We need to implement clean energy now!

It is obvious that global warming is here and we need to get off the fossil fuels now. I have a plan as to how.
we need to convert to bio-diesel fuel but it is has economical and scientific hurdles to overcome and so it isn't happening. the main reason is that it is currently ineffective to produce it with oil from plants. it is estimated it would take a land mass that is 2x the size of the united states to make enough bio-diesel to fuel the united states if soy was used. this is not going happen obviously.

another solution that is being looked into is ethanol. it is said that it takes more energy to produce a gallon of ethanol than a gallon of ethanol can provide in an internal combustion engine. however Brazil has taken initiative and implemented 20% ethanol at the gas pump and may internal combustion engines there use methanol. they use sugar cane to distill the alcohol.

it currently DOES for a fact take more petro based fuel to make one gallon, approximately 1.32 units to one.

Bio-diesel fuel requires only 3 ingredients, raw vegetable/plant oil (or animal fat), ethanol (or methanol), and sodium (or potasium) hydroxide. if one were to use solar power as much as possible in the process it would reduce the amount of fuel used to make fuel, and result in a much more efficient process.

The part that i cannot find information is this: there is allegedly some form(s) of algae that can be grown in salt water in a desert environment that will yield up to 50% oil. That is pretty much all the information i have. i found out most of my info on bio-diesel on journeytoforever.org, but they only briefly mention the algae. if anyone knows something about this please post anything you can. thanks in advance.

anyway, assuming this is not just a rumor, the whole operation could be run in the desert. the sand to make the solar panels is there. the solar power is there. you can grow dates and cranberries and other shallow water or underground fruits to brew the ethanol. all you need is a couple billion dollars to convert a few square miles of desert to an 'energy farm'. Im sure with a few more billion in research they could genetically engineer something that would produce enough oil to efficiently make fuel.

the only downside is that the nitrogen emissions of bio-diesel are rather high. again, with enough money for R&D this could be overcome.

if the current situation continues the planet will soon be the largest mass grave known to man.

You have a good memory...that's also my recollection on the algae, exactly. 50% oil yield. I found all this stuff a week or two back, including who has the algal cultures for sale.

IIRC they haven't tried refining it yet. But I don't see why you couldn't convert it to biodiesel.

I'll go see if it's in my history log, brb.

[hr]

No point adding another post, I'll just edit some url's onto the end of this one:

www.unh.edu...
Great page with lots of links

www.americanenergyindependence.com...
An interesting twist...could you use existing waste water treatment algae ponds?

www.greenfuelonline.com...
A little off topic but still interesting variation

www.oilgae.com...
Generally interesting

files.foundation-imagine.org...
Interesting but grain of salt needed

www.nrel.gov...
Good one

biz.yahoo.com...
company formed to produce some

thefraserdomain.typepad.com...
more on petrosun and 'algae biofuels inc'


[edit on 30-7-2006 by Tom Bedlam]

Originally posted by jprophet420
It is obvious that global warming is here and we need to get off the fossil fuels now. I have a plan as to how.

we need to convert to bio-diesel fuel...another solution that is being looked into is ethanol

Before we go too far into this, how is simply burning another type of hydrocarbon going to help global warming? I hope you know that burning ethanol or bio-diesel still produces both carbon monoxide and carbon dioxide. We need to stop burning fossil fuels for economic independence from ass-hats in texas and the middle-east but we need to stop burning hydrocarbons for the atmosphere.

Jon

Jon, you're missing a link here.

The carbon compounds that make up ethanol and algal fuel are taken FROM the atmosphere first.

The plants take the CO2 out of the atmosphere. That's where the carbon comes from to form the sugars and oils. So you have a net environmental carbon gain of zero when you burn them.

Why is it obvious that global warming is here? Can I look out my window and see any of the obvious signs?
Why do we need to get off fosil fuels so soon at such economic cost? I think fossil fuels are cheap and effecient, though I assume their quantity is finite and sooner than later we may need to find an alternative.

I have to say your plan is poor. What company on earth is going to invest their capital into:

anyway, assuming this is not just a rumor

?

Why is it obvious that global warming is here? Can I look out my window and see any of the obvious signs?

yes. it is blatantly obvious.

as i mentioned even if it isnt a rumor R&D can make it a reality (even tho the link has been posted by Tom, thanks).

if the can geneticaly engineer popcorn they can make alternative fuels viable.

Blatantly obvious? I am looking at my car which has a bit of mist collected over the night. No sign of global warming. And who is 'they'? Geneticaly engineered popocorn=commercial fuels? Which engineering school did you flunk out of?

Originally posted by nogirt
Blatantly obvious? I am looking at my car which has a bit of mist collected over the night. No sign of global warming. And who is 'they'? Geneticaly engineered popocorn=commercial fuels? Which engineering school did you flunk out of?

well if you cant read the sign it doesent mean it isnt there. there was less dew on your car last year and there will be less next year as temperatures rise.

as far as the popcorn, Orville Redenbacher genetically engineered a strain of popcorn to have 800% more volume (post popping) than popcorn before. thats R&D at its finest. i'm saying if he can do it we can do it ('it' being research ways to develop plants that have properties we desire/need).

Originally posted by jprophet420
It is obvious that global warming is here and we need to get off the fossil fuels now.

Why is if obvious that if global warming exists we must stop using fossil fuels? THe one does not necessarily follow the other, only if the warming is caused by the use of fossil fuels does that make sense (I'll agree that it looks like it does, but its not 'obvious').

anyway, assuming this is not just a rumor, the whole operation could be run in the desert. the sand to make the solar panels is there. the solar power is there. you can grow dates and cranberries and other shallow water or underground fruits to brew the ethanol.

How much water would that take?

if the current situation continues the planet will soon be the largest mass grave known to man.

Doubtful.

if the can geneticaly engineer popcorn they can make alternative fuels viable.

?
What does making the techonology exist have to do with making it economically viable?
We can have cars that run on nuclear batteries if we want, its just not cost effective.

nogirt
Why is it obvious that global warming is here?

Because all scientific evidence shows that it clearly and definitively exists. No one but the horribly uninformed dispute that the earth is warming.

Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by jprophet420
It is obvious that global warming is here and we need to get off the fossil fuels now.

Why is if obvious that if global warming exists we must stop using fossil fuels? THe one does not necessarily follow the other, only if the warming is caused by the use of fossil fuels does that make sense (I'll agree that it looks like it does, but its not 'obvious').

anyway, assuming this is not just a rumor, the whole operation could be run in the desert. the sand to make the solar panels is there. the solar power is there. you can grow dates and cranberries and other shallow water or underground fruits to brew the ethanol.

How much water would that take?

if the current situation continues the planet will soon be the largest mass grave known to man.

Doubtful.

if the can geneticaly engineer popcorn they can make alternative fuels viable.

?
What does making the techonology exist have to do with making it economically viable?
We can have cars that run on nuclear batteries if we want, its just not cost effective.

nogirt
Why is it obvious that global warming is here?

Because all scientific evidence shows that it clearly and definitively exists. No one but the horribly uninformed dispute that the earth is warming.

global climate changes obviously have existed before, as we have had ice ages and floods multiple times. global warming is caused by X amount of factors, burning fossil fuels is one of them.

it takes unrefined water that can come from sewage and seawater, so the amount isn't really a factor.

heh, most people said 'doubtful', including experts when the greenhouse effect became a common word. scientists predicted then the mean temp of the earth would increase and got the numbers for the new century pretty darn close (at least a dozen years prior). so say 'doubtful' all you want I'm on the side that was right last time. i'll be happy if im wrong but thats 'doubtful'

if you seriously don't understand the technology cycle, ask again and i will explain it in detail. i think you're just spittin flames disguised as rhetoric so i'm not eager to answer that atm.

Very good point Tom! I didn't even think of the carbon cycle... *slaps forehead*

Jon

Originally posted by nogirt
Blatantly obvious? I am looking at my car which has a bit of mist collected over the night. No sign of global warming. And who is 'they'? Geneticaly engineered popocorn=commercial fuels? Which engineering school did you flunk out of?

My god.
TURN OFF YOUR FRIGGIN AIR CONDITIONER.
It is 50 bloody degrees celcius here with the humidex. IN CANADA.

The only people who are oblivious to this drastic increase in temperature within the last 2 years ALONE are the ones who are causing these widespread poweroutages, with the AC cranked down to ice cold.

At 7:30 this morning it was already 30'C.
I have never experienced this type of weather here in ottawa. Nor have I ever experienced the type of lightning storms we've been having the past few days
Definite "war of the worlds" lightning situation.

The threat of global warming is very serouis and as for ice ages in the past they were caused by natural effects, and the current rise in gases is off the scale in comparison then all of the past rises in CO2. Scientist have figured this out already by taking ice core samples in antartica & the north pole.
But the fact is we can take simple steps in order to reduce CO2 and you can figure it out how much CO2 you produce here www.climatecrisis.net... but we must start now because if we continue this trend it will be to late.

if you seriously don't understand the technology cycle, ask again and i will explain it in detail.

The only way that there'd be massive amounts of human deaths would be if there was instantaneous rises of sea level, such that the cities on the coasts all around the planet were flooded and killed everyone. No one is predicting that, its pretty doubful that it will happen. If you know otherwise, then feel free to explain.

As far as 'being right in the past', some climatologists were predicting increases in temperature, others decreases. What specific estimates are you talking about?

ju stab urden
At 7:30 this morning it was already 30'C. I have never experienced this type of weather here in ottawa

www.canada.com...
This weekend's heat wave didn't smash the all-time high temperature records it was expected to, but it did a good job of breaking daily temperature records for July 21 and 22.[...]The hottest spot in B.C. was Lillooet, where thermometers rose to 41 C on Saturday, breaking the previous record of 37.5 set for that day in 1998.

I am not trying to say anything other than that you can't correlate a single event like a heatwave within a single summer to something like Global Warming. I am not saying Global Warming doesn't exist, I am not saying its not man-made, I simply want to point out that individual abberations aren't meaningful for global climate.

mhuss
and the current rise in gases is off the scale in comparison then all of the past rises in CO2

cdiac.ornl.gov...
extension of the Vostok CO2 record shows the present-day levels of CO2 are unprecedented during the past 420 kyr. [...] Pre-industrial Holocene levels (~280 ppmv) are found during all interglacials, with the highest values (~300 ppmv) found approximately 323 kyr BP

Again, I am not saying that global warming doesn't exist, I am merely pointing out that its currently higher than at any past period.
For the record, the current co2 concentration is

www.thewe.cc...
BBC News has learned the latest data shows CO2 levels now stand at 381 parts per million (ppm)

Originally posted by ju stab urden



My god.
TURN OFF YOUR FRIGGIN AIR CONDITIONER.
It is 50 bloody degrees celcius here with the humidex. IN CANADA.

Deal with it. Life is tough.

Originally posted by mhuss

But the fact is we can take simple steps in order to reduce CO2 and you can figure it out how much CO2 you produce here www.climatecrisis.net... but we must start now because if we continue this trend it will be to late.

Yeah, I am starting to believe in Global Warming, because I think it is going straight to some of your heads! You honestly think that by clicking a link you are making a difference? No!

Taking a simple step would be to earn a BE in Mechanical/Chemical Engineering.

And what is all this we talk about? Whoever said anything about we?

we've had bad heatwaves before, and will again. global warming has by no means been proven.

i am sure that we definately aren't helping anything though. besides everyone misses what could be the biggest issue of global warming, and that is heat. humans make more and more heat in just about everything we do. every automobile, factory, nuclear plant, hydro plant, home/business heating, airconditoning, ect. pumps out HEAT. it's not just about the "green house" effect but the fact that we are pumping more and more HEAT out. unfortunately i am at a loss on how to cut heat down.

one thing i am sure of is that all bio-disle, methinal ect. are just stop gap measures to streach out the "dwindleing" supply of oil. it won't help with the whole pollutant problem. even if every car ran on "bio-fuels"we are STILL pumping out pollutants that are "greenhouse gases". therefore it is a null on helping cut pollution. not to mention all that nasty chemicals in used lubricants. if you want to cut pollution then we need compleatly new technoligy. cut out internal (or external) cumbustion compleately. right now the best we have is nuclear electricity. build thousands of new nuclear plants and go to electric moters (though they still crate much heat).

Originally posted by nogirt
Taking a simple step would be to earn a BE in Mechanical/Chemical Engineering.

I think you might be advised to learn a little bit about the climate record and how the atmosphere works, if you actually beleive that there is no warming trend. What do you find unconvincing about the evidence normally presented?

drogo
we've had bad heatwaves before, and will again. global warming has by no means been proven.

Global Warming, in so far as the earth warming right now, is a fact. Is it caused by man-made emissions of CO2? There is still some debate on that, but, CO2 is a greenhouse gas, and its buildup correlates to the increases in temperature. What explains this warming if you think it can't be CO2? THere are no other known drivers of climate that are 'in effect' right now (like orbital influences, solar activity, etc).

technology cycle has to do with making things cast efficient, not ppl droping dead. people are doing that from the heat now, just not enough to make any of the people who dont care start.

I am not trying to say anything other than that you can't correlate a single event like a heatwave within a single summer to something like Global Warming.

right on that. im basing it on a lot more than that.

but im not going to sit here and argue every counter point and im especially not into debating global warming.

so, ill just quote one more thing:

Why do we need to get off fosil fuels so soon at such economic cost?

thats one of the mentalities that prohibitss humans from exceling. the only reason NOT to do it is because it would cost billions up front before anyone saw a penny from it. thats pretty much the ONLY reason it isnt being done. forget that its clean for a minute. it would give us a resource that is equal to the current world currency in abundance that is renewable.

Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by nogirt
Taking a simple step would be to earn a BE in Mechanical/Chemical Engineering.

I think you might be advised to learn a little bit about the climate record and how the atmosphere works, if you actually beleive that there is no warming trend. What do you find unconvincing about the evidence normally presented?

Even if it were getting hotter because I drive a car and have a/c, I could still careless; so what in the hell does learning about climate records have to do with any of this? If the planet turns into a desert, tough. That is life and I will have to deal with it. I will not just stick my finger in my butt and suck on my mommie's teet like it would seem other people would do if it got a little hotter.