Hezbollywood. Was the Qana collapse staged?

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posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 12:27 PM
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OK, knowing EXACTLY what the standard media video editing practices are, let's evaluate that video, time code included.

at TC 02:57 VO states:

"We see 3 men, apparently under fire"

while TC 03:04, CLEARLY shows a bullet striking the pavement right between the medic in green overalls, and the man in the blue shirt leaning over the wounded men.

The dust cloud remains in the frame to TC 03:06, right when the VO poses a question "If they were under fire, why did the ambulance" blah blah blah.

This is good enough for me to know that only 3 minutes into the piece, two clearly obvious fallacies have been purposefully injected into the story line in order to skew the opinion of the viewer.

Feel free to examine the video in full, I'm done here.

I have personally seen and worked with raw footage from Gaza/West bank, I know exactly how it works and how the cutters edit it for the media.

It's war, IDF sniper/spotter teams take the high ground, regular forces clash with Palestinians and flush them into the sniper fire. Palestinians do the same, by attempting to drag regular forces into their own sniper nests.

IDF gets tired of photogs running all over the place and simply shots them on site. The reason some Palestinian photogs with ties to Hamas are relatively safe is because they are on the job, and if they are targeted by IDF they are protected by retaliatory strikes from Hamas.

Want more? I don't recommend it, it's ugly.




posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 12:58 PM
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Originally posted by zer69
Here is the actual video footage.

You need to see this.


Pallywood


Yeah zer they definitly set that up..NOT, you could even see the bullets hitting the street pavement right after they got him into the ambulance. Of course there will be an ambulance nearby if the israelis were shooting at people. That video is so biased and made to look as though the Israelis are such victims , meanwhile that factory and settlement is on Palestinian land. Probably a settler took his new Uzi out and started having some target practice with some Palestinian that was walking by and started the whole affair.



posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 01:37 PM
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Originally posted by ThePieMaN
Yeah zer they definitly set that up..NOT, you could even see the bullets hitting the street pavement right after they got him into the ambulance. Of course there will be an ambulance nearby if the israelis were shooting at people. That video is so biased and made to look as though the Israelis are such victims , meanwhile that factory and settlement is on Palestinian land. Probably a settler took his new Uzi out and started having some target practice with some Palestinian that was walking by and started the whole affair.


Some of those events were definitely like from C rated movie, c'mon pie it's obvious.


It's normal they're trying to even more magnify damage/deaths caused by Israelis.

[edit on 2006-8-16 by zer69]



posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 02:20 PM
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We want to be known as factual, and we want to be outright most honest news source we could possibly be...and we get used by the news.

We sometimes forget that most news coverage anymore is just a copy of someone else's previous release, sometimes peppered with some historical documentation that rarely makes comlete sense. News is printed all over this nation, and others, months out of date from this copy-and-paste reporting. It's very rare to get mulitple reports from the site of the incident, which ever incident it is. It doesn't make the news right or wrong, it just perpetuates the thruth or lie within the document until there's too much of it to deny it as a part of history. When, on the rare times it is caught, people point out the lies, one lie is made to look like a whole host of misdirecting angels come back to avenge something.

Similar blogging communities, and even some outright copycats of this site are sources for the media to exploit. This site is exploited.

It's hard to deny ignorance when we ARE the disinformation. We've got to be a bit faster than this, random community of crazies or no.


/Rant off

Ok, but seriously, I'm not suprised, and y'all oughtn't be, either.

This also makes me wonder how long before we have professional paid news reporters as a part od this site, writing regular columns.



posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 02:32 PM
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Some of those events were definitely like from C rated movie, c'mon pie it's obvious.


What is obvius, is that the merit of the VOICE OVER is a LIE! Thus the ENTIRE report has to be simply DISCARDED in its ENTIREY, as another example of DECEITFULL media practises.

If one accepts and aproves the use of deceipt as normality, by basic logic he him self must be self a lier.


It's normal they're trying to even more magnify damage/deaths caused by Israelis.


Propoganda is in fact normal, and has been used for thousands of years, but the same goes for various disinformation techniques.

When a population is continuesly lied to by its ruler, it is conditioned to the point when it becomes simply nesessary to lie even about an obvious lie.

In case of anti-Israli and anti-US propoganda, even when obvious facts of lies and exadurations by varios anti-Israli/anti-US factions/governmets are clearly recorder, American population is so desentasised and "neutralised" by never ending Media lying, that the only way to deliver a messege with any impact is by lying about a lie.

Just today, EVERY single network reported that a plane had to be rerouted and grounded becasue female passanger was aprihanded do to supposed terrorist attempt, that in possesion she had vaseline, screwdrider, mathces and BinLaden related note.

Just a few hours later we find out that it was a 60 year old women that suffered a panic attack, that she did not had ANY of the items listed.

No jar of Vaseline, no screwdriver, no matches, and no Bin Laden note.

How can people not find this kind of crap to be simply insulting?

What's next, a report that a horned Martian related to BinLaden landed on White House, demanded to borrow 5 bucks for a beer or he'll blow up Hoover Dam?




ThePieMaN, even though I find your "boycott Israel" signature tag interesting, unfortunately such boycotting is simply impossible, both in US, Canada, and other countries.

Only In US, estimated 80 percent of all consumable products are labeled with U, P, and K markings, or what is called a "Kosher Tax".

To put it mildly, it's called taxation with out representation and any accounting disclosure. In reality it's simply world wide racketeering and a racist hypocrisy of unimaginable proportions.

US population is roughly 300 mil. Jewish population in US is 6,155,000 as of 2001, or 2.2%. Out the entire US population only 1.8 represents population which practices Judaism.

The numbers of Jews who are religiously strict enough to actually observe the traditions is yet to be published, even though it would be very simply to do by calculating the total number of religions paraphernalia sold on Jewish holidays.

By the way, you might find it interesting that Atheists represent 15.0% of US population, thus dwarfing the numbers of practicing Jews.

So just by numbers and only in US (not including Canada etc), supposedly for the religious rights of 1.8% of total US population, the rest of the ENTIRE nation has to either consume products which were "blessed" by a rabbi, grow their own food, or go to various Asian/Mexican markets.

If that's not discrimination, I don't what is.

Feel free to look up the rest for your self by googling "kosher tax", make your own conclusion, and then go right here - www.adl.org... - to count the sheer number of blatant fallacies in that statement.

As always, for fallacy identification and classification I recommend this excellent resource; fallacyfiles.org

Have fun, deny ignorance.


P.S. jlc163, you got it.


This also makes me wonder how long before we have professional paid news reporters as a part od this site, writing regular columns.


Not how long, but "for how long".

Forums and blogging are just another outlet for disinformation release, and public opinion polling.

They are so called "free speech zones".

I'm sure you already see that when you get all the ranters in one area, you are able to simply control them in any way you wish.



posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 02:36 PM
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One of my favorites,

"I'm not an idealist, I don't want truth or justice, I just want a lobotomy so I don't have to know that every single second of my life I'm drowning in poorly scripted and ill acted theater of lies."



posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 06:32 PM
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Originally posted by zer69

Some of those events were definitely like from C rated movie, c'mon pie it's obvious.


It's normal they're trying to even more magnify damage/deaths caused by Israelis.



Dude I've never been shot, but that guy went down like a brick and if he was acting then he deserves an academy award. I can't understand why people actually make up excuses for people being killed and injured like this to protect a nations reputation. That really is scary and it reminds me of Communist Russia with arrests , shootings,kidnapping and secret service agents.sheesh.

How can you say that these people are faking it when you see gunfire out of the windows of the settlement and the barb-wire, the molotov cocktails, and the palestinians returning fire? Those people were angry. To say that someone should properly carry someone to shelter or rescue under fire is absolutely ridiculous, Im sure that dude was happy if he was dragged by his friggin hair if he got help that way. There has to be someone on this board thats been in a battle under fire and pulled a buddy to safety without carrying him properly. To use that as an excuse for it being staged is nuts.



posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 08:29 PM
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I for one clearly heard a shot right before the man fell.

Gee, "could it be real, could it be fake?"

No blood? Ever seen a small caliber high velocity round wound you prick? Let me put it this way "Here's the hole, where it goes, nobody knows". No objections from the injured? Ever heard of shock?

What, is this guy a field surgeon all the sudden? Another false authority syndrome crapp.

"could John Kerry be a transvestite, we'll never know, but if he is, is he qualified to lead the Nation?"


I have no idea how stupid one actually has to be to buy crapp like that.

Why not flush your head in the toilet as a refresher?

If doesn't work, try using the head to find a stud in the wall.

Repeat as needed, and only then turn on your TV.

That's it, I'm gonna learn yet another language, at least it'll buy me some time of not knowing what the are bullsh!tting about for a while.



posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 09:33 PM
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Oh this is even better.

That 60 minutes segment was produced by Michael H. Gavshon, a CBS producer.

Try looking him up. Enough said.

Gee, isn't it just interesting how it always comes out this way?

When debates on lies, propaganda and disinformation just flare right up, how come certain type of last names are always between the lines and are never brought up?

Hummm.... Interesting...


edit:edit: just wanted to add.

P.S. Just look into who are the exact originators of the whole "staged Qana collapse", green hat men, and all other attempts of lie spreading.

Look into those names, then post them here, we can start a data base, run statistical analysis, really sink our teeth into it.

Let us hear the silence now, and only a lost and frightened cricket will once in a while send out a desperate S.O.S.




[edit on 16-8-2006 by iskander]



posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 11:15 PM
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Courtesy Is Mandatory

Let's please try to remember that on an international discussion board there will be many different opinions on the issues.

Here people from different countries -- including countries at war with one another -- have an opportunity to communicate directly with each other in an atmosphere of mutual respect and intellectual freedom.

Personal insults and ad hominem attacks are a direct assault on that which makes this possible and will not be tolerated.

I know it's not easy (I'm human and lose my cool too, now and then), but it's important that we do our best.

Let's try not to allow emotion to cloud our judgment or drive us away from the topic.

Topic: Hezbollywood. Was the Qana collapse staged?

[edit on 8/16/2006 by Majic]



posted on Aug, 17 2006 @ 04:39 PM
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Originally posted by iskander
I for one clearly heard a shot right before the man fell.

Gee, "could it be real, could it be fake?"

No blood? Ever seen a small caliber high velocity round wound you prick? Let me put it this way "Here's the hole, where it goes, nobody knows". No objections from the injured? Ever heard of shock?


Heard the shot right before the man fell? You should have heard the shot after the man fell, after all, high velocity rounds exceed the speed of sound by a factor of two at the minimum accepted high velocity threshold of 2,000 fps. The 5.56mm round used by the Israeli military has a muzzle velocity of 3,200 fps nominal at the muzzle, and would have retained more than 2,000 fps at 300 yards. You heard nothing.



5.56 terminal ballistics

5.56 NATO Ball Ammunition Ballistic Comparison
based on Aberdeen Proving Ground Data
velocity (fps) trajectory (in.) drop (inches) drift (inches)*
range M193 M855 M193 M855 M193 M855 M193 M855
(meters)
0 3,200 3,100 -2.5 -2.5 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
100 2,774 2,751 +2.8 +4.4 -2.2 -2.3 1.3 1.1
200 2,374 2,420 +2.7 +5.8 -9.9 -10.2 5.8 4.9
300 2,012 2,115 -4.9 0.0 -25.1 -25.3 14.2 11.8
400 1,680 1,833 -23.0 -15.0 -50.8 -49.5 27.6 22.4
500 1,373 1,569 -56.2 -42.9 -91.6 -86.7 47.5 38.0
600 1,106 1,323 -113.1 -88.2 -156.1 -141.3 76.4 59.5
700 995 1,106 -206.8 -156.1 -257.3 -220.9 113.5 88.4
800 927 1,010 -339.9 -267.7 -398.0 -339.2 156.1 124.9


As for the lack of blood, that was because the guy was faking it. A high velocity round will do tremendous tissue damage, and will typically open a large exit wound in extremities. The confines of ATS prevent providing examples, but those with a taste for the macabre will have little problem finding pictorial evidence with a search engine.

As for shock, yes a person hit with a high velocity round will go into hypovolaemic shock, they just won't move very much as shock sets in. The actor in this portrayal was moving far too much to be in "shock." The funny thing is, shock is usually precipitated by the loss of a large quantity of blood, especially in gushot wounds. Did you realize you gave opposing arguments in this rather poor attempt to discredit the video?

Clean up that potty mouth as well recruit.

Dismissed.



posted on Aug, 17 2006 @ 05:34 PM
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Major how do we know the weapon was Israeli Military and not a Settlers weapon? Im sure all your data is probably accurate but to assume it was a military weapon that hit him when you can't even see who was shooting is a bit of a stretch.

If that was fake then I guess the whole thing was staged because that looked like an angry mob to me and I doubt very much that Settlers or Israeli police would stand by while all that happened and just throw kisses. Those Palestinians were shooting real weapons, they were throwing real molotovs and Im sure by now that Rescue workers are experienced enough to know that when something like that breaks out that someone is going to get hurt and they make sure they are there when something happens. After all its not like this is a seldom happening there, as its probably an everyday occurance.



posted on Aug, 18 2006 @ 01:31 AM
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Heard the shot right before the man fell? You should have heard the shot after the man fell, after all, high velocity rounds exceed the speed of sound by a factor of two at the minimum accepted high velocity threshold of 2,000 fps. The 5.56mm round used by the Israeli military has a muzzle velocity of 3,200 fps nominal at the muzzle, and would have retained more than 2,000 fps at 300 yards.


Major Discrepancy, have you personally fired a weapon? I for one do so regularly, and expend on average 400 rounds at a time.

Thanks a lot for posting common knowledge specs on 5.56, how about some basics then?

When you hear a bullet strike, and let's say half a second later you hear the report, how far away is the shooter?

Don't bother going into leg wound reaction time and resulting loss of balance, unless you your self managed to defy the laws of physics and learned how to fall in half a second.


You heard nothing.


What is that an order? Are you kidding me?


As for the lack of blood, that was because the guy was faking it. A high velocity round will do tremendous tissue damage, and will typically open a large exit wound in extremities.


Obviously you don't know squat about bullet wounds.

5.56 is notorious for having inconsistent fragmentation, that is exactly why the Soviet 5.45 is designed with a hollow cone. 5.56 tumbles and fragments only at specific speeds, go look them up.

If the strike is to close and hits only soft tissue, it carries to much energy and goes right through. If the round looses to much energy it does not fragment and simply makes a small hole.

Ever since Nam folks have been complaining about that. Also feel free to look into early versions and why rifling twist was changed. 1 in 14 and 1 in 9.

This is especially evident with M4, and do to its shortened barrel to this day M4 has a bad rep. The bullets simply loose to much energy to fragment and targets just wont drop, requiring 4 or more hits.

I'm sure you'll have no problem finding all that "with a search engine."

As far as "because the guy was faking it" goes, how would you know? Ever been shot? Ever had anyone you know being shot? Ever seen anybody being shot? You get the drift.


As for shock, yes a person hit with a high velocity round will go into hypovolaemic shock, they just won't move very much as shock sets in.


LOL! Good God, Doctor Discrepancy has the floor, just like in the scene from "Spies Like US". So you must be a wound ballistics expert of some sort, right?


The actor in this portrayal was moving far too much to be in "shock." The funny thing is, shock is usually precipitated by the loss of a large quantity of blood, especially in gushot wounds.


So you for a fact know that he's an actor? Are you his agent then? If not, what other work has he done? Hey, if you make a statement, back it up.

Moving to much to be in shock? Really? How about this, why don't you go and find out the three stages of shock, then come back and tell us how long it takes. Then enlighten us about hydrostatic shock, and most importantly shock trauma as an ANS response.


Did you realize you gave opposing arguments in this rather poor attempt to discredit the video?


No not really, because you ASSUMED that I meant hypovolemic shock, so again I can only recommend that you enlighten your self to ANS responses.

As far as the video goes, let me put it this way, up until I resigned I have worked professionally for a national news network, and personally know how it is. You want to try me, ask.

The video is a fake, made not by pollywood, but by CBS, and it's an obvious one at that.


Clean up that potty mouth as well recruit.

Dismissed.


Sure thing sparky, as Majic respectfully requested, "Let's try not to allow emotion to cloud our judgment or drive us away from the topic. "

Svoboden, salaga.



posted on Aug, 23 2006 @ 02:51 PM
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www.moqavemat.com... - an Iran-based website run by the Hezbollah terrorist group - is running this picture (above) of what it claims is the Israeli ship it hit with a missile last month.


Doh! Andrew Bolt points out that this explosion looks exactly like the one the Defence Industry Daily published from a test off the coast of Australia in 1998. I'd also like to know how Hezbollah thinks we'd believe they got such good footage of their handiwork. It's just more lunacy and another day of horrifically bad production in Hezbollywood.



[edit on 23-8-2006 by dbates]



posted on Aug, 24 2006 @ 05:27 AM
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Doh! Andrew Bolt is KNOWN for complete lack or journalistic ethics.

His shameless propagandist political rhetoric and openly biased views actually spawned a number of blogs SPECIFICALLY dedicated to pointing out his fallacy sweat shop assembly line.

Here's a good one,

www.boltwatch.blogspot.com... - Bolt WATCH!

More here on his other endeavors;


Andrew Bolt’s lame criticism of the Lancet study


timlambert.org...

Naturally there's a lot more, so feel free to get out there and "Deny Ignorance."

On the subject of Bolts claims, let's start from here;


www.moqavemat.com... - an Iran-based website run by the Hezbollah terrorist group - is running this picture (above) of what it claims is the Israeli ship it hit with a missile last month.


To begin with, obviously it is not a statement made by a self respecting journalist. He must of skipped the entire course on ethics, or has an agenda.

Moving on. The link to the picture which he provided leads to other pictures;

His source reference;

81.28.44.243...

Other pictures listed on the SAME PAGE.

81.28.44.243...

81.28.44.243...

81.28.44.243...

81.28.44.243...

81.28.44.243...

81.28.44.243...

Take a look at the pictures and think for your selves if the topic of the supposed Hezbollah claim, (which incidentally is NOWHERE to be found on the source page), has to do with a picture which Hezbollah claimed to have taken while attacking the Israeli ship.

Note that the pictures are posted in the "Image report - Social" section of the sire.

Pictures of Phalanx, choppers landing and Harpoons being fired are self explanatory, not to mention the COMPLETE absence of any text of a news report in ANY of the three languages of the site.

Here's what the only two lines of Arabic text translates to;


Shanh Brkhord Mushکhai Hezbollah by Naoچh Ashraili

Nmaیch professionalism Hezbollah


We have two names, Hezbollah and professionalism. Where are the Hezbollah claims Andrew Bolt is referring to is yet to be determined.

Here's a link to the English version of the page;

moqavemat.ir...

Mr. dbates, considering that you are an ATS moderator, please find the ORIGINAL story that Mr. Andrew Bolt supposedly refers to, and we can pick it up from there, but as of now, the entire implication that moqavemat.ir posted the picture as proof of actual Hezbollah attack is clearly FALSE.

Considering the very nature of this forum, in my humble opinion ATS moderators should take special care when referencing outside sources. Especially when it comes to referencing pseudo-official BLOGs and WIKIpedia as credible sources, which they are clearly NOT.



posted on Aug, 24 2006 @ 07:29 AM
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Originally posted by iskander
please find the ORIGINAL story that Mr. Andrew Bolt supposedly refers to,


Odd, it was on the front page yesterday. The link to the ariticle and the picture were on the left-hand side right above the picture of Secretary Rice doing the hokey-pokey.



posted on Aug, 24 2006 @ 10:06 AM
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Odd, it was on the front page yesterday.



It is indeed odd. Andrew Bolts blog was put up on "Tuesday, August 22, 2006 at 08:51am"

The initial barrage of steady comments is also very interesting from a statistical point of view.

Here's one from many of such perpetually repeated themes;


Everyone should have a look to understand what sick, twisted and dangerous animals we are up against. They have no morals....its OK to kill, lie, cheat and preach hate.They don’t fear death and have a warped understanding of dignity. They don’t care if they die in the process of killing or if their children or relatives die to prove their sick point. Their website is adorned by a smiling Nazrallah......he doesn’t care about causing the destruction of Lebanon and the death of so many of his dumb Lebanese followers just as long as his fellow scum in the Arab world think he is a hero.
Anyone who thinks Israel is the only country in danger is fooling themselves. These scum won’t stop until the western world unites to defeat them without mercy. Surely there are enough good muslims in the world to put a stop to this cancer before its too late for them as much as us!
I just hope that when Israel has another crack at hezbollah, they don’t listen to the crap coming from the rest of the world and go all out......If “innocent Lebanese” get in the way, bad luck. They’re either too stupid to see the writing on the wall or are supporting the hezbollah and deserve what they get. Perhaps the Israelies can get the dumb smile of Nazralagallah once an for all.


blogs.news.com.au...

It's just like,"WOW", isn't? Just like from a script we all heard many times before, Mr. Paul covered every predictable angle.

I have to wonder what did happen to that article? Where did it go? dbates, which language was it in? How long was it? Who wrote it? On what date? What was it about exactly? Why didn't Andrew Bolt quote from it directly?

Maybe they removed it because some incompetent intern actually misplaced the story text into a section clearly posted as "Image report - Social".

I guess little accidents like that just happen all the time. Or, what is more plausible given the facts in hand, is that the story never existed as Andrew Bolt depicted it to be, but that's just me with my silly logic.

If the story does in fact exist somewhere on the page, what is logically more probable, is that do to the lack of the actual attack photo, they simply used a picture of a SIMILAR ship to display its TYPE.

It's a frame of reference thing. Kind of like saying "hey look folks, it was a big ship like this, not a little fishing dingy."

It is after all a standard practice and has been ever since a photo camera was used to add a picture to a print column.

It goes something like this "and then the assailant brandished a revolver, one just like this (insert picture of similar revolver) and proceeded with the robbery".

Such analogies are used by media every single day, and I don't see anybody crying wolf because that reporter did not display the actual weapon use in the robbery.

But again, that's just me, I guess some people just have to have that edge of realism.

BTW dbates, I like that "Hezbollahwood" tag you flying as your signature, looks good from here!



posted on Aug, 24 2006 @ 10:43 AM
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From the header on the referenced page in Arabic (which does not translate on the website)Here:


صحنه برخورد موشکهاي حزب الله به ناوچه اسراييلي

Speaking directly to Hezbollah's action, losely: "He screamed, 'Hezbollah is in him'"as the header.
(I had to ask for some help in deciphering the intent of the header). I took it literally...but in fact it is not meant to be taken literally as the "event" itself...rather a show of prowess and ability against a formidable foe.

Speaking to the "fear of the attack the enemy must have felt knowing Hezbollah's new abilities"
[with photo accompanying]. followed by...


نمایش اقتدار حزب الله

direct translation "Hezbollah's ability"

The assumed fear by “the enemy acknowledging Hezbollah could cause this type of destruction” rehashing the event through example….and not directly stating this is the picture of the historical act itself...but it does suggest it in not so many words and the reader is lead to believe it may well be.

Perhaps someone with a better explaination of the translation could post.

mg



posted on Aug, 24 2006 @ 11:02 AM
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I drifted a bit from the topic there. My apologies.

Getting back to "Rambo the drunken killer pit-bull. Did he kill an innocent little helpless angel of an infant?"

My bad, let me rephrase that. I meant; "Hezbollywood. Was the Qana collapse staged?"

No, what is staged to this day though, is the crudest and literally insulting attempt of blatant Internet propaganda campaign.

Especially absurd is the part where an accomplished photographer supposedly sabotaged his entire carrier by (and for some unknown reason) ruining his own shots by crudely faking completely UNNECESSARY and USELESS details.

Does an extra pixelated puff of smoke add to the obvious realism of the bombing under which an entire city is crumbling?

Do extra couple of flares add that special "flare" of drama to the scene?

Only the gullible mentality completely used to having their OWN media lie to them with every single breath the can muster, can accept such OBVIOUS and insulting manipulation attempt as news.

Don't take my word for it, here's a link;

www.counterpunch.org...

reprint - peoplesgeography.wordpress.com...

It's true what the say, there's no money in truth, but spin, hey, it's an entire empire. Keep working away, fellas like me we'll ALWAYS be here to call things for what they are.

The King is NAKED, everybody.

I feel like voting my self for the - "Barnstar of the Elders of Wikipedia for Spirited Defense of the Mysterious Cabal which Rules Wikipedia, the Media, International Finance, and the Garment District" - award, but being a honerary "meat-turd" that I am, I just wouldn't know where to send it...



posted on Aug, 24 2006 @ 11:18 PM
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I can't take credit for finding this one, Prince of Persia did but it is very relevant to this thread. Take and look and tell me what you think.

www.youtube.com...





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