I never really felt deep compassion for the innocent Lebanese as much as I do now...Everything is just so stupid and primitive...isn't the 21st century supposed to be different? And I am not only speaking for Israel either...

That is the problem . . . I am very saddened that Lebanon was use perhaps to draw attention from other issues in the middle east . . .

I imagine that the results were not expected . . .

Originally posted by ThePieMaN
Dude I just had this Christian woman going on and on about how these are the chosen people and how god will bless them for helping them.

They are like brainwashed!! People say it would be so hard to perpetrate a large scale inside job the likes of a 9-11 type attack. Sheep to the slaughter.

The incredible Irony about that is that Lebanon is a country with 40% of its inhabitants being of the same religion as that brainwashed idiot that was talking to you dude.

40% of that country is christian and in the US, all these religious freaks are brainwashed and bombed with propaganda into thinking the Israeli are fighting against an evil Muslim country defending the holyland against the hethens.

[edit on 30/7/06 by thematrix]

Originally posted by UM_Gazz
I truly believe that Israeli military commanders, and advisers are calling for the annihilation of their enemies at any cost.

And isn't that exactly what Hezbollah is saying about Israel?

and in the US, all these religious freaks are brainwashed and bombed with propaganda into thinking the Israeli are fighting against an evil Muslim country defending the holyland against the hethens.

I assure you, most of the people in the US do not think that way. Most of the people want this to all go away and for the US to stay neutral. It may seem like we are all warmongers, but the majority are not.

Originally posted by thematrix

Originally posted by ThePieMaN
Dude I just had this Christian woman going on and on about how these are the chosen people and how god will bless them for helping them.

They are like brainwashed!! People say it would be so hard to perpetrate a large scale inside job the likes of a 9-11 type attack. Sheep to the slaughter.

The incredible Irony about that is that Lebanon is a country with 40% of its inhabitants being of the same religion as that brainwashed idiot that was talking to you dude.

40% of that country is christian and in the US, all these religious freaks are brainwashed and bombed with propaganda into thinking the Israeli are fighting against an evil Muslim country defending the holyland against the hethens.

[edit on 30/7/06 by thematrix]

uh, arent they telling us that they are fighting "Hezbollah".... a militant muslim faction/group??? not the entire country of Lebanon?


they are not telling us they are fighting the whole country. where are you getting this info from?

just curious.

peace.






[edit on 30-7-2006 by krossfyter]

thematrix

I agree . . . something backfire and now it has to stop. . .

People see Israel as the bible said the people of the God

But what people doesn't understand is that Israel God was the one that chose them . . .

The same way that the muslin feels that they are the chosen ones by their God also. . .

funny that at the end is not such thing as Chosen ones but wanna be . . .

We all have one creator and he has not chosen any nations to be the one

Humans has made the choosing. . .

[edit on 30-7-2006 by marg6043]

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe

Originally posted by UM_Gazz
I truly believe that Israeli military commanders, and advisers are calling for the annihilation of their enemies at any cost.

And isn't that exactly what Hezbollah is saying about Israel?

Of course, good point.

However, Hezbollah hardly has the weaponry to annihilate Israel. But there is "potential" that this tragic violence could win Hezbollah more "legitimate" support from Arab/Muslim nations in the region, Ironically making Hezbollah far more dangerous to Israel in the future.

I hope I am wrong.

Ret, marg and mat: Applause!

I (up till about an hour ago) used to support both Lebanon and Israel equally (or as best I could). I'm gonna cut a cheque for 10K to the Lebanese-Canadian Association tomorrow, and I ain't gonna claim it on my taxes, then I'm gonna go next door and visit my Member of Parliament and have a little chat about his future in the 'hood.

Victor K.

Qana v1.0, Qana v2.0... What's next?
Never forget.

so let me get this straight.. .most of you cats think that the isreal military is evil just like hezbollah?

Originally posted by UM_Gazz
But there is "potential" that this tragic violence could win Hezbollah more "legitimate" support from Arab/Muslim nations in the region,

You are right 100% percent in your point,

In the beginning Saudi Arabia and Egypt were against Hezbollah for starting the conflict . . .

But when the Arab media started to show pictures of a destroyed Lebanon and children death from Israel bombings . . . no Arab nations like to see that . . .

Now the support is changing and not because they agree with Hezbollah violence but because the Arab population will start marching and doing demonstrations bringing an instability in their own countries . . .

That is dangerous and like you said it will bring more support to Hezbollah even when they were in the wrong to Begin with . . .

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor
I assure you, most of the people in the US do not think that way. Most of the people want this to all go away and for the US to stay neutral. It may seem like we are all warmongers, but the majority are not.

Hence why I said "the religious freaks" which I'm glad to know aren't anywhere near a majority in either population or in the many christian factions yet.
Luckely most people are still on the moderate side of the fence and haven't crossed over to that level of blindness.

uh, arent they telling us that they are fighting "Hezbollah".... a militant muslim faction/group??? not the entire country of Lebanon?

they are not telling us they are fighting the whole country. where are you getting this info from?

just curious.

peace.

Sorry to say, but instead of listening to what they are telling you they are doing, look at what they are actualy doing.

They aren't sending in special ops teams to take out Hisbollah, they aren't only bombing Hisbollah strongholds and strategic positions, they are bombing pritty much whatever they feel like, UN positions, Red Cross ambulances (2 so far), Red Cross Convoys (1 comming from Saudi Arabia counting over 20 ambulances and trucks with aid suplies), Civilian buildings (resulting in 60 civilian deaths in 1 swoop) and so on.

600 Civilians have died alread in Lebanon. 612 if you count the 8 canadian and 4 UN workers that were killed by Israeli air strikes, 632 if you also count the Lebanees soldiers that were killed when their base was bombed by Israel, and you might not know, but the Lebanees army, goverment or people have nothing to do with this #, Israel is going after Hisbollah alone according to your own words.

You know how many Hisbollah soldiers were killed so far? 35!

If they only wanted Hisbollah gone, they should've sent in special ops teams and if needed the US should have helped them in this task, hunting down 2000 people covertly is alot easyer and cleaner then just bombing the crap out of an entire country hoping you might kill some of these guys, but hey, by the time they get those 2000 Hisbollah soldiers killed, they'll also be sorry to report they had to waste 35000 to 40000 civilians(yeah, thats what its starting to look like, 612 civilians already dead with only 35 Hisbollah soldiers KIA)


[edit on 30/7/06 by thematrix]

Originally posted by V Kaminski
Ret, marg and mat: Applause!

I (up till about an hour ago) used to support both Lebanon and Israel equally (or as best I could). I'm gonna cut a cheque for 10K to the Lebanese-Canadian Association tomorrow, and I ain't gonna claim it on my taxes, then I'm gonna go next door and visit my Member of Parliament and have a little chat about his future in the 'hood.

Victor K.

Qana v1.0, Qana v2.0... What's next?
Never forget.

You should claim the money anyhow and then donate the tax return. Kudo's anyhow humanitarian aid is always a good thing

War is hell, and these sort of things are tough to look at, but we can't expect Israel to keep the status quo of constant terror attacks either. I fear that these two sides will never get along.

the matrix...where are you getting your info from? please cite your sources.
thnx.

Originally posted by thematrix

Sorry to say, but instead of listening to what they are telling you they are doing, look at what they are actualy doing.

i cant really look at what they are doing... im not visiting the country frequently to study the situation. i only see whats being reported. do i believe it? nah... im not sure what the truth is.... im trying to open my mind to the situtaiton... trying not to be blinded by bias views.


okay... they are telling us... that they are targeting spots in which hezbollah is at... targeting where the rockets come from.... the soliders are at etc... and they are saying that the soldiers hide thier rockets and themselves around the civilians... which is why there are civilian deaths.
in a very layman way thats what they are saying they are doing.

[edit on 30-7-2006 by krossfyter]

Originally posted by krossfyter
so let me get this straight.. .most of you cats think that the isreal military is evil just like hezbollah?

Well, cuz,

What else do you call running over people and houses with tanks? Flying jets over neighborhoods to blast people with sonic booms? Destroying football field-sized areas in residential areas? Declaring all remaining people in southern Lebanon are terrorists?

Most of what I said has been reported on ATSNN with sources to plenty of newssites.

The numbers on current deathtolls come from ABC news and I also found articles on BBC and CNN with the same info.

They don't know if its exactly 600 yet because theres alot of people who's bodies are to mangled to make up an ID or a whole person, and alot of corpses still trapped under ruble. The registered deathtoll where they were able to identify the corpse and burry it is closing in on 400.

Then, what you say about what is being reported.

Whats the smart thing to do in your eyes when these guys are hidding among civilians?
Blow them all up including those civilians? Or go in and kill them and maybe have 1 or 2 civilians killed in crossfire?

The fact that they are choosing option 1 shows you that they value the lives of Lebanees civilians as less then 0.

They rather kill 1000's of civilians in locations that may or may not have Hisbollah soldiers, then putting highly trained IDF troops, who signed up to defend their country and if needed die for it on the job, to seek out and capture or kill the people they are after.

Its comparable with the US getting reports about Osama maybe hidding in Torronto or Montreal, eventhough they also have reports he has been sighted in London, Brussels, Paris, Amsterdam, Moskow, Tokyo and Caapstad, so instead of sending in CIA agents to verify and if posible capture Osama, they nuke the crap out of all these cities just to be sure.

And ps you don't have to visit Israel or Lebanon to see whats going on.

Just look at any and all reports you can get your hands on and take data from it. Don't listen to a word they say in it, just look at the images, data and video.

[edit on 30/7/06 by thematrix]

Originally posted by truthseeka

Originally posted by krossfyter
so let me get this straight.. .most of you cats think that the isreal military is evil just like hezbollah?

Well, cuz,

What else do you call running over people and houses with tanks? Flying jets over neighborhoods to blast people with sonic booms? Destroying football field-sized areas in residential areas? Declaring all remaining people in southern Lebanon are terrorists?

didnt the us military kill innocent germans trying to take out the nazis?

not equating isreal with american or hezbollah with the nazis... im just making a point.

i dont know the situation over there. im not there... im not studying it to find out who the real evil is... i only see and hear what is reported to me by the media.. which panders to certain views... no matter what news source it is.

how can we know who the real enemy is????

who has the ultimate source in this? speak out.

thematrix...
im not really inclined to talk about whats wrong with either side... or what the truth is... who is the real enemy... if both are or one is or whatever.... i honestly cant tell.

( i do know that killing innocent lives... is bad... but nothings ever this clear cut in a time of war)


im just letting you know that what they are telling us was different then what you were saying they are telling us... thats it. not trying to argue with you.

i believe your are sincere in what you belief. im just trying to find the truth in all this.

i want a clean source... that doesnt pander to one side. i want a source that tries to find the truth in the situation.

if anyone knows of anything... let me know... link it or something. thnx.



[edit on 31-7-2006 by krossfyter]

Wow how easily everyone has skipped right over 1983! You argue about the founding of Israel and Palestine, and everyone is up in arms about the 1996 bombing of Qana but something else happened between those two things. Remember the Marine barracks bombing by hezbollah? Not only did this terrorist group kill Americans but then our Lebanese friends elected some of them to office! Parents who vote terrorists into national office put their children at great risk. Israel may have dropped the bombs but the Lebanese civilians have to take some of the blame here, they allow hezbollah to operate within their neighborhoods and give them standing. The Leb. gov't has done nothing to weed out these terrorists, any gov't with half a brain would have done something after the events of 1996.

Futhermore using women and children as shields is right out of the "fanatic play book". They were used in Somalia during the "Blackhawk Down" incident, they were used by Iran recently to create a barrier around their nuclear plants and they were used in Iraq. So let's not kid ourselves that hezbollah hasn't used these citizens in the same way.

Do you want to stop this war? Tell the Lebanese primeminister to send his army into southern Lebanon to rout hezbollah. Arrest any civilian hiding a terrorist. Arrest every single Iranian republican guard in Lebanon, and then tell Iran and Syria to go blow. Force the UN to do something when they see missles lobbed from Lebanon into Israel. Give the UN "peacekeepers" permission to forcibly move terrorists who set up camp within their operating boundries. And for once make the people who are responsible pay instead of sniveling about dead babies. Lebanon has brought this on themselves. They killed their own children with inaction.

And thanks to the guy from Belgium who suggested that Americans help Israel in secret surgical attacks on hezbollah. Yeah we help out, keep civilians from being killed and then the rest of the world (and when I say that I mean Europe) and CNN can villanize us for doing it. No thanks! Why don't you hop in your car and pay a visit to NATO headquaters and see if they're interested? Oh wait NATO is made up of a bunch of nations who wouldn't use their soldiers to defend their own country!

And V. Kaminski? I'll be sending my own check to MCLEF in your honor!