Tar Baby bites Mitt Romney

CeCe
Milk-it!
You are getting some significant mileage out of this.

However, if this were a real life event, and I was directly involved.
I would consider getting lawyer involved.
Calling, or inferring that someone is a racist, who is definitely not a racist, might be grounds for a defamation suit.

But go ahead, keep it up, racial lines, that have been blurring year by year, are coming back into focus. Just keep your magnifying glass handy, focus on the minutiae for us.

But I never called anyone racist. That my friend, is left on FlyersFan's porch. She is slipping into her victimization role like I expected her to. Watch her as she "plays the race card". It's quite a spectacle to see. Unfortunately, it stinks to high heaven just like this thread.

Btw, accepting diversity helps in the blurring of racial lines instead of assimilation. Or is assimilation something you want? It'd be a boring world if everyone was the same.

You just can't have a great conversation about race with a close-minded, unilateral thinker. That is the tragedy of topics like this.







[edit on 6-8-2006 by ceci2006]

Originally posted by ceci2006

You just can't have a great conversation about race with a close-minded, unilateral thinker. That is the tragedy of topics like this.


[edit on 6-8-2006 by ceci2006]

Precisely!
I think thats what a lot of us have been trying to tell you.

No, you're wrong there. There's a "group" of you on this particular issue. The "group of you" do not make up the entire membership on the board. And "your group" does not represent everyone here on the boards and what they think.

And there are some people who are sick and tired of diversity. And they probably wish that the Civil Rights Act of 1964 had never passed. And they are sick and tired of having to accept different people. They continue to be resistant except to defend those like Mitt Romney who can't help themselves to say a pejorative term and then claim it's "American Lore".

The only resort is to be like those who are blind to compassion for other people for the sake of keeping a stupid term from a Civil War-era plagarist. And that is truly a bunch of crap.

If that's your group. I rather not be a part of it.









[edit on 6-8-2006 by ceci2006]

Entire membership?
okee dokee
You are doing an excellent job, again, of making lots, out of little.
I'm talking about some who have responded in this thread.

My Group?
I believe I have just been "sterotyped".
I hate when that happens.
I feel like a pack animal now.



[edit on 6-8-2006 by spacedoubt]

You're right, though. But I didn't stereotype you. After all, you indicated you were part of the majority by saying, "a lot of us". It's an indication of mob rule. So, I am sorry for misreading you.

It is making a little out a lot. But making a little out of a lot also is precisely what this topic demonstrates.

But now, I'm at the point of being at peace with this topic.

[edit on 6-8-2006 by ceci2006]

I hope this thread gets closed. I'm a member here and i hope i have a little say.

This has gone far enough.

Enough B.S. So many victims, so little time. Get over it.

I suppose the time has come that we can never again post anything having any African connotations. Dont ever mention the African American race ever again.
Its taboo to mention it, or anything close to it.
Lets just stick to the rest of the world and totally ignore colored people. They dont exist.
Is that what you want, Ceci???

I'm a Hispanic, part Gypsey, and i'm sure we had some horse thieves in the family.
Lets talk about that. I'm open minded enough that i can handle it.

Some hispanics are here mooching off the government- on welfare- lets go for their throats.

That, Ceci, is the difference between you and I. Stop playing the victim, for christs sakes....

Any time anything is said referencing your race all hell breaks lose here because of you. All threads. Your blog. Everything is about "race" even if its not meant to be. I feel sorry for you. I wonder what your life is like.

Ok please step back, take a breath, and just calm down

Please lets keep this thread on the right track,

Thanks,
Asala

There obviously has to be some sensible lines drawn on what people say. Romey's usage, imo, was just plain stupid, the word is used as a racist slur, and I'd wager that the majority of its use is as such. Even the much loathed 'n' word was originally not a 'racist' term, but none of us would argue for its use.
On the other extreme, people want to elminiate words that merely have the hint of superiority or racism. I recall seeing flyers on a college campus that were demanding that people boycott a school picnic, because, according to the flyer, 'picnic' is a racist term, invented in the US, where racists would get together for an outing and "pick a ...." to lynch and kill.
THis, of course, is entirely untrue, its not even an english, let alone american word, and such 'social events' never happened (lynchings, sure, but picnic lynchings and such?). It was revealed ultimately that the word infact had no such meaning, and that it was an urban legend entirely. When pressed on this, the people protesting the usage said 'the point is, it offends'.


Clearly there have to be limits. If you can't say it around a person comfortably, then I'd think that thats a good way to decide whats good to say and not. I wouldn't say what Romey said around blacks, regardless of my understanding that the word is equivalent to 'boondoggle', because its simply far too offensive. I certainly would invite any black friends to a picnic though, and properly laugh at them for thinking it was an insulting word.

By all due respect, dg, don't feel sorry for me. I'm fine and my life is too. Contrary to what you and others have tried to perceive about me, I don't spend my life embittered over race. In fact, I talk about it like many other subjects. In fact, I find it funny that people like you paint me as so ensconced in racial issues. I am much more political in scope by nature. And more threads on the board have been devoted to those concerns than ever about race.

Actually, there are many threads before I came a member that feature other posters of color defending African-Americans-especially when other posters have decided to "give advice" to the "Black Community". And believe me, the posters in threads like those were rather unforgiving about African-Americans.

There are always threads (includiing another one about Asian cops in Britain) that has someone admit openly they don't like Muslims or Africans. I have not answered at all in that thread. But I read it with a lot of interest. Luckily, there are very wonderful members who are defending the right to be humane towards other people.

There is another thread about Cynthia McKinney and her Challenger Hank Johnson, in which I had two posts in. But the people participating in that thread kept on perpetrating that she "had a bad attitude". Funny. I've never heard of the same people equate a white person with a "bad attitude".

There are many others that use "race" in a "thread about race" besides me. I didn't start the threads about Cynthia McKinney, BET, nor the NAACP. Those were started by other people. And they were participated by not only myself but other posters of color who were trying to get their point of across, but always get ignored because they are simply written off as "crying about race".

Some of these members who speak back were here on the boards a lot earlier than myself. And from what I have read about the past treatises of race on this board, they had it worse than I did.

I understand your position and I agree with it most of the time. But the line has to be drawn when it comes about defending others in terms of dignity.

I don't know about you, but I really don't like people putting Black people down and robbing them of their self-respect and dignity just because a group of people do so to justify their biases. I know you don't like to offend anyone, but I respect your right to not get involved when defending the dignity of Latinos--ethnically or race-wise. But I've read other people who do get involved and try to make a difference.

But then again, Black people continually represent the only race that in which the door is swung open wide enough for people to constantly degrade, laugh at, and put down culturally, intellectually and politically because of a small minority who continues to be embittered about acceptance and participation in diversity. They are sick and tired of "trying to be politically correct" because that would have them be forced to be fully accepting of others even though culturally they haven't had to do so before.

It's even amazing to me that someone had the insight to start a thread about why people hate the Jews, when no one else has had the courage to start one about the hatred of Blacks. That's because Africans and African-Americans, by extension, are continually verbally beaten up by others who don't care.

No one posts a thread about the Africans dying in Darfur because of they are more content to speak badly about them. Instead, they take the time to perpetuate the stereotypes of Blacks everywhere because they can instead of solving these pertinent issues in Africa (That is what "Africa: The Prison Continent" is about). And the posts about Africans were far worse than the diatribes about Blacks in America by FF and others.

I am happy that someone had the courage to create that thread and continue discussing why "people hate the Jews" with posters there actually questioning history and their own attitudes in searching for the reason. At least, people are working on their feelings in that thread and trying to be humane in their search for answers.

For Blacks? No one would ever do that kind of search for understanding at all. Instead, you get threads like this one with a whole lot of people "tired about race-relations and racism" who constantly vent their anger and put down Blacks in agreement with other people.

I too wish this thread was closed, but for other reasons. I just think that instead of posting threads as this one, things would best be served if people openly admitted their feelings about Blacks. That would save a lot of bandwidth about putting down the NAACP, BET and other Black organizations and people. But hiding their bias behind a Black organization and using "equality" as a false reason, they continue to perpetuate stereotypes about Black people.

For what it is worth, I still admire your friendship with FlyersFan. I still accept your defense of her because that is what a friend does regardless.

But FlyersFan's posts toward posters of color seriously have to be considered. I am not the only poster of color who has had to withstand her nasty comments about African-Americans especially when those posts repeat the same derogatory tripe over and over.

Being tired about race doesn't even explain half of her posts. They are virulently hateful of Black culture and people.

So, I am deeply sorry I said cracker-crat and if it offended others. But I am not sorry for what I said to FlyersFan. She plays the victim and "screams about race" far better than I could ever do. She often gets away with it because others agree with her virulent assumptions about Blacks--especially when there is no one to defend Black people here on the boards at all.

I don't play the victim, dg. I do have the courage to fight for the dignity of my own race instead of trying not to "offend anyone", however. "Trying not to offend people" for the sake of others who don't give a damn about my race is too high for the price of assimilation. But some willingly pay it and suffer quietly just to fit in.

That's the difference between you and me. I recognize that there are good and bad Black people. However, I can't sit back and let someone put my people down. And if I don't agree with what the dominant culture says about the actions of Black people, I tell them. I am not the type to just go along with what those perpetuating prejudicial, hateful stereotypes of my race say just because of the fear of being "painted as a victim". It's called self-hate and I don't practice it.

As for African-American things to be discussed here, I'm not the gate-keeper. People can discuss what they want. My views can't possibly stop others from what they want to post. I am not that powerful on this board. I am not a mod. I am not a staff member. So this is not true.

But most of your claims about my subject matter of posting is exaggerated, though. I spend only a fraction of my time about race. The same could be said about my blog. Only a few entries are actually written about race. More time is spent about "civil liberties" and politics. And I will still devote my time to those areas because they are very pertinent in this day and age.






















[edit on 6-8-2006 by ceci2006]

Originally posted by ceci2006


I don't know about you, but I really don't like people putting Black people down and robbing them of their self-respect and dignity just because other people's attitudes against them.

Nobody here is putting black people down. You cannot give one example.

But then again, Black people continually represent the only race that in which the door is swung open wide enough for people to constantly degrade, laugh at, and put down culturally, intellectually and politically because of a small minority who continues to be embittered about acceptance and participation in diversity. They are sick and tired of "trying to be politically correct" because that would have them be forced to be fully accepting of others even though culturally they haven't had to do so before.

And therein lies the rub. You have no right to force anybody to accept anyone else. Nobody has that right. All you do is cause the friction evident in this thread.

I too wish this thread was closed, but for other reasons. I just think that instead of posting threads as this one, things would best be served if people openly admitted their feelings about Blacks.

Why? To validate your preconceived notions of racism? Another person's feelings about another race is none of your business. You're just looking for gas to throw on the fire.

But FlyersFan's posts toward posters of color seriously have to be considered. I am not the only poster of color who has had to withstand her nasty comments about African-Americans especially when those posts repeat the same derogatory tripe over and over.

You're way out of bounds, again. Attacking another member. With statements that are patently false.

So, I am deeply sorry I said cracker-crat and if it offended others. But I am not sorry for what I said to FlyersFan. She plays the victim far better than I could ever do and often gets away with it because others agree with her virulent assumptions about Blacks--especially when there is no one to defend Black people here on the boards at all.

You're not sorry. How many times have we heard that? And FlyersFan would be among the first to defend someone who was being attacked unfairly.

You constantly throw gas on the fire. That's exactly what you do with threads like this one.

Besides, I'm not forcing anyone to accept anything. I'll say it again for the third time: I am merely expressing my opinion.

But you are resposible for your own feelings of being besieged and oppressed. That's your own problem.

In the scheme of things, you're more racist than I am. And I can say that for a fact. So get off your high horse. You are responsible for spewing more racist crap here than I can ever do. You disguise your racism as "reason". Then when people disagree with you, you say that it's "side-tracking" the issue and refuse to answer people's objections. Then you continue to spew more racist crap--especially when it attacks Cynthia McKinney.

All you can justify it with is being an "Angry White Man".

Besides, I posted statements in three separate threads in which FF did put not only blacks down, but latinos too. It's not attacking a member. It's describing the content of her threads.

Most people do it once, but over a countless number of threads in a number of years? Sorry, but even you can't even defend her there.

And FlyersFan defend someone Black? Please. Hell would freeze over before she did. She can barely contain herself when exerting her virulent comments about Black people.

Besides, you got yourself into T and C violation territory for attacking my character. So has she. So we're all guilty parties here all around the bend.

And yes, I am sorry for using "cracker-crat" and offending white people with this terminology. I do not express remorse for FF or you, however. You both rightfully earned my contempt especially how you've treated myself and other posters of color with your sheer arrogance.

At least I said sorry for my comments overall, however. When have you ever apologized for the racist things you've said? Ever?

You just feign tiredness about race-relations and continue to spew your brand of racism over the board with each new thread you can post. Including this one.





[edit on 6-8-2006 by ceci2006]

There you go again. Attacking the person and not the argument.

I am not "besieged, oppressed, or an Angry White Man". Those are your words, not mine.

I have a Teflon exterior, not a Tar Baby exterior.

I'm done with ya, at least for this thread. Buh-bye.

Ceci, even though you and I couldn't be more different in our views on things, I respect the passion you show for your beliefs. You are always out there front and center taking flack and persistently moving forward I think that if you and I ever met face to face we would have one heck of a conversation!

More lies and slander ... thread after thread after thread after thread from this
wing nut. A previous poster said it ... too bad this isn't real life. I'd sue her for
all the pathetic lies and slander. My God ... she's a sick puppy. Go get some
help Ceci. You are in desperate need of it. I doubt you even know what reality
is anymore.

to the fact that she hasn't gotten canned for all her slander, lies, and
unwarrented personal insults. In fact .... double

BTW .. she spent more time slandering me than discussing the issue.
jso said it .. I'm done with you too Ceci. You are a hopeless case.
A freak'n waste of bandwidth this was!



[edit on 8/6/2006 by FlyersFan]

Originally quoted by Escromutus
Ceci, even though you and I couldn't be more different in our views on things, I respect the passion you show for your beliefs. You are always out there front and center taking flack and persistently moving forward I think that if you and I ever met face to face we would have one heck of a conversation!

Thank you very much, Escromutus for your kind and generous words. You also have my deep and profound respect. In the end, I do not mind that we disagree. And in fact, I like people to disagree with me so I can see both sides of the issue. But at the same time, I am a passionate and rather tough in debate even though (as you can see) it gets rather dirty. Like I've told others here, you always believe in what you say and you stick to your principles. That is the most relevant thing in a debate about a topic.

But even with all that, I always like it when no one goes away mad.

And this time I am sad that some people did go away angry. That is terrible. And I am truly sorry for that.

But we are all wiser because of the experience. That is more important.

And yes, I suppose if we ever did meet face to face, we would have a spirited conversation because I never like things to be dull.

Out of all the times we crossed paths on the board, you can never say that you were bored to tears.

Take care,

--Ceci


[edit on 7-8-2006 by ceci2006]

Now don't anyone jump on my back for this comment, I "really" have no "dog in this fight," but.....

What is the big deal about him making an apology?

If you offend someone, intentionally or not, why is it such a big deal to say your sorry? Even mean it?

Is this not the basic rudimentary ingredient for mutual understanding? The ability to empathize with another human being?

While I believe that Political Correctness has FAR exceeded any usefulness in today's society, I also believe that if we are to stand together and function as a group, (Or a Country) we MUST learn that basic empathy for our fellow man is fundamental.

While I have disagreed with Ceci on the use of the term Illegal, and still do, the term "Tar Baby" serves no real literary function. It is neither accurately descriptive or socially acceptable in some circles. So why not apologize?

If I say something that offends Ceci, and I have, I make a concerted effort to tell her either 1. why I said it, or 2. flat out apologize to her. I have always, ALWAYS, gotten the same from her.

I know that some of you that have debated me will find that this is not my usual "Grab the bull by the horns" mentality, but read the past posts and please tell me what is being accomplished by the "borderline" insulting going on.

Just my 2 cents...

Semper

Semper, thank you very much for your input about this topic. I would like to take time and think about your questions. They are valid--especially in addressing some of the problems of this thread.

Originally quoted by FlyersFan

More lies and slander...thread after thread after thread from this wing nut. A previous poster said it...to bad this isn't real life. I'd sue her for all the pathetic lies and slander. My God...she's a sick puppy. Go and get some help Ceci. You are in desperate need of it. I doubt you even know what reality is anymore.

to the fact that she hasn't gotten canned for all her slander, lies and unwarrented personal insults. In fact....double..

BTW...she spent more time slandering me than discussing the issue. jso said it...I'm done with you too Ceci. You are a hopeless case. A freak'n waster of bandwidth this was!

FlyersFan made accusations towards me. Instead of refuting them in my own words, I am going to present several examples of her posts so that others can see her work in action. They deserve to be examined in light of the charges and insults she has made against my character from her last post on this thread. Let this be part of the record, of this post and of reality:

Page 4

4 - However, the BET is EXCLUSIVELY black and has programming that is anti-white and 'comedy' that ridicules whites and other non-black groups.

BET is race exclusive. Its entire purpose is exclusive. It makes sure it is
exclusive in all aspects. It is therefore - racist.

If someone came up with a WET with an agenda similar to BET then there would
riots in the streets. However, in regards to BET, most of America doesn't care.
As long as the racists are all tucked away on one channel the rest of America
doesn't have to put up with them.

BET actually provides a service. It is a magnet for the racists so they gravitate
there and that in turn keeps them off the rest of cable TV (for the most part).
The rest of us can just turn the channel and ignore them (like we do with racist
blogs on the internet).

Page 5

The FACT is that it is separatist; it is totally based on race; it is exclusive;
and the anti-white racists absolutely DO flock to that channel. Jesse Jackson,
Al Sharpton, Whitney Houston, KMBA (Kiss My Black A$$) productions ...
the anti-white guest list goes on and on and on ...

Page 7

And I stand by my observation that bigots and anti-white people are drawn to that
station. I did NOT say that ALL the people on that station are bigots. I said that
the anti-white bigots are drawn to it. I gave just a few examples as requested.
It's a fact so deal with it.

1)She called BET racist and separatist.

2)She defamed artist Whitney Houston and Civil Rights Leaders Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton by calling them "Anti-White" racists. She has not presented any credible proof.

3)She said throughout her comments that "anti-white" bigots congregated on BET.

4)When asked, she could not name five shows that belittled whites on BET. Yet she accused the station of doing this.

5)She said these things were facts in her last post of the corresponding thread--very libelous because they are not posted as opinion.

6)None of her accusations about BET were proven in any factual form. In fact, the head of BET is white.

About her deriding of Latinos and African-Americans:

They came from this thread about the May 1st protests across the United States.

The president of Mexico is sending people hereby the tens of thousands every day. He's quietly invading America. He KNOWS that when there are more Mexicans in California, New Mexico,and Arizona ... he knows that they'll want to either open wide the flood gates and let in all their mexican brethren or they will just annex those states back to Mexico.

The Mexican government SENDS their non-wage-earning people here. They know that if they are here, then their government doesn't have to pay for their welfare, their medical care, their child care, their anything. He's sending his criminals here .. his gangs here ... his dregs here.

He's dumping them here so he doesn't have to fix his own darn country.than unemployment and welfare.

This came from Page seven of the same thread:

I don't think that the mexican-american population votes republican. I'll have to look up stats ... but I'm pretty sure it's like the black population...democrat and social giveaways.

Obviously the Mexican invasion is good for the radical muslim terrorists ... so common sense says that they would loooooooove to see a war between the USA and Mexico.

[edit on 7-8-2006 by ceci2006]

I think "they" almost count on the fact that a discussion of this sort will deteriorate into a personal dialogue that pretty much puts an end to serious discussion. I think this has done more to help Romney in the end. Is that what anyone intended?

We really need to put this end of it to rest. Anyway to call a truce here and move on?