US - AER BILL will outlaw supplements AUG 2006??

one of the online stores that I purchase vitamins from is asking for support to stop the AER bill that will supposedly allow lawmakers and the pharm.inc to limit or condemn sales of nutritional supplements that have even casual association to heart attack, stroke, etc.

Natural Product Insider

Do a google search for: aer bill supplements

The bill is being put forth as a "regulation on an underregulated industry". It allows user level feedback to later appear as warnings on labels and bans on products. It seems that it will place power in the hands of pharm.inc lobbyists to outlaw more natural remedies in favor of petroluem/synthetic concoctions.

Let me know your thoughts.

concerned shaman,

Sri Oracle

Originally posted by Sri Oracle
one of the online stores that I purchase vitamins from is asking for support to stop the AER bill that will supposedly allow lawmakers and the pharm.inc to limit or condemn sales of nutritional supplements that have even casual association to heart attack, stroke, etc.

Natural Product Insider

Do a google search for: aer bill supplements

The bill is being put forth as a "regulation on an underregulated industry". It allows user level feedback to later appear as warnings on labels and bans on products. It seems that it will place power in the hands of pharm.inc lobbyists to outlaw more natural remedies in favor of petroluem/synthetic concoctions.

Let me know your thoughts.

concerned shaman,

Sri Oracle

Umm..did you even READ the article you posted?

All the bill does is requires manufacturers to report any adverse effects, no different than drug companies are required to do. It does nothing to condemn, limit, or ban any product whatsoever.

Please, for the love of god and everything holy, read the article before screaming "I'm being oppressed!!"

Mariella

Umm..did you even READ the article you posted?

All the bill does is requires manufacturers to report any adverse effects, no different than drug companies are required to do. It does nothing to condemn, limit, or ban any product whatsoever.

It seems to me that the bill is setting up a system by which users of herbal remedies would report in supposed side effects... even if the effect was in no way related to the supplement taken. Then those reports could be used to condemn the sale of the said herb; more than just product warnings.

I tend to think along the lines of the man who commented at the bottom of the article:

Its passage WILL be used as guilt by association to further damage the reputation and public confidence in dietary supplements. It WILL be used by lawyers to mine the records of dietary supplement companies for records of ALL adverse events, serious or otherwise. It COULD be used nefariously by any parties interested in smudging the reputation of dietary supplements by reporting an association (but not a causal link) between a supplement and an adverse event. Let the witch hunt begin.

Bill Sardi, Knowledge of Health, Inc.

And yes... I did read the article... and between the lines of the article.

I do see how such reporting could be beneficial... however I do feel Big Pharm oppression lurking.

The bill may not outwardly condemn, limit, or ban... but it does create a database, and that database can be statistically analyized to prove whatever you want given an anti-supplement agenda.

No?

sri oracle

[edit on 17-8-2006 by Sri Oracle]

Why are you afraid of there being a database charting supplements and their effects? Scared that mean old Mr. Science will show herbs can't cure much?

Mariella

Apparently none of you are familiar with codex alimentarius-a bill which has already passed and is now in the implementation stages. It has outlawed our access to dietary supplements except by prescription from a medical doctor (not naturopathic doctors). John Hammell from IAHF is spearheading the movement to repeal this repugnant legislation. You can access his site and learn all about this restriction to our rights to dietary supplements at www.IAHF.com. I've spent many hours talking to him and he is a committed, dedicated and passionate supporter of individual freedoms. IAHF stands for International Alliance for Health Freedom. If we join Canada and Mexico to become North America instead of 3 separate nations then we can expect to have the same access to dietary supplements that those 2 nations have. Some may see that as a good thing since so many Americans go to Mexico to get treatments that can't be gotten in the USA, however; as a nurse, I see and treat many of those returning from Mexico where there is little if any regulation on dosages, sterility, etc. It's not usually a pretty sight. Canada is a socialist nation and dietary supplements access is very limited and very regulated. It is very possible that we may wake up one day very soon and find that there is no more vitamins available on the shelves at wal-mart and the only way you can get them is with a prescription from your allopathically trained medical doctor who says you have an FDA approved need for them. In other words, no vitamin C unless you have a vitamin C deficiency as evidenced by scurvy. Vitamin C is not FDA approved for any other use. For those who think naturopathic remedies "don't work" and have no value except as an amusing old wives tale- please read Mosby's Handbook of Herbs and Natural Supplements. There are case studies cited under each herb listed stating the research done and results found regarding each herb. Many are being studied for their applications as antibiotics (having shown promise or previous results in that area), more efficient anti diabetic treatments than insulin. The list goes on but herbs are not "nonsense". They are a multibillion dollar industry for a reason and the pharmaceutical industry wants those multibillion dollars. This legislation ensures they'll get it while the herd is culled to a more manageable number.

Originally posted by whitewave
Apparently none of you are familiar with codex alimentarius-a bill which has already passed and is now in the implementation stages. It has outlawed our access to dietary supplements except by prescription from a medical doctor (not naturopathic doctors). John Hammell from IAHF is spearheading the movement to repeal this repugnant legislation. You can access his site and learn all about this restriction to our rights to dietary supplements at www.IAHF.com. I've spent many hours talking to him and he is a committed, dedicated and passionate supporter of individual freedoms. IAHF stands for International Alliance for Health Freedom. If we join Canada and Mexico to become North America instead of 3 separate nations then we can expect to have the same access to dietary supplements that those 2 nations have. Some may see that as a good thing since so many Americans go to Mexico to get treatments that can't be gotten in the USA, however; as a nurse, I see and treat many of those returning from Mexico where there is little if any regulation on dosages, sterility, etc. It's not usually a pretty sight. Canada is a socialist nation and dietary supplements access is very limited and very regulated. It is very possible that we may wake up one day very soon and find that there is no more vitamins available on the shelves at wal-mart and the only way you can get them is with a prescription from your allopathically trained medical doctor who says you have an FDA approved need for them. In other words, no vitamin C unless you have a vitamin C deficiency as evidenced by scurvy. Vitamin C is not FDA approved for any other use. For those who think naturopathic remedies "don't work" and have no value except as an amusing old wives tale- please read Mosby's Handbook of Herbs and Natural Supplements. There are case studies cited under each herb listed stating the research done and results found regarding each herb. Many are being studied for their applications as antibiotics (having shown promise or previous results in that area), more efficient anti diabetic treatments than insulin. The list goes on but herbs are not "nonsense". They are a multibillion dollar industry for a reason and the pharmaceutical industry wants those multibillion dollars. This legislation ensures they'll get it while the herd is culled to a more manageable number.

I find your entire post to be nonsense, considering in the last 30 days, I have bought iron supplements, multivitamin supplements, zinc supplements, and shark cartilage supplements.

Wow, really hard to get those now...had to walk all the way to the supermarket....

Mariella

it's fairly simple, you can buy anyting you want in homeopathic doses, but at normal prices. the rest you are not supposed to even know about FDA can ban anything they want, i guess that's all rubbish, too, what about Tryptophan ...or Secretin?


Wait a second, the search function needs to be outlawed, too i guess, because we've been trhough all of this a while ago, haven't we?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

let me get this straight, given your track record of sanctimonious denial of the obvious even when confronted with evidence, combined with immediate resumption of flinging your filthy PR on unsuspecting members and others, i stongly advise you to consider the following:

a) estimate the chances that someone from the medical field does not know about the codex alimentarius at all
a2) if you're from Europe, where vitamin supplements are strictly limited, the notion becomes ever more ridiculous
b) count # of members on this (med issues) board and then calculate (for yourself) the odds of succeeding (being overlooked)
c) imagine the effect on your intended targets? should be quite the opposite of what was intended, shouldn't it?
d) estimate the chances of successfully playing dumb and accusing me of paranoia (or everyone else in that thread for that matter)

do you know how this looks ?


some reading about WHO guidelines if anyone's interested

Anyone remember tryptophan?
It really worked. I used to take it until one day:

In 1989, a large outbreak of a new, disabling, and in some cases deadly autoimmune illness called eosinophilia-myalgia syndrome (EMS) was traced to L-tryptophan. The bacterial culture used to synthesize tryptophan by a major Japanese manufacturer, Showa Denko KK, had recently been genetically engineered to increase tryptophan production; with the higher tryptophan concentration in the culture medium, the purification process had also been streamlined to reduce costs, and a purification step that used charcoal absorption to remove impurities had been omitted. This allowed another bacterial metabolite through the purification, resulting in the presence of an end-product contaminant responsible for the toxic effects. The FDA was unable to establish with certainty that this was the sole cause of the outbreak. Tryptophan was banned from sale in the US, and other countries followed suit.

Though it is indisputable that Showa Denko KK did produce and sell a contaminated batch of L-tryptophan, there are some concerns that the FDA's handling of this accident unfairly favoured the pharmaceutical industry and the new antidepressant Prozac if only because of its curiously fortuitous timing. The March 22, 1990 ban on public sale of L-tryptophan came only four days before the media announcement of Prozac on March 26, 1990 in Newsweek magazine

en.wikipedia.org...
Coincidence? I think NOT!!!

As a person who tries with a good amount of success to handle as many health concerns as possible without MSMedicine, this is indeed troubling.


I can imagine patients paid to inform on natural remedies. The drug companies will stop at nothing, imho.

For information on the steering committee of the trilateral commission in charge of robbing us of our health supplements please refer to this site: www.fda.gov/oia/charter.html. look especially under "health fraud definitions" they have listed and "disclosure" and "laboratory cooperation" (which is the U.S. division of the Trilateral Group comprised of Canada, US, and Mexico). One of the "key priorities" listed was "further explore an exercise of the salmonella test".
To further explore the disappearance of our access to supplements check out: We Become Silent by Kevin P. Miller. Other sites expounding my "nonsense" are: www.thelawloft.com/Freedom/005012_us_law.htm and www.alliance-natural-health.org/_docs/ANHwebsiteDoc_213.pdf.
I apologize for not being computer literate enough to know how to insert links on my posting. Some of us are being dragged into the 21st century kicking and screaming. Thanks for your patience. The information presented affects us all. When I said that supplements had been banned I also said we're in the enforcement phase of that. It's called step 8 of the codex alimentarius. Unless we fight for our access to dietary supplements they'll be off the shelves soon enogh and it will give me no pleasure to say, "i told ya so."

I love it when alarmists can be drawn in by a website and someone trying to hock a book.

Mariella

Originally posted by bsl4doc
Why are you afraid of there being a database charting supplements and their effects? Scared that mean old Mr. Science will show herbs can't cure much?

Mariella

Mariella,
As you plan to practice medicine in Europe, and are studying it there, are you so sure you know what the Medical/Drug Industry is up to in America
As I'm sure you are aware, some countries in Europe have a far more flexible approach to alternative medical practices.
Something that makes the AMA and other MSM blanch
Some MD s in this country think chiropractors are quacks and charlatans.

It is in no way a stretch of the imagination to think that Big Drugs and Big Medicine not only want a portion of the HUGE supplements industry in America, they want to CONTROL it.

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe

Originally posted by bsl4doc
Why are you afraid of there being a database charting supplements and their effects? Scared that mean old Mr. Science will show herbs can't cure much?

Mariella

Mariella,
As you plan to practice medicine in Europe, and are studying it there, are you so sure you know what the Medical/Drug Industry is up to in America

Except for my parents, almost my entire family lives in USA (DC and New York), and I have spent summers visiting them most years, including this year.

As I'm sure you are aware, some countries in Europe have a far more flexible approach to alternative medical practices.

You must not have ever visited Italy, France, or Eastern Europe...

Some MD s in this country think chiropractors are quacks and charlatans.

Well, considering their practice is based on providing an assuredly temporary fix to a chronic condition...

It is in no way a stretch of the imagination to think that Big Drugs and Big Medicine not only want a portion of the HUGE supplements industry in America, they want to CONTROL it.

Wouldn't it make more sense for them to just buy the companies out or make drugs out of the supplements rather than ban them if they wanted to control it? But then, that's just common sense...

Mariella

Mariella, I did say some countries, and as you well know those you mentioned conveniently are not lenient or forward-thinking about alternative treatments. :shk:

As for chiropractic providing a temporary fix, you MUST be referring to MSM who often treat the symptom rather than the source.
As a happy chiropractic patient, I can confidently say you are wrong about that statement.

Did you stop to consider that the alternative health companies dopn't want to be bought by MSM?
Or that the consumer/patient does NOT want yet another drug. I guess you don't get it that a LOT of people want to take their health care into their own hands and not rely on MSM. We want alternative choices and don't want the government to interfere.
We don't want or need the government of MSM telling us what is good for us :shk:

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
Or that the consumer/patient does NOT want yet another drug. I guess you don't get it that a LOT of people want to take their health care into their own hands and not rely on MSM. We want alternative choices and don't want the government to interfere.
We don't want or need the government of MSM telling us what is good for us :shk:

The last time important medical care was "in our hands", things like bloodletting and spirit possession were common...

I think that answer is for more doctors to treat patients as human beings rather than subjects, not to supplant modern medicine.

Mariella

Original Article

If passed, the bill will require companies to include on their product labels an address or phone number through which consumers can report adverse events that they associate with their use of a supplement or OTC drug. These companies will be required to notify FDA of any serious AERs they receive within 15 business days.

You know what? We ought to have this for prescription drugs. Why are they excluded, they certainly have a lot more side affects, many that don't come out till they are already approved. Over the years I've had more problems and repercussions from prescriptions than anything I've messed with at the supplement counter.

I really do think we are headed down a path to losing access to our supplements in the US and it worries me a lot. I have suffered 15+ years with a chronic condition. I can get relief from certain scripts if I can find a Dr. willing to prescribe them. But that is relief, not improvement in my condition. I have found things over the years outside of scripts that improve me. I've admittedly wasted a lot of money and time trying things that don't, but that is a chance I choose to take. Most things that I have tried that do nothing, at least rule out for me (depending on what it targets) the cause of my condition which over time helps me to move on to try to get to the bottom of this. No Dr. has the time to put into researching me, I have to do this on my own. If I have to rely on a Dr. having enough backbone to let me try new things to improve a condition they admit they haven't a clue about I'm in big trouble.

That may not be the Drs. fault as much as the insurance companies they answer to which has adulterated our medical care so badly over the past 20 years it's a joke, I don't know. All I know at this point is that I'm an educated adult and I know my body better than any Dr. who doesn't have time to figure it out, and if I want to take something, and am willing to take the risks it should be my choice.

In the end I do truly believe that any regulation of our supplements in the US is totally NOT for our protection, but for the benefit of the big drug companies, and you will never convince me otherwise. Just look at what has become of conditions that are an expected part of aging in many circumstances. Everything is now something that requires long term pill popping. The minute you hit 40 they start trying to indoctrinate you to all types of things that are making someone rich and a lot of older people on fixed incomes and Medicare pretty darn strapped.

I think that answer is for more doctors to treat patients as human beings rather than subjects.

Mariella - I just don't believe that will ever happen again (it was once that way), in the US what I see is a trend away from this, with the last of the "family Drs." who did reaching retirement and dropping off the map.

Hey BS Doc,
The site I posted was the home page for the FDA. If I've been "hooked into it" then I propose that you have been hooked by the FDA as well since you are not allowed to prescribe anything they have not approved. Also, they were not selling any books, tapes, videos, etc. on their site. Please get your facts straight before you speak condescendingly on subjects you obviously have not researched. By the way, why would big pharmaceutical companies want to pay billions to buy out the alternative therapies businesses when it would be much cheaper to buy legislation that will force the pesky beggars out for you?
Honey, I've been a critical care nurse for 16 years and I'm waaaaaayyyy past the time of being impressed with the title "Doctor". I've seen too many outright stupid ones and quite a few dangerous ones, not to mention the arrogant, megalomaniacal, thoughtless, callous ones. Since it's obvious you didn't check out the sites I referenced, your opinion is another among many of the uninformed, swaggering, belicose braggart types so common among your profession.
The loss of our access to dietary supplements and alternative (to allopathic) treatments is a serious issue and needs discussion and plans of action among serious minded lovers of freedom. We can pick up patranizing prattle anywhere. Thanks for playing. Next.

Originally posted by bsl4doc
The last time important medical care was "in our hands", things like bloodletting and spirit possession were common...

this is wrong, for various reasons, factually, because bloodletting and exorcism were performed by the establishment in these days, people like Semmelweis who kept muttering about hygiene were the quacks. then the quacks became mainstream and just as intolerant.


secondly, because you implicitly advocate 'informed' dictatorship (we're too stupid, right?). unfortunately, dictatorship, just as any other absolute term, does not need any adjectives. nice show, btw, ignoring my post and doing business as usual.

i predict you're not winning many hearts around here.

Originally posted by whitewave
Hey BS Doc,
The site I posted was the home page for the FDA. If I've been "hooked into it" then I propose that you have been hooked by the FDA as well since you are not allowed to prescribe anything they have not approved. Also, they were not selling any books, tapes, videos, etc. on their site. Please get your facts straight before you speak condescendingly on subjects you obviously have not researched. By the way, why would big pharmaceutical companies want to pay billions to buy out the alternative therapies businesses when it would be much cheaper to buy legislation that will force the pesky beggars out for you?
Honey, I've been a critical care nurse for 16 years and I'm waaaaaayyyy past the time of being impressed with the title "Doctor". I've seen too many outright stupid ones and quite a few dangerous ones, not to mention the arrogant, megalomaniacal, thoughtless, callous ones. Since it's obvious you didn't check out the sites I referenced, your opinion is another among many of the uninformed, swaggering, belicose braggart types so common among your profession.
The loss of our access to dietary supplements and alternative (to allopathic) treatments is a serious issue and needs discussion and plans of action among serious minded lovers of freedom. We can pick up patranizing prattle anywhere. Thanks for playing. Next.

Amen to that, and you are getting my way above vote right now! Thank you for telling it like it is.

-ADHD

I still don't see where people are getting the impression that their supplements are being taken away from them. You equate having a number to report side effects to taking supplements off the shelf? That's a bit moronic.

Also, to reply to a few posters, yes, I do feel most people are unable to handle their own medical care. Most people on htis board are very well informed, however, you people do not represent the majority of the world. I don't know how many patients I've seen getting their stomachs pumped or getting IV fluids to counteract dangerous combinations of herbs or supplements. People in general are ignorant when it comes to medicines, and most refuse to take the time to educate themselves.

I mean, Christ, why do you think we have a poison control hotline? It's not because kids everywhere are chugging chemicals around the house. It's because people, often adults, tend to ingest things they aren't supposed to.

Mariella

Originally posted by bsl4doc
I still don't see where people are getting the impression that their supplements are being taken away from them. You equate having a number to report side effects to taking supplements off the shelf? That's a bit moronic.

Mariella, you are the one who doesn't get it :shk:

Pharmaceutical companies have spent billions of dollars trying to get Washington to regulate your dietary supplements like European governments do. So far, that effort has failed in America, in part because of a 1994 law called the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act. Big Pharma and the medical establishment hate this Act, because it allows consumers some measure of freedom to buy the supplements they want. Americans like this freedom, however-- especially the health conscious Baby Boomers.

The largely government-run health care establishment, including the nominally private pharmaceutical companies, want government to control the dietary supplement industry-- so that only they can manufacture and distribute supplements. If that happens, as it already is happening in Europe, the supplements you now take will be available only by prescription and at a much higher cost-- if they are available at all. This alone is sufficient reason for Congress to oppose the unconstitutional, sovereignty-destroying CAFTA bill.

www.house.gov...
Ron Paul is one of the few politicians I trust. This is from one of his speech's last year.

And, now, MSM is trying yet again to regulate my life even more with this AER Bill. We do not need the government in our medicine cabinets.
Sorry.