Homosexual Question

Now I am not racist or anything, but my kids asked me a question the other day and I honestly didn't know how to answer. Hope you can help me. I didn't know where to put this, that is in what space on BTS so I hope this is the right place.

My children asked me if gay people were a race, and they were serious. I don't know what to say. Maybe you all will consider me less than intellegent but I would like to answer their question.

Thank you all

That could be a very difficult question to answer, especially if you have younger kids. I am not sure if 'race' would be the correct term, however you could try this exercise with your kids. Its used (they say) to aide small groups in understanding what homosexuality is.

Race? How do you mean? Besides the human race?

Are black, yellow, brown, red or purple people a different race than white people? Sure there are slight differences concerning the genetic make-up, but nothing extreme enough to justify subdividing the species. Seems like the same question to me.

Or if you are of the school of thought that homosexuality is not genetic, but rather a choice/preference then I really don't see how that belief calls for a division of race ether. I don't like tofu, but I'm not going to claim I'm a drasticly different organism then people who do. You know, those damn tofu-eaters.

Point being there are enough things dividing us in the world; there's no reason to create more reasons then we are already faced with.




[edit on 31-7-2006 by Jonna]

This would be a perfect topic for Social Issues. Maybe a mod would move it for you.

Sexuality is not a means of defining race or dividing into race. If it were then we'd have to consider the heterosexual race, the homosexual race, the bisexual race, the pansexual race, and the asexual race. And any other forms of sexuality I missed.

A race is a distinct population of humans distinguished in some way from other humans. The most widely observed races are those based on skin color, facial features, ancestry, and genetics. Conceptions of race, as well as specific racial groupings, are often controversial due to their impact on social identity hence identity politics.

From an online dictionary. I cannot see how you can define sexuality as a race.

Originally posted by JediMaster
The most widely observed races are those based on skin color, facial features, ancestry, and genetics.

From an online dictionary. I cannot see how you can define sexuality as a race.

Why would sexual orientation be different than those listed above?

Originally posted by Zaimless
My children asked me if gay people were a race, and they were serious. I don't know what to say. Maybe you all will consider me less than intellegent but I would like to answer their question.

"Race" is (or was) usually defined by physical characteristics, although with modern DNA studies the notion of race has pretty much been either thrown out the window, or redefined as a group of people sharing certain specific DNA traits not found in a hypothetical "general" population. These "races" would include both males and females.

Gay people have yet to be proven to have specific shared DNA traits, so they probably wouldn't be considered a "race," and it certainly hasn't been established that the same factors are at work to determine both male and female homosexuality.

So, no, they aren't a race. At most, they might be considered a genetic sub-type, sort of along the lines of people who have green eyes, or people who are allergic to strawberries.



[edit on 31-7-2006 by Enkidu]

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Originally posted by JediMaster
The most widely observed races are those based on skin color, facial features, ancestry, and genetics.

From an online dictionary. I cannot see how you can define sexuality as a race.

Why would sexual orientation be different than those listed above?

Because for one thing we are not entirely sure of the nature of sexuality. Is it a choice or is it genetic. If it is a choice then you can't say it is a "race". If it is genetic then I am not sure of the ramifications for it to be called a "race" under genetics. I do not believe that we consider people who are hemophiliacs a "race".

I do not believe one genetic trait would carry enough lead so to speak to garner a title of "race". I can be wrong I don't know.

[edit on 7-31-2006 by JediMaster]

Originally posted by JediMaster
I do not believe one genetic trait would carry enough lead so to speak to garner a title of "race".

You know what race I hate? Those damn lactose intolerant people. Filthy bastards!


PS Lactose->milk->females->homosexuality
It's a joke...get it.

Originally posted by JediMaster
Sexuality is not a means of defining race or dividing into race. If it were then we'd have to consider the heterosexual race, the homosexual race, the bisexual race, the pansexual race, and the asexual race. And any other forms of sexuality I missed.

A race is a distinct population of humans distinguished in some way from other humans.

But from that definition, could you not consider homosexual's a 'race'.? All it states is that any group of people who are distinguished in some way from others?

It does not state that it must be physical characteristics that seperate.


There are many different definition of 'race,' so would it not depend on the definition you were using?

ex:

A local geographic or global human population distinguished as a more or less distinct group by genetically transmitted physical characteristics.(source)

By this definition, it could not, since homosexuality does not have physical characteristic.

b : a class or kind of people unified by shared interests, habits, or characteristics (Source)

By this definition it technically could.






[edit on 7/31/2006 by pstiffy]

However I don't believe that we divide people with different hair colors or eye colors into races.

The grounds are somewhat shaky for definition, after all as you pointed out pstiffy it would depend on the definition.

I mean for that second one all it says is

b : a class or kind of people unified by shared interests, habits, or characteristics

And by that technicly you could call hippies a race. After all most of them were united by the shared interest of peace and free love.

But let's also not forget that if you call homosexuality a race you must also call heterosexuality a race as well. And any other form of sexuality.

Originally posted by JediMaster
However I don't believe that we divide people with different hair colors or eye colors into races.

Very true. The only example of this I am aware of is the Nazism's definiton of the Aryan race.

The grounds are somewhat shaky for definition, after all as you pointed out pstiffy it would depend on the definition.

I mean for that second one all it says is

b : a class or kind of people unified by shared interests, habits, or characteristics

I know. It would make it much simpler if we only had 1 true definition.

And by that technicly you could call hippies a race. After all most of them were united by the shared interest of peace and free love.

By that definition any group could be a 'race'

But let's also not forget that if you call homosexuality a race you must also call heterosexuality a race as well. And any other form of sexuality.

Also true!



[edit on 7/31/2006 by pstiffy]

I don't believe they need to be designated as a race in order for us to hate them. We can legitimately hate them because of their behavior alone, regardless of ethnicity or cultural background. Kind of the way we hate people who like the Black Crowes.

I would just say people have different tastes and make different choices. Don't delve into the issue more than what your child is asking.

Originally posted by Zaimless
Now I am not racist or anything, but my kids asked me a question the other day and I honestly didn't know how to answer. Hope you can help me. I didn't know where to put this, that is in what space on BTS so I hope this is the right place.

My children asked me if gay people were a race, and they were serious. I don't know what to say. Maybe you all will consider me less than intellegent but I would like to answer their question.

Thank you all

Of course it's NOT a race. Being gay is just a healthy expression of sexuality.
How old are your kids?

[edit on 2-8-2006 by pARADISE]

I'm sure most races are capable of reproducing with each other.

1. The descendants of a common ancestor; a family, tribe, people, or nation, believed or presumed to belong to the same stock; a lineage; a breed. The whole race of mankind. (Shak) Whence the long race of alban fathers come. (Dryden)

www.biology-online.org...

A racial group is an extended family that is inbred to some degree.

www.vdare.com...

I'm of the thinking that reproduction is a major factor in defining race. A gay man and a gay woman could technically reproduce but if they did then that would make the whole point of seperating them as a 'race' obsolete. If gay couples reproduced to produce more gay people then, homosexuality as a race could be used.

In the field of sociology, it is accepted that there is currently only one race of humans on the planet. This is because humans have many more similarities than differences. We all walk upright, have two eyes, brain stem, 5 fingers and toes that are not webbed, etc.

Whether you believe that homosexuality is genetic or chosen, that is still only one characteristic. In my opinion, gay and straight people have many more similarities than they do differences. Both gay and straight people have about the same number of bones, both have opposable thumbs, cardio-vascular systems, methods of waste elimination, etc.

On a social level, everyone is just trying to do their jobs, pay their bills, keep gas in their cars, raise their kids, have some fun, get an education, etc. It's all pretty standard.

If it were my child who asked if gay people constituted a separate race, I would say no. Gay people are humans, they just have different inclinations in one area of life.

Originally posted by Zaimless
My children asked me if gay people were a race, and they were serious. I don't know what to say. Maybe you all will consider me less than intellegent but I would like to answer their question.

Thank you all

Homophilia is genetic question, as much as moral question as well. That's where to put this.

For example, if you are genetically strong and nervous, perhaps you could easily beat up anybody when you wanted to, you are nott going to do it , because you may follow its consequences.You decide not to hurt anybody. However, in a tribe you may want to show your strength in order to become more dominant among others, and you will be praised for that..

Homosexuality is the same. You may feel like doing it, holding the hands of the same gender, but you have to choose the right place to do it. Or else, you will be laughed at... or so on.