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OP/ED Stop preaching already, I get it.

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posted on Jul, 31 2006 @ 07:51 PM
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I understand the complex nature of the Middle East. I understand the potential geopolitical chess matches currently in play. I understand the media's role in how the story is shaped for our consumption. I understand that both sides are pumping out propaganda faster than Hollywood and Bollywood could put out together.
 


I understand that some Muslims strap explosives to their bodies and bomb public places, killing innocent civilians.

I understand what could drive a person to such an depraved act.

I understand that Israel felt the need to build the largest wall since the division of Berlin to keep these madmen out.

I understand that people should have the freedom to live anywhere in the world, if there is room and they are willing to share with those already there. Not kick people out.

I understand that Israel has claims to a "homeland".

I understand that Israel is a fundamentalist theocracy, surrounded by other fundamentalist theocracies.

I understand the religious importance of these events and this area to zealous true believers and their interpretation of myths.

I understand that Israel has been responsible for atrocities like Sabra and Shatilla, and killing innocent civilians.

I understand that Israel has been attacked first.

I understand that Israel has attacked first.

I understand it has been going on for a very long time.

I understand some people use human shields.

I understand some people don’t care.

I understand that Israel needs water, wants more territory, and wants to extend the BTC pipeline down to Haifa.

I understand that Israel has been oppressing and excluding people based on ethnic and economic status for decades.

I understand that Israelis live in fear of being "pushed into the sea".

I understand Israel's neighbours not appreciating Israel's treatment of people or its "targeted assassinations" in broad daylight and reported in the media for all to see.

I understand that Israel is a US outpost and protectorate, their Middle-East guard dog supplied with weapons both legal and illegal and paid for by US taxpayers.

I understand that Israel is not subject to UN resolutions.

I understand there is a powerful Jewish lobby in Washington D.C. and the influence they have on their clients.

I understand the greater regional goals involving oil and it's geopolitics in this age of tightening supplies.

I understand the economic windfalls for the military industrial complex, the oil companies and the fundamentals of "disaster capitalism".

I understand that bombing Lebanon to destroy Hezbollah is about as productive as bombing Italy to destroy the Mafia.

I do… I understand it all... I do "get it".

You probably do as well.

What I don't get is how lobbing ordinance at each other (be it in deeds in real life or in words on these forums) could be any part of the solution to these problems... and I don't understand picking sides for whatever ideological reason and cheerleading.

Am I also to understand that bloodlust and collective mob madness are to be allowed to gain a stranglehold over any rational or honest approach to these matters?

Our "leaders" sure act like it.

The world is watching.
.


[edit on 31/7/2006 by Mirthful Me]




posted on Jul, 31 2006 @ 09:22 PM
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I'd say that about sums it up pretty well, Gools.
The folks that should be getting it still won't get it.

I get quite tired watching politicians play politics and even tireder watching the MSM present it.
I am saddened that this "bloodlust and collective mob madness" seems to thrive in our 24/7 news environment.



posted on Jul, 31 2006 @ 09:28 PM
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Good OP/ED!

About the only thing I'd disagree with is the statement that Israel is a "fundamentalist theocracy"

In fact, Israel is a fairly open democracy, and doesn't have many laws that discriminate on a religious basis.

[edit on 7/31/2006 by djohnsto77]



posted on Jul, 31 2006 @ 09:28 PM
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Gools I love it and trust me I got it I wish others were able to get off the Armageddon trip and the dreams of rapture and understand that the conflict involving Israel is nothing new and is not going to be the last.




[edit on 31-7-2006 by marg6043]



posted on Jul, 31 2006 @ 10:13 PM
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I don't get it. Let me think about it a little bit longer. Hmmm....I still don't get it. Does anybody else get it?



posted on Jul, 31 2006 @ 10:20 PM
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The biggest thing that both sides should care about now is ending this horrible battle and stopping innocent civilians on both sides from being caught in the middle of the crossfire. After seeing the footage a day ago concerning Qana, I cannot believe how anyone could take sides in this thing. People like us are being killed, injured and forced from their homes.

That is the most important thing. And Gools, I get it. I truly get it. And as I do, the sadder I get.

[edit on 31-7-2006 by ceci2006]



posted on Jul, 31 2006 @ 11:17 PM
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I will probalby get in toruble for this... I get it! However, the way a war is waged, if it is truly a war, and not a political scam is the way the war is going over there now. Not ours ... I speak of the Israeli/Lebanese unpleasantness.

For a war to be successful, it is not stopped, because people don't like it. It does not choose who is a combatant or a non-combatant. All the "other" guys are targets, civilian or military. Unfortunately ...

If you think back over our history. The last "real" war we had was World War II. In that particular time, as you may recall, the Axis powers, and the Allies, indiscriminately, for the most part, killed military and civilian alike. There was no differentiation. That war, all political overtones aside, was won by the Allies, because they could, and did, dump more lethality on the Axis than vice-versa.

The whole idea for civilians is to vacate a war zone. Israel, rightly, or wrongly, is creating a war zone. It is not one, I fear, that we may be able to negotiate a peace accord on.

And you are right ... It's very sad.



posted on Jul, 31 2006 @ 11:22 PM
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Gools



BRAVO!



Our only chance for peace is for the leadership of ALL sides to "get it" that what most people really want is a healthy, normal, productive life that makes the world a better place for ourselves and for our children...



posted on Jul, 31 2006 @ 11:40 PM
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Amen! Gools, thanks for writing and sharing this. Yes, the world is indeed watching. What is that idea of crisis--opportunity for change?

To answer Pete Seeger, when will we ever learn--maybe now?



posted on Aug, 1 2006 @ 06:03 AM
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EXCELLENT! I couldn't have said it better myself. Now lets just sit back and watch all those who do not get it (or won't get it) make asses of themselves claiming you are anti-semetic, hate Israel, support terrorists, steal candy from babies and kick dogs.



posted on Aug, 1 2006 @ 06:32 AM
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About the only thing I'd disagree with is the statement that Israel is a "fundamentalist theocracy"


It is. Israel is a Zionist state (which is fundamental).

Thats why orthodox [sic] Jews do not agree or support Israel.



posted on Aug, 1 2006 @ 07:52 AM
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This is really a good post to point out what all Israel has done. But, what about the other side? Why just jump on the Israel bandwagon?



posted on Aug, 1 2006 @ 07:54 AM
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Originally posted by infinite
]

It is. Israel is a Zionist state (which is fundamental).


I'm really surprised at that statement. Do you really believe that is true or are you only hurling rhetoric to prove that they are a fundamentalist state? You are so off base here, it's unfair.



posted on Aug, 1 2006 @ 08:13 AM
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Actually he is not.....while there is a large secular Jewish community, the funamentalist conservative hasidic movement controls alot of important key departments including determining who is Jewish or not, in the 90's there was a huge uproar about a decision by the Rabbinic council (which is composed almost entirely by Hasidic and conservative Rabbis) that only conservative and Hasidic faithful could be considered Jews, and as such free to imigrate to Israel. I think they finally backed down, but yes as such things go, Israel is to a large part controlled by fundamentalists. If you do not believe me it should be easy to verify.



posted on Aug, 1 2006 @ 08:16 AM
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If you read very carefully and take off your Israel good Muslim bad blinders, you will see that Gools has gone out of his way to be very fair in his editorial and I salute him for it. So much so he is getting my first ever above top secret award vote.



posted on Aug, 1 2006 @ 09:45 AM
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The scary part is we all get it. we may not get all of it but we get enough of it to know that man will be man.
We started out fighting for our lives. things became better to the point we dont have to fight for our lives.
Now we fight because we dont know what else to do. We use things like religion and revenge for our excuses.
Oh ya I get, and the more I do the less I want to. Some times ignorance really is bliss.



posted on Aug, 1 2006 @ 01:03 PM
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Originally posted by loam
... what most people really want is a healthy, normal, productive life that makes the world a better place for ourselves and for our children...


I think part of the problem is that most people want that for themselves and their friends and loved ones but don't care one iota about the other person and their loved ones. They have the "as long as I got mine" attitude.

There is a serious lack of empathy in the world today and it seems to be concentrated with those who profess to be religious or somehow pious, or "chosen" (look at me I'm super special! :shk: ), with the irony totally lost on them.

Someone once said that the only thing you get out of "winning" a war is the opportunity to change things.

I think it's clear by the sheer number of wars that have been fought and "won" in this area of the world that these players are incapable of changing things. Why should any of us choose to follow anything these "leaders" decide needs to be done?

We need to find another way, but that requires honesty. Something else that's in short supply. You can't even bring up a fact without having it thrown right back into your face, having a label pinned on you or having someone attack your position with counter facts based on some ideologically twisted agenda to suppress the cold hard truth that might contradict the "we can do no wrong" moral high ground such people hold dear.


Originally posted by zenlover28
This is really a good post to point out what all Israel has done. But, what about the other side? Why just jump on the Israel bandwagon?


You need to re-read my post.


edit: spelling
.

[edit on 8/1/2006 by Gools]



posted on Aug, 1 2006 @ 01:14 PM
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Originally posted by grover
If you read very carefully and take off your Israel good Muslim bad blinders, you will see that Gools has gone out of his way to be very fair in his editorial and I salute him for it. So much so he is getting my first ever above top secret award vote.


Grover, whose got on the blinders? Certainly not I. Israel is no Saint and neither is Radical Islam. I even said his post was a good post for pointing out Israel's faults. But, where is the other side? No blinders here. I see both sides. As far as Israel being a Zionist State. Zionism was the 'movement' to found Israel and today it only means 'support for the DEMOCRATIC state of Israel as the homeland of the Jewish people'...why can't they have a friggin homeland like the rest of us? It is being used in a pure rhetorical way to indicate that a Zionist is someone who believes in the racial superiority of the Jews. Some Zionists perhaps believe in that racial superiority. But, not all Jews are Zionists and not all Zionists are racists. Probably very few of them in fact. As far as being a fundamentalist state...not so. It is a Social Democracy in which Arabs vote just as well as Jews. Of course there are social inequalities...but, is that not true anywhere? Even in the U.S.? You're interpretation of a fundamentalist state is wrong at best. By your logic, the U.S. would be a fundamentalist state as well. Of course your logic probably supports that though, eh? I'd really like to know what you all think a 'fundamentalist state' even is. Because i'm not getting your version of it.

I would hope that all of us are Zionists in the non rhetorical meaning of the word. I would hope that we would all support the Jews' and Israel's right to exist. No? If not...well then, hmmmmmm. What's that make you?



posted on Aug, 1 2006 @ 01:48 PM
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He does mention quite a few times what the other side has done as well.....I think he has been quite fair.

I might not claim that Israel is a theocratic state but the fundamentalists have considerable power as they do here as well....not as much as they do in some (not all) Islamic states but none the less, the power they weild compared to their numbers is great.


MMP

posted on Aug, 1 2006 @ 02:01 PM
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This is the greatest OP/ED piece I have read on this site this year. This is a great examination of the situation.



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