A really crazy what if about the anthrax letters

goose this has been a pet peeve of mine for some time..robert stevens of the Sun tabloid was the first to die because he said somethig about the bush twins..i found pics. of a passed out naked jenna bush(white thong only) beer bottles every where on a pinic table..taken when she was buying land for daddy bush down in paraguay..it was on the smirking chimp site and lol and behold it was gone the next day..a dry drunk daddy can be quite vindickive..put him in the white house and see him smoke 3000 of our own just to show off laser beam wepons..for a guy that used to blow heads of of baby birds with fire-crackers..he should git bigger body gardes for his offspring so they dont lose there cell phones to 3rd world lovers..now you know why this guy is so cocky..hes been doing it for ever..and the world has taken notis..and there arming there selfs to the 9s.....now on the lighter side..isnt sending antharx thu the mail a federal crime?..is being a dry drunk a feesable defence?....i whish the hell he would go back to the bottle and start doing lines agine..he could start re-connecting with his off-spring and partying with the best of us.

www.abovetopsecret.com...'

And it completely escaped me at the time that Prescott Bush had been Senator for Connecticut in the 50s and 60s. Nice work, Goose.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

It really adds up.

It adds up? What adds up?

The guy is a proven liar.

What are the proven lies? Did he lie to the FBI? Isnt that a crime?
Please link me to the proof of his lies.

He had the motive

What was his motive? What was his gain? Isnt he unemployed and blacklisted?
Does he have stock in the anthrax detection equipment that was installed at a handfull of post offices? Did he think the CDC would appoint him 'grandmaster of anthrax protection'?
I cant see what motive he had to kill Americans and make it look like Muslims were responsible.

He had access to the goods.

So did atleast half a dozen other mother huggers. Access to 'the goods' does not constitute guilt.

The attacks played out something that he had bragged to his fellow workers that would happen.

Bragged?
I would be interested in reading some of your source material, if its not all classified.

The minute the government started watching him, the attacks stopped.

Or maybe, if you remember correctly, the attacks stopped and THEN, a few weeks later, the FBI started looking at him.
I like how you phrase that, 'the minute the government started watching him', its like they busted him red-handed but were then unable to prove what he was doing.

It's him.

Its not him, but you are free to think what you want.
I just hope I never get you in my jury pool.

Yes, the anthrax letters were sent to members of the media (Tom Brokaw) and to members of the opposition party (Tom Daschel) in a
not so subtle attempt to silence any and all opposition.
Whats scarier than realizing your government has been hijacked and the perpeTRAITORS have the ability to send you a letter in the mail that will kill you.

Originally posted by DrVolin
www.abovetopsecret.com...'

And it completely escaped me at the time that Prescott Bush had been Senator for Connecticut in the 50s and 60s. Nice work, Goose.

Nice Thread Doc!
Its amazing that threads like yours above never get any attention....or is it?
Now that guy in your thread, he had motive.
Hatfill had no motive, but just by hanging his name out there he has been tried and convicted in the public arena (FF).
Deny, deny, deny.

I just hope I never get you in my jury pool.

You planning something??

Why was the strain destroyed so no comparasion could be made? Why nobody opposing the Patriot Act got letters? How come noone from Fox News got a letter? Anthrax attack was done for political purposes, and IMHO, didn't come from the Muslim Extremists. Why the first one so near where Atta trained, maybe to make it easier to connect it to them. Florida has been an interesting state for the Bush's....hasn't it?

Originally posted by wittleryouth
goose this has been a pet peeve of mine for some time..robert stevens of the Sun tabloid was the first to die because he said somethig about the bush twins..i found pics. of a passed out naked jenna bush(white thong only) beer bottles every where on a pinic table..

Just to clarify, the pic you are referring to is NOT one of the bush daughters. That pic has been going around the net for years, and is not them. However, I have seen many others. Drunk twins falling down drunk. One of them changing into a bikini on the beach and giving quite the view of you know what, etc, etc.

There was another victim much like Ottilie Lundgren, no one could figure out how she got exposed, though the anthrax was found on her clothes, but nothing was found showing how she got exposed when they investigated, her name was Kathy Nguyen.

www.ph.ucla.edu...

[edit on 23-6-2007 by goose]

Now that Im thinking about it I seem to recall reading somewhere that the alleged photos that The Enquirer had were Skull and Bones related.
Pertaining to the nude masturbation ritual in the coffin if I remember correctly.
Wish I could remember where I read that.

Originally posted by 11Bravo
What are the proven lies?

He lied on his resume. He said he had a PhD .. he didn't.

Of lesser interest - he failed his lie detector test.
(which really doesn’t mean that much)

eatthestate.org...

What was his motive? What was his gain?

Crazy people have their own motives and their own version of 'gain'.
He said over and over that it would happen. Having it happen
makes him look ‘smart’ and gives him the attention he wants. Only,
it backfired when he became a suspect instead of ‘the smart one’ who
warned people.

www.baltimoresun.com...

So did at least half a dozen other mother huggers.

Only a very few people in the USA could make the weapons grade that was sent.
Hatfill was one of them. He holds FIVE classified patents on weapons grade anthrax.

He has had experience with this before. Hatfill claimed he served with the Special Forces of the white Rhodesian government in it’s civil war against black rebels in the late 1970s. This is the same time that the largest anthrax outbreak among humans has ever happened (in recorded history). 10,000 black farmers in Rhodesia in 1978-1980 – same time as Hatfill was there.

Oh .. and there was that ‘study’ he did with someone named ‘Patrick’ – on weaponized anthrax being sent through the US Mail system …

The DNA analysis of the first anthrax attack was traced to Hatfills place of employment - the US Army Medical Research Institute for Infectious Diseases (USAMRID). Hatfill had access to it. Very few others did.

Its not him, but you are free to think what you want.

It's him. But thanks for the permission to think what ever I want.

I will grant you those are some interesting tidbits.
The Rodesian thing makes me think he was CIA.
Curious that someone of his intelligence (five classified patents on weaponized anthrax?) has no PHD, isnt it?

From my vantage point it appears that Hatfill would be the perfect person to pin something like the anthrax attacks on.
Kinda like the same way it appears to me that Osama is the perfect person to pin 9/11 on.
Another similarity between Hatfill and Osama is that neither one has been charged with anything related to 9/11 or anthrax.
One more similarity is the way that popular consesus is that both are guilty, even before either has been afforded a trial.

Edit to add a story from my way past.
I lived in an apartment complex in Fla for a while in my youth.
Long story short me and a couple other youths never had any money and we were always hungry.
One day while sitting by the pool one of us joked about ordering a pizza to an apartment, then waiting for the delivery guy and snatching his pizza when he came to deliver it.
We were 15 years old and it was really just smack talk/jokes from some poor kids. None of us were about to rob the pizza man.
Low and behold if a few days later the pizza guy didnt get robbed in our area!
Who do you think the cops came to talk to? Me.
Who do you think was already guilty in the eyes of everyone? Me.
I didnt steal the pizza, but everyone is convinced I did.
Luckily I had an alibi, but I personally know from experience that things arent always (rarely) like they appear.


[edit on 23-6-2007 by 11Bravo]

Well it seems that microbiologists are dropping like flies. apparently there have been lots of these people dying under mysterious circumstances, many clear cases of murder. Some think this may be related to the anthrax case, apparently based on insurance estimates and numbers it's too high, a red flag.

gatorpress.com...
www.halturnershow.com...

FlyersFan, I want to thank you for helping me deny my ignorant ways.
I read the links you provided.
Good stuff indeed.
I agree with you now, Hatfill is most likely guilty.
He is also most likely CIA.
From your link...

Finally, various US newspapers recently reported that, during his 1999 employment at SAIC Corp, Hatfill and another employee had commissioned a study to describe how anthrax spores could be weaponized, sealed in ordinary business envelopes, and mailed to targets in the US. The newspapers reported that Hatfill undertook the study on his own; however, some of Hatfill's colleagues have come forward to correct the record: Hatfill was working under contract for the CIA at the time, and the CIA had commissioned the study.

So the Skull and Bones governmental off-shoot also known as the CIA
is ulimatly behind the anthrax attacks, and they are protecting their man Hatfill because he is still usefull to them.

Thanks again for having the patience to help me deny my ignorance.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by 11Bravo
No doubt at all?

No. None.

Why is he not in jail?

Why isn't OJ Simpson in jail? Guilty people get away with crimes.

Yeah, and why is Osama not in jail?

HOW was he able to weaponize the anthrax?

I'm not an expert in the field so I have no idea. But he is. Ask HIM.

Didn't he do it in special box with gloves and stuff and threw it in a pond behind his house? First place they looked and boom the evidence.

It really adds up. The guy is a proven liar. He had the motive and the
opportunity.

His motive is thought to be to warn America about how vulnerable we were to bioterror attack, something the government itself was trying to do at te time. He may also have known about the USA PATRIOT Act and wanted to help it get passed by intimidating tw top Dem Senators. (Majority Leader and Judiciary Committee leader). Perhaps he also had a beef with the dude who took a raw photo of the Bush's daughter. (he's actually an editor tho, I didn't think a photographer). And the media! Hey, who does't get mad at the left-wing talking heads sometimes and fantasize sending them Anthrax disguised as Al Qaeda and scaring them a bit?

Aparently Hatfil has some complex motives, as well as the means and the opportunity, the 9/11 attacks he able to follow up on within a week.

He had access to the goods. The attacks played out
something that he had bragged to his fellow workers that would happen.
The minute the government started watching him, the attacks stopped.

The Anthrax letters were sent over a period from September 18 to 25th. The first person died on October 2. Authorities hen started investigating, but whoever was already done. So you got this one wrong anyway.

It's him.

It's doubt. It's your friend. Don't turn it out TOO easily.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
He lied on his resume. He said he had a PhD .. he didn't.

Of lesser interest - he failed his lie detector test.
(which really doesn’t mean that much)

Crazy people have their own motives and their own version of 'gain'.
He said over and over that it would happen. Having it happen
makes him look ‘smart’ and gives him the attention he wants. Only,
it backfired when he became a suspect instead of ‘the smart one’ who
warned people.

Only a very few people in the USA could make the weapons grade that was sent.
Hatfill was one of them. He holds FIVE classified patents on weapons grade anthrax.

He has had experience with this before. Hatfill claimed he served with the Special Forces of the white Rhodesian government in it’s civil war against black rebels in the late 1970s. This is the same time that the largest anthrax outbreak among humans has ever happened (in recorded history). 10,000 black farmers in Rhodesia in 1978-1980 – same time as Hatfill was there.

Oh .. and there was that ‘study’ he did with someone named ‘Patrick’ – on weaponized anthrax being sent through the US Mail system …

The DNA analysis of the first anthrax attack was traced to Hatfills place of employment - the US Army Medical Research Institute for Infectious Diseases (USAMRID). Hatfill had access to it. Very few others did.

Thanks FF for the rhodesia facts and other useful insights. Indeed, these kinds of things are why I said there's evidence and it's too thick. There's a video I saw that shows just how thick - and IMO it's too perfect.
BBC & Learning Channel - Anthrax Investigation Documentary looking into the anthrax letters and who really sent them - Real Player - www.thedossier.ukonline.co.uk...
Hatfill was framed, or he framed himself as some complex counter-defense. Whatever. It's more than just "he's clearly guilty" and somehow is still free. This all ties together somehow - they need a patsy to simplify blame - crazy Rhodesia guy - and yet knew they couldn't actually prosecute it, maybe because they don't want the rest of the evidence comig out. Best to settle up, pay the guy off to stay under the cloud, and move on with the desired effects. Eh?

As for "Patrick:"

Hatfill is a protege of William Patrick, a former bioweapons expert at the Fort Detrick center when it ran an offensive biological weapons program in the late 1960s. Patrick has acknowledged helping scientists at Dugway Proving Ground in Utah make dry or "weaponized" anthrax a few years ago.

www.rense.com...


PS - great thread-starter Goose! This episode is key to understanding 9/11 and what came after.

[edit on 23-6-2007 by Caustic Logic]

White House staff reportedly started taking antibiotic cipro on 9/11/01

www.washingtonpost.com...

First wave of anthrax letter mailed out one week later on 9/18/01

en.wikipedia.org...-weapons_experts

Great work goose

Here's some anthrax goodies I found:

October 2, 2001 (A): The "anti-terrorism" USA Patriot Act is introduced in Congress, but is not well received by all. One day later, Senate Majority Leader and future anthrax target Tom Daschle (D) says he doubts the Senate will take up this bill in the one-week timetable the administration wants. As head of the Senate, Daschle has great power to block or slow passage of the bill. [Washington Post, 10/3/01] On October 4, Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman and future anthrax target Patrick Leahy (D) accuses the Bush administration of reneging on an agreement on the anti-terrorist bill. Leahy is in a key position to block or slow the bill. [Washington Post, 10/4/01] The anthrax letters to Daschle and Leahy are sent out on October 9.

wanttoknow.info

October 4, 2001: The first case of anthrax infection, in Florida, appears in the media. Letters containing anthrax continue to be received until October 19. Anthrax letters are sent to NBC, New York Post, Democratic Senator Daschle and Democratic Senator Leahy. There are a number of hoax letters, however, likely sent by the same person to all the recipients of the real anthrax letters, plus to CBS, Fox News, New York Times, and the St. Petersberg Times. Eleven people are infected, five people die. [South Florida Sun-Sentinel, 12/01]

wanttoknow.info

October 10-11, 2001: The FBI allows the original batch of the Ames strain of anthrax to be destroyed, making tracing the anthrax type more difficult. Suspicions that the anthrax used in the letters was the Ames strain are confirmed on October 17. [New York Times, 11/9/01, South Florida Sun-Sentinel, 12/01] What possible excuse can the FBI have for allowing this destruction, especially when the Ames strain was already suspected?

wanttoknow.info

Check out this guy...

April 4, 2002: Dr. David Franz, a former commander of USAMRIID, says of the anthrax attacks: "I think a lot of good has come from it. From a biological or a medical standpoint, we've now five people who have died, but we've put about $6 billion in our budget into defending against bioterrorism." Plentiful evidence suggests that the anthrax came from USAMRIID, but investigators say they have no suspects at all. They also say they have come up "against some closely held military secrets" which are slowing down the investigation. "Federal investigators tell ABC News that military and intelligence agencies have withheld a full listing of all facilities and all employees dealing with top-secret anthrax programs where important leads could be found." [ABC News, 4/4/02]

wanttoknow.info

"I think a lot of good has come from it."
WHAT??

It's a shame we can't do more to
get a proper investigation going..

And here's some goodies on the dead scientists:

Nov 12, 2001—Mar 25, 2002: 13 renowned microbiologists mysteriously die over the span of less than five months. All but one or two are killed or murdered under unusual circumstances. Some are world leaders in developing weapons-grade biological plagues. Others are the best in figuring out how to stop millions from dying because of biological weapons. Still others are experts in the theory of bioterrorism. [Globe and Mail, 5/4/02, NY Times 08/11/02]

wanttoknow.info

Nov 12: Benito Que, 52, an expert in infectious diseases—killed in carjacking, later deemed possible stroke. [Globe and Mail, 5/4/02]

Nov. 16: Don Wiley, 57, one of the world's leading researchers of deadly viruses—body found in Mississippi River. [CNN, 12/22/01]

Nov 21: Dr. Vladimir Pasechnik, 64, an expert in adapting germs and viruses for military use—stroke. [NY Times, 11/23/01]

Dec 10: Dr. Robert Schwartz, 57, a leading researcher on DNA sequencing analysis—slain at home. [Washington Post, 12/12/01]

Dec 14: Nguyen Van Set, 44, his research organization had just come to fame for discovering a virus which can be modified to affect smallpox—dies in an airlock in his lab. [Sydney Morning Herald, 12/12/01]

Jan 2002: Ivan Glebov (bandit attack) and Alexi Brushlinski (killed in Moscow), both world-renowned members of the Russian Academy of Science. [Pravda, 2/9/02]

Feb 9: Victor Korshunov, 56, head of the microbiology sub-faculty at the Russian State Medical University—killed by cranial injury. [Pravda, 2/9/02]

Feb 11: Ian Langford, 40, one of Europe's leading experts on environmental risk—murdered in home. [London Times, 2/13/02]

Feb 28 (2): Tanya Holzmayer, 46, helped create drugs that interfere with replication of the virus that causes AIDS, and Guyang Huang, 38, a brilliant scholar highly regarded in genetics—murder/suicide. [San Jose Mercury News, 2/28/02]

Mar 24: David Wynn-Williams, 55, an astrobiologist with NASA Ames Research Center—killed while jogging. [London Times, 3/27/02]

Mar 25: Steven Mostow, 63, an expert on the threat of bioterrorism—private plane crash. [KUSA TV/NBC, 3/26/02]

wanttoknow.info

Someone's been busy.

From what I have read, experts say there were possibly, maybe five-twenty people with the knowledge and access to the strain of anthrax that was used. Which means at the most there were only twenty suspects to look at, the FBI also traced it down to where they actually found the mailbox the letters were sent from.

I wonder if there are any shops with security cameras nearby? All of you google earth experts out there, get us a picture, the address is below, some of the letters were postmarked Trenton N.J., but the letters are believed to have been mailed from 10 Nassau Street, Princeton N.J.. TIA

en.wikipedia.org...
The anthrax letters are believed to have been mailed from Princeton, New Jersey. In August 2002, investigators found anthrax spores in a city street mailbox located at 10 Nassau Street near the Princeton University campus. About 600 mailboxes that could have been used to mail the letters were tested for anthrax. The box on Nassau Street was the only one to test positive.

Originally posted by 11Bravo
FlyersFan, I want to thank you for helping me deny my ignorant ways.

You aren't ignorant. Not at all.

I read the links you provided.

GOOD! Lots of times I post links but the are just dismissed and not bothered with.

Hatfill is most likely guilty.He is also most likely CIA.

Yep. I fully believe he's guilty. I also fully believe that at some point he was working with the CIA. I don't know if he was when the attacks took place .. but at some point he was. We agree!

I don't think the CIA ordered the Antrax attack. I think that they have a loose end - Hatfill - and he acted on his own to try to be 'the big man' - the one who foresaw 'it' coming etc etc ... IF the CIA had ordered the attack then they would have covered their tracks better and not used the weapons grade anthrax from Maryland. They can do better than that.

Edited to add - as far as the White House taking CIPRO right after the terrorist attacks .. I don't think that's as big a deal as ya'll think. Think back to that time - we had just been attacked. There was A LOT of chatter about further attacks coming. Everyone was hyped up. The White House was on the terror hit list (flight 93) and still is ... There had been a lot of talk about anthrax being used as a weapon and our troops had been getting vaccinations for years. Putting everyone on CIRPRO for a while makes sense in those hyper-paranoid days just after 9/11. IMHO



[edit on 6/24/2007 by FlyersFan]

Well if you think they should have been put on cipro as a precaution so it is no big deal, then why not put everyone at the Pentagon, and the Senate and the Congress on cipro as well?

Why were the two Senators targeted with letters addressed to them, the two that were opposing the patriot act and the same two that had the power to make a difference? Why weren't other Senator's targeted?

There were a wide variety of ways to use chemical and biological weapons and of course this would require a wide variety of ways or medications or treatments to use to fight the chemical or biological weapons, but just out of sheer coincidence and luck someone made a lucky guess and put the white house staff on the one needed a week before the letters were even mailed out. I don't buy it!