it is gospel! "Oh, he was a terrorist" should not suffice as evidence enough to continue allowing people to die on a daily basis and to be using equipment that we have bought and paid for with our hard work and blood and that people can associate us with. Its our responsibility to be sure thats whats being done is fair ,balanced and justified.



Pie

Nice post, PieMan. But for me the best one yet was whoever boiled it down to "good programming!"

Originally posted by rich23
Nice post, PieMan. But for me the best one yet was whoever boiled it down to "good programming!"

Thanks I guess it all boils down to that


Pie