Wrong dude, they CAN beat Hezbo and EASILY if they really wanted to. They are hamstringing themselves by not going an all out invasion and air campaign. They are trying to fight a PR war by not killing too many civilians (yes i saw todays news). If they really wanted to it would have been over by now. Israel is using a FRACTION of their war-making capability and until they decide to get serious its going to be back and forht like this.

Originally posted by snafu7700
so just to clarify, it seems that several of you have decided that israel is in the wrong because they accidentally hit a civilian complex killing a bunch of kids.

here's my question folks:

all this condemnation of israel and yet not a single one of you has said a WORD about the INTENTIONAL targetting of civilians by hizbollah.....and not just once, but a continued policy of intentionally targetting israeli civilians and using lebanese civilians as human shields.

why is that i wonder?

It wasnt accidentlal. They have stated it is there fault, they allowed hezbollah to use the town as a launch site for rockets, they were warned to leave.. they chose to stay.

When you think about it, yeah you prolly did make a major mistake by staying in the town after being warned..
you sent in the missles honestly trying to remove the rocket threat.
But What I dont understand now,
is with all this air superiority, all the helicopters, jets, UAVs and troops on the ground.. why is it you still need to resort to flattening towns to remove a rocket site?

LEts be honest, southern lebanon isnt a major piece of landscape.. there's only so many places rocket launching pads can be setup, or fired from.
So after over 2 weeks of bombing, survelience, troops incursions, over flights, and recon missions, how is it that hezbollah still have the ability to fire over 100 rockets in one single day ?

It just doesnt make sense.

Its as if your ' allowing ' these rockets to rain down, to justify the continuation of this war. If hezbollah are a terrorist group, how is it they have enough troops to battle IDF soilders, ( and send them back ) at the same time firering volleys of rockets an also while being in buildings that are being destroyed....

What are they going to do? hit the same pile of rubble twice?
They've been launching volleys of missles for over 2 weeks? if they havent hit the hezbollah targets yet.. whats 2 more weeks going to accomplish?

Are thye planning on killing every civilian in southern lebanon?
If Iran and Syria join in on this, Israel will not, I repeat WILL NOT win a conventinial war.
2 large land masses of civilians will conquer that small realestate called israel.
Now if America intervenes, its then rises into a full blown world war.

Israel will still be reduced to a burning heap, the allies might win ( after serious bombing ) but ultimately israel will no longer exist.

They dont have the population and they dont have the land.
look at the destruction of lebanon, that was done by ISRAEL
imagine what Syria and Iran could do with all there missles,all there jets, all there troops nad tanks? you think there will be one building left?

Israel dont have an ENDLESS supply of missles. Sure the US does supply them, but the US doesnt have an endless supply on tap either. they take time to build, money to build and money to buy.

If this war goes UNVCONVENTIONAL, then israel have a chance.
But then again, this will mean ww3, and isreal will be the priority target.

So, in my opinion you are misguided.

Brains over braun my friend.

Brains over braun but too bad the enemy Israel is fighting has neither. Arabs are some of the worst fighters in the world strategically. They always lose their battles..this will be no different. It took 8 years for Iran and Iraq to be done fighting each other and neither won.

Originally posted by princeofpeace
Brains over braun but too bad the enemy Israel is fighting has neither. Arabs are some of the worst fighters in the world strategically. They always lose their battles..this will be no different. It took 8 years for Iran and Iraq to be done fighting each other and neither won.

Do you know any of the reason for that, or are you just spouting off. Because if you DID know the reasons for Iraq and Iran's stalemate it wouldn't fit in your point. Nice try.

I dunno about that.
The enemy that isnt afraid to die, is the fiercest enemy of all.
You think hezbollah plucked those israeli soilders of the streets on there own free will? that someone higher up told them to provoke israel?

I get the opinion the arab states are actually pretty damn smart.
Smart enough to use WESTERN Democracy against us, and give them the ability to strike at israel, and avoid responsibility.

Iran is a perfect example.

We give hezbollah AID and MORAL Support.
Moral support, thats what there calling it these days hey?

Iran has VOLUNTEERS going into Israel to fight israeli's
IF they wanted the blood shed to end, and peace to prevail.. wouldnt they just RESTRICT these men leaving Iran and heading to Israel?

Its frightening obvious Iran are pulling a lot of strings, yet they have used our media to PROTECT themselves.

This isnt a battle to be won either. AS said hezbollah need just to SURVIVE to win.
Seems they are doing a pretty good job.
Iran Iraq, good example, this is where the USA assisted isnt it ?
and again the USA are asssiting here.

the USA are assisting in Afghan and again in Iraq now too.. fundly enough.. this is where these wars are taking place all in the name of terror.

If you believe these arab states to be brainless weaklings, youve been sucked in im afraid.

I genuinely believe that some of you went to public schools and neve got over it. You ate up a big dose and cant shake it .

Who is the naive person who wants a level playing field. What on earth public brainwashing school did you go to and never got over it. The Pie Man ..what possesses you to make such a statement. Level playing field.

I dont like any of this buisness. I think it is horrible and will expand and escallate.

THis buisness is called war...fighting/killing. You dont put boxing gloves on one side and then make the other go bare knuckled. You finish it or dont start it.

It is obvious that someone here made a very bad mistake in their calculation and cannot back up. Loss of face and all that. Meanwhile both sides are losing civilian casualtys.

The astonishing thing to me is that some of you are rooting for one side and not looking at the civilian casualitys on the other side. ..it is as if one sides civilian casualtys are more expendable than the other side.
Others want to whine and moan ..."Unfair labor practice " because one side has more technology than the other side. Astonishing!!

This is a war which has never ended..in almost 60 years. Since 1948. This is not a sound bite between commercials and back to buisness as usual. Hey ...how about those Redskins??? What on earth can some of you be thinking??

I will remind you people that the nation of Israel has been suffering civilian casualtys for the whole of this almost 60 plus years and has for the most part shown great restraint. They have operated many times with the gloves on. Can any of you imagine what would happen if Israel ever took the gloves off??
I do not hear any of you making that claim or concerning the muslim nations or groups involved here. They do not for the most part put on gloves. They are bare knuckled. They go after unarmed civilians far more than does the nation of Israel. I do not condone what has happened on either side..I just know this facet of which none of you seem wont to make clear.

Do any of you remember the public bus bombings which took place for years in Israel and killed hundreds and hundreds?? I still remember this. It took place several times a week. Departnent stores...eaterys..pizza parlors. None of you seem wont to speak of this but consider this a expendable commodity while waiting for the next commercial.

REmember what happened this week in Seattle, Washington. It will happen again ..soon. Most of you are asleep at the wheel...you will do well untill it is time to wake up.

I am not pro Israel..nor Zionist. I do however read history. What I am saying is plain and clear. Some of you need to think further than the next commercial...or sound bite. There are no makeovers here for second place...what on earth can some of you possibly be thinking. A level playing field...this is the kind of stupidity and drivel that the news media spout...as if they are running and coreographing this war for thier sound bites...really stupid...they are opinion making...not reporting the news. These media mouthpieces are shilling for thier respective political partys ..all of them. Some of you need to think this through before you repeat what these shills spout off to get you on the emotional treadmill.

For those of you not on the time line and who have been sleeping for most of your lives..this is a war which has been going on for almost 60 years now...since 1948. It has never ended. What on earth have you possibly been thinking between sound bites. They have been trying diplomacy for every time these fights break out again. It just gives both sides time to rearm for the next bout. Who does the most attacking and killing unarmed civilians in these 60 years ..not just a air attack. What are some of you possibly thinking??

Diplomacy has shown iteself to be a horrible failure here.

Something else even more important for you folks to think about between commercials and sound bites.

I recommend very strongly that some of you look up the "Sampson Complex" and find out what it is and what it means. THen think about why we arm Israel...with conventional arms rather than encourage the implimentation of the "Sampson Complex."

If you understand this ..than think about why the news media ..all of them who are looking out for you ..never mention this to the American public. Then perhapsed some of you will realize how uninformed and over emotional you are about everything. Did they teach you people about the "Sampson Complex" in pubic schools?? Most of you are looking the wrong way.

Then I suggest if you can ..you wake up behind your steering wheels on the way to the movies or shopping centers/football games.

Thanks,
Orangetom

I am not sure the US will intervene unless Iran goes through Iraq. Then it will be like, "they are invading a country" or something like that. Let's just hope nothing happens...

And Agit8ed, you saying since Israel cannot defeat Hezbollah they would not be able to defeat Iran and Syria is complete bs. I don't know that much about military planning and technology as people on this site do, but I do know, that it is easier for militaries to destroy other militaries as they were designed to do. Not easier to destroy people who crawl out of holes and houses and shoot at their country and then run back inside with other innocent people.

Like I said I hope nothing comes out of this. I don't want the US involved, and most Americans don't. I am sure Israel can stand on its own.

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor
And Agit8ed, you saying since Israel cannot defeat Hezbollah they would not be able to defeat Iran and Syria is complete bs. I don't know that much about military planning and technology as people on this site do, but I do know, that it is easier for militaries to destroy other militaries as they were designed to do.

Granted, what about volunteer's? whom dont wear uniforms? whom can be classed as civilians when they are dead, but combatants when they are captured?

My point is, that israel isnt a large piece of land.
Compared to Iran and Syria.
Iran and Syria are are much more militarily advanced nation than they were back in the day.
They too have jets, surface to air missles, surface to surface missles and so forth.
They can use there VAST land space to great effect, where as israel dont have that many targets that are disposable.

If you lobbed thousands, upon thousnads of missles from iran and syria into israel, you'd make a major % damage to there ability.

compared to bombing Iran and Syria on the same extent, you do minimal damage % wise.
I believe Israel would not sustain an attack from syria and Iran somply due to the population, and the land mass.

Why do so many people believe that current day israel could walk over current day iran syria and lebanon.

"The Sampson Complex"

Originally posted by orangetom1999


"The Sampson Complex"

Urrm, no offence but huh?
If your going to refer to something least gimme something more than an order.
Sampson complex search sends me back here to ATS, so please enlighten us

Why do so many people believe that current day israel could walk over current day iran syria and lebanon.

They are supplied by the US that is why. I am not saying it would be a walk in the park for them, and they will get many casualties, but other countries will help them, and they are not pushovers. Like I said, I hope it does not happen. I just want PEACE. And most people in the world do as well! Governments manipulate us.

Theoreitcally, this will never be a war of Iran/syria V Israel.

Because like you said RR, American will fund and supply Israel to the TEETH.
How would that look on the News?

America sends in missles and moral as 20 israeli's die when battling Iranian forces on its outskirts.

I mean, we are effecitivley sending israelis to battle.

" we will supply you, give you everything you need ACCEPT men, you send in your men, with our equipment and beat Iran "

I for one believe it wont happen.
It will never get to that stage. Either American is IN, or OUT.
If Iran are game enough to activley enter battle, then its clear the US beleives they cannot defeat Iran.

But I still believe Israel do not have the ability to take on the middleast and win.

It is a mathematical certainty I believe.
The arab states wont just prod and poke, they will go for broke., because they know the retaliation from Israel will be extreme.

This fight has been going on now for over 2 weeks, Israel has flattened lebanon, murdered innocent women and childeren, yet have the balls to BLAME hezbollah.

They've managed to pi55 off a major faction of the arab states, and the UN.
There burning alot of there bridges I tell you, do they honestly think ending hostiliteis will be an END to the anger?
all they have done is create MORE anger against them, they havent WON anything accept MORE enemies.

The enemies now know but, that if you are going to strike israel, make no mistake of it, because you will be hit hard in return.

This makes for dangers few weeks ahead, and at least a few years.

Agit8ed, stop making it sound like it is ONLY Israel's fault. It is a lot of people's fault. The sooner people realize that, the better.

Hey hey hang up there little partner,

Im not blaming ANYONE to be honest, because effectivley we dont have all the pieces to make sound judgement on WHO is to blame.

All Im seeing are hordes of dead civilians, from israeli missles
damaged cities and dead civilians from Hezbollah rockets,
SUPPOSID iranian involvment on hezbollahs side
and DOCUMENTED american inolvement on Israelis side.

EVERYONES to blame.

But unfortunately, its israel choking the airwaves with accusations against Hezbollah.
Its ISRAEL claiming its the civilians error, when they didnt leave their cities as warned.
When its Hezbollah that kidnapped these soilders, and to this day refuse to release them.
And now its Iran allowing fellow citizens to join the fighting.

I was simply debating with u that Israel could not defeat the arab states.
Dont pin it on me that im blaming people,
im an armchair viewer just like you.

[edit on 30-7-2006 by Agit8dChop]

I ran across the "Sampson Complex" years ago when doing some historical reading. Until that time like many I was asleep at the wheel.

The biblical story of Sampson in the Book of Judges is all you really need though you can find it on Yahoo Search Engine.

The biblical story is of Sampson when he knew it was all over for him ...collapsed the building down on all his enemys and died with them.

This is the Nuclear policy of the Nation of Israel and also why we continue to arm them conventionally so that it does not reach this stage ..to where the Israelis begin this countdown.

For the information of those of you asleep at the wheel .this countown was implemented already..once... during the Yom Kippur war of 1973 when the nation of Israel was caught off guard during this holiday and attacked by several Muslim nations. The Israelis were removing thier nuclear arsenel from thier bunkers and preparing them for usage...ie..arming them in case they were overun by the Muslims. The Israelis were ready to take all the Muslim nations with them in like manner to Sampson in the Olde Testament.

Notice again that this is information that the Media ..looking out for you... do not bring to your attention...all of the news media..while they are shilling for their respective political partys ..they are keeping you ignorant of concepts and ideas of importance. Do not be deceived by the Media...any of them. They leave important informaton out of their reports. Americans especially are extremely ignorant about this information ..while being put on a string by the media/politicians.

THanks,
Orangetom

Originally posted by princeofpeace
Brains over braun but too bad the enemy Israel is fighting has neither. Arabs are some of the worst fighters in the world strategically. They always lose their battles..this will be no different. It took 8 years for Iran and Iraq to be done fighting each other and neither won.

Ok...

So, Jews are some of the best fighters in the world? Looking at WWII, I doubt that. I don't like posting stuff like that, but I'm tired of seeing people blast all Arabs on these boards.

Originally posted by helium3

Originally posted by Snazuolu
BRING EM ON i say!!! Israel, with the help of God will see to it the evil axis of powers are dealt with 1 by 1.

If the Jews are Gods choosen people, where was Gods help during the holocaust ?

BUDDY PULL YOUR HEAD OUT OF THE SAND !!!!!!

Or put your butt in the sand too

[edit on 30-7-2006 by Telos]

There was a book out some years ago entitled "The Sampson Option". Great read...tells all about how the French helped Israel go nuclear while the US (and others) looked the other way. Also says that a lot of their warheads have something written on them in Hebrew meaning "Never Again". If it comes down to it, Israel will burn all her enemies and herself if it has to and the Arab leaders as dumb and foolish as they are over there realize this and dont want to push Israel too far.