I am an American Muslim and I am angry with Israel

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posted on Jul, 29 2006 @ 12:42 PM
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A Pakistani eh? Well atleast it wasnt an Iranian or there really would be hell to pay. If there is any silver lining to this tragedy it is that the Zionists and the neocons cannot use it to further misery and death onto another muslim nation for the actions of some loon.

I can just imagine the reaction if he was Iranian. Israel/Zionists would be holding Ahmadinejad personally responsible for this shooting.

I bet the American supported dictator of Pakistan wont lose any sleep about regime change over this incident.

[edit on 29/7/06 by subz]




posted on Jul, 29 2006 @ 12:55 PM
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It seems that this individual was certainly a certifiable whacko. Little doubt of that. This event, whilst carried out by a Muslim, no more exemplifies the majority of muslims than a rabid dog's exemplifies the majority of dogs.

I am fairly right leaning in my views on most matters involving the WOT. I am no fan of militant islam, or its adherents. The sooner they're gone from the Earth, the better. Those are my views...but I also realize that the vast majority of Muslims do not agree with the methods used by the terrorists. This guy was in the minority. He's a product of the minority, not the majority.



posted on Jul, 29 2006 @ 01:23 PM
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Hey NJE777,

Thanks for voicing your opinion. I have a hypothetical situation here, that I would like your thoughts on:

There is a group of Canadians living near the border of the US. Over the last several years, they have been lobbing rockets over the border into the US on civilian towns killing and maiming the civilian populace that lives there. The UN had done and said nothing since there is an anti-US bias due to the war that has persisted in Iraq. These militant Canadians are on record that their goal is the destruction of the United States and also the death of every citizen of the United States, including you, as a supporter of the US through your taxes. The Canadian government has done nothing to bring these murderers to face justice. In fact, the Canadian government approves these actions through their silent assent. Canadian citizens hide these militants either because they approve of what they are doing or they are intimidated by the weaponry this militia controls.

You are the president of the United States, charged with protecting our people. What would you do?
a. Complain through the UN (do nothing and allow the murders to continue)
b. Enough is enough- go across the border and take out the militia to protect our civilians.
c. Ask the Canadian goverment (which has done nothing to address this militia) to please arrest those responsible.
d. Nuke Canada.

Perhaps you see my comparison. Have you ever asked yourself "Why is Israel the way it is today?" The answer is a spiritual one- it can only be understood spiritually ( watch the scoffers appear to decry this answer) When you *hate* someone, when you clutch hatred to your heart, you become like the person you hate. This concept is seen when people who are abused in one way or another as children and young adults grow up to become abusive adults. Ask any therapist and they will affirm this. It's an invisible spiritual chain.

The same concept can be applied to a generation of people. The older generation of Israelis hated Germany for what happened in WWII. Look at what they have now become.

There are other, deeper, spiritual and generational issues such as Jacob and Esau, but I leave that debate to those more versed than I in scripture.

Personally, I would not want ever to hurt anyone. To have someones blood crying from the ground, accusing, as what happened with Cain and Abel is a horrible, horrible thing. Its horrific. Yet we clutch hatred to our hearts like a venomous snake that we refuse to let go. Our leaders seem to be in a catch 22 as seen from my illustrative story above.

Perhaps instead of justifying ourselves (myself) and our (my) hatred, we should pray- that God would intervene and help us all to understand that we are brothers. Hearts can be changed through the Spirit of God. Lives that are erased can never be brought back.

G.Houtchens
armchair coach
amateur historian



posted on Jul, 29 2006 @ 01:23 PM
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Sigh... Sure way to get attention. Definitely a sure way NOT to be listened to. Problems... problems...

To the poster who asked where are all the muslim leaders condemning terrorism, they're out there, and they have spoken out against it. It's just being drowned out by all the news about incidents like this.

Doesn't help that there are muslims out there who behave this way. :shk:

[edit - typo]

[edit on 29-7-2006 by Beachcoma]



posted on Jul, 29 2006 @ 01:39 PM
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Beachcoma. You probably already know this...the moderates out there will never get the same exposure as the militant minority do, because it won't sell newspapers or airtime. Ratings...ratings...ratings...

All the moderates can do is continue to work at moderating the views held by alot of people; all Muslims are bomb wearing fanatics.



posted on Jul, 29 2006 @ 02:01 PM
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Originally posted by Houtchens
When you *hate* someone, when you clutch hatred to your heart, you become like the person you hate. This concept is seen when people who are abused in one way or another as children and young adults grow up to become abusive adults. Ask any therapist and they will affirm this. It's an invisible spiritual chain.


NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!!
I am a Survivor and very proud to stand up and say so! I do NOT abuse my children. Its called breaking the cycle!

Refusing to perpetuate a cycle....knowing what is right and wrong and making a CHOICE for yourself and others.



posted on Jul, 29 2006 @ 02:07 PM
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NJE777. It's wonderful that you do. But, and it may sound oximoronic to say it...but sometimes you must fight if you are to have peace. Or at least be ready to fight for it.

If we all felt like you do, this would be a lovely world to live in. But unfortunately, until all of us reach that enviable state of being, we must be willing to fight for our peace, violently if, and as, neccesary. I'm not being faciteous, I truely do wish we were all peaceful sorts, but we're not, nor are the ones who wish us harm. Whoever they may be.

[edit on 29-7-2006 by seagull]



posted on Jul, 29 2006 @ 02:29 PM
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Originally posted by NJE777
Its called breaking the cycle!

Refusing to perpetuate a cycle....knowing what is right and wrong and making a CHOICE for yourself and others.


Very true. Unfortunately most don't realize they have that choice.

Education is key.



posted on Jul, 29 2006 @ 02:36 PM
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:bnghd:

thats exactly what I am talking about!

The only thing it proves is that there exist individuals who are mentally unstable who kill people in the name of something!

It doesnt mean that all Muslim people are violent.

stop the generalisations please



No, it doesn't. That is a given and generalisations are nothing out of the ordinary. They are acceptable in every day life. So I can certainly make a generalisation about Islamic culture based on what evidence is provided. That goes with the fact that in the past few decades, Islamic terrorism has occured the most through-out the world as oppose to any other religious based terrorism. I also take the treatment of women and animals in their islamic nations into account, which I'm sure many can agree, is very poor.
So therefore, I conclude that Islam prefers violence and war over diplomacy and compromise. So I will support all efforts against this barbaric culture.



posted on Jul, 29 2006 @ 03:13 PM
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The article I saw stated that he was an Egyptian, but it didn't state Egpytian National, it seemed to be stating he was an american who is egyptian.

Clearly, this is a disgusting crime. The man should be prosecuted on hate crime laws and as a terrorist. The US has to come down as hard as possible on this and execute this dangerous fool to nip this problem in the bud.



So therefore, I conclude that Islam prefers violence and war over diplomacy and compromise

This, and not to single you out laiguana, is just absurd.

One muslim in america attacks some jews, and that means anything about Islam!?? Thats crazy! What about all the muslims in america that haven't attacked jews or anyone else, you know, the vast majority of american muslims????

[edit on 29-7-2006 by Nygdan]



posted on Jul, 29 2006 @ 03:23 PM
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Well I am a Canadian WASP and I'm anrgy with Cowardly Terrorists.

I hope this doesn't mean Im next


But I guess you never know. According to Our own Terror Cell (Toronto 17) taken down weeks ago, there is training camp that needs some attention just around the corner from me. Hmmmm


And listening about this Crazed attacked in Seattle, is, as others have noted, SAD.

This guy, who legally owned Firearms, and had Conceal and Carry Permits, must have been fooling a lot of people.

He could not have been "Crazy" to obtain this.

I wonder if the sanity aspect is ruse to maintain his own ability to have the legal process dragged thru the Courts.

And it seems a word not noted HERE, is being presented in News Reports.


Terrorist, victims identified
soundpolitics.com...
The KING-5 11pm news broadcast identified the terrorist who shot six women today at the Seattle Jewish Federation as 31-year-old Naveed Haq of Pasco, an American citizen of Pakistani origin. He has a criminal record and was awaiting trial on charges of lewd conduct.



Yes, It Was Terrorism
soundpolitics.com...
It's insufficient to simply condemn the murder of one and the wounding of five at the Jewish Federation of Greater Seattle by Pakistani gunman Naveed Afzal Haq, who said he was a Muslim-American angry at Israel. Robert Jamieson is reminded of Tel Aviv detonations, but can't broach the "T" word regarding this specific incident. It was terrorism - let's get our heads around that. Today's Seattle Times update leads with a possible "mental illness" explanation for the suspect's alleged actions, but then notes the shooting came a day after "Hezbollah leaders in Lebanon and al-Qaida's second in command urged that the war raging in the Middle East be carried to the U.S." An FBI disclaimer of any links between Haq and any terrorist organization follows. Yet, as Andrew McCarthy of the National Review Online writes today:

...it could not conceivably be more clear that it is terrorism. If the FBI is saying they can't link him to any known terrorist group, that doesn't mean it's not terrorism....not all terrorism is committed by known groups...federal law recognizes the concept of lone-wolf terrorism. It is terrorism because it is a sneak attack -- in this case against civilians -- which is motivated by a purpose to affect government policy and/or further a political/social/religious cause.


And then there is also, this guy's background.


Saturday 29 July 2006
Northeast Intelligence Network report on Seattle killer Naveed Afzal Haq
www.judeoscope.ca...

One Killed, Several Wounded in Attack by "Muslim" Demanding the removal of U.S. Weapons from Israel

Haq’s father, Mian A. HAQ, is a founding member of the Islamic Center of Tri-Cities in Richland, Washington. His parents moved to Pasco in 2004 after living in Richland for well over ten years.

According to an investigation conducted by the Northeast Intelligence Network, HAQ might have connections to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania and might have attended college in Pennsylvania sometime between 1998 and 2003. Additionally, our law enforcement sources are maintaining that HAQ was reportedly in possession of a copy Qu’ran and possessed Arabic language terrorist documents.’ The shooting well planned, and HAQ might have conducted surveillance of this facility in the days before shooting.


When faced with the aspect of sending "Dead Time" in a place like Gitmo, for an indefinite period of time, without Council and such, it would be a priority to insure INSANITY takes precidence over Terrorist.


Nice to see your post's again Nat. Miss your reflections in other areas. As always, a good topic, and one that is certain to have comments.

Ciao

Shane



[edit on 29-7-2006 by Shane]

[edit on 29-7-2006 by Shane]



posted on Jul, 29 2006 @ 03:55 PM
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I can't believe that terrorist lived in my town for ten years! And this place is mostly rural! I'm certain that many mosques will preach that violence and war is the only solution against infidels. This does go along with the Quran after all.
And I don't see anything crazy about my beliefs regarding Islam promoting terrorism, it seems fairly accurate to me, whether it is politically incorrect or not. So this muslim with supposed mental illness is only contributing to the mounting evidence that supports my claim.



posted on Jul, 29 2006 @ 04:24 PM
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So out of somewhere between 2 million and 7 million Muslims in the US (nobody really knows for sure), one nutcase goes on a homicidal rampage, and from this you conclude that most American Muslims support terrorism.

This is a rather impressive feat of illogical thinking.



posted on Jul, 29 2006 @ 04:31 PM
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Originally posted by laiguana
I can't believe that terrorist lived in my town for ten years! And this place is mostly rural! I'm certain that many mosques will preach that violence and war is the only solution against infidels. This does go along with the Quran after all.
And I don't see anything crazy about my beliefs regarding Islam promoting terrorism, it seems fairly accurate to me, whether it is politically incorrect or not. So this muslim with supposed mental illness is only contributing to the mounting evidence that supports my claim.


Your ideas about other religions are what causes things like this to happen. Its a fallacy that Islam teaches this kind of thing. This guy was mentally unstable. You take a guy like that and he sees whats going on in the Middle east, maybe people on the internet calling for the death of all muslims,people calling for muslim countries to be nuked, anti-muslim attitudes, talking about Iran, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, killing muslims...a mentally unstable man is probably thinking they are out to get me.
It won't be long on this tract that we are taking and allowing to take place, that we will probably see more of this type of violence.



posted on Jul, 29 2006 @ 04:31 PM
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I don't believe I said that. I know I did make a generalisation of Islam, as a religion based on terrorism. And this case is NOT unique, how can we forget the 'nuts' of 9/11? Oh yeah...they were just some other nuts, but that doesn't mean anything is wrong with Islam. What a joke. It's happening everywhere in the world and yet I hear so many excuses. It's tiring, and I know it's not politically correct which is why it's confronted so enthusiastically. But the evidence is there, take it or leave it.



posted on Jul, 29 2006 @ 04:40 PM
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So similarly, from the Inquisition, the Salem Witch Trials, etc, I assume you conclude Christianity is a religion based on persecution and torture? Or from the example of Baruch Goldstien and Eric Robert Rudolph that both Judaism and Christianity are religions based on terrorism?



posted on Jul, 29 2006 @ 04:47 PM
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The past 5 years have all seemed like a huge witch burning. Mcarthyism with a twist. With Billions of people as followers i fear this will bring nothing but problems. They are speaking out but we have not listened. The attitude we have taken lately is like us firing one nuke into China just to see what would happen. Not the kind of tests we should be making.



posted on Jul, 29 2006 @ 04:47 PM
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Originally posted by laiguana
That SOB is from my area, which isn't Seattle, but maybe 4 hours eastward. I already don't agree with the muslim culture in many terms, and this incident just makes my dislike of Islam even more. It just proves to me again and again that Islam is a violent religion that revels in death. What a pity.


yes and the branch dividians were christian. I already don't agree with the christian culture in many terms, and this incident just makes my dislike of Christianity even more. It just proves to me again and again that CHristianity is a violent religion that revels in death. What a pity.


get the point?



posted on Jul, 29 2006 @ 04:57 PM
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Oh sure, lets bring Christianity into it. Sorry, that won't work because I do not see any christians here blowing themselves up or going on shooting sprees or crashing planes into buildings. The dark-ages of Christianity are long gone, because Christian themselves stood up against the theocracy that oppressed them, why has Islam not done this? Oh wait let me guess, Islam isn't what is oppressing them! It's the zionists! Or the American govt! Excuses. I presume that you thought I was Christian in order to give your argument some purpose? Well no, I'm not. And no, I'm not jewish either.



posted on Jul, 29 2006 @ 05:07 PM
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Originally posted by laiguana
That SOB is from my area, which isn't Seattle, but maybe 4 hours eastward. I already don't agree with the muslim culture in many terms, and this incident just makes my dislike of Islam even more. It just proves to me again and again that Islam is a violent religion that revels in death. What a pity.


While the shooting is indeed sad, and i do indeed support Israel I fear incidents like this are being used to actually inspire hate to the Muslim community. It is OK to be angry at Islam for 9/11 but never turn it into hate against the entire religion. This man acted alone, sad indeed but alone and does not represent the Muslim religion. The media can use these events to spread ignorance throughout our society, I can't think of anything more dangerous then blind hate, the wars and death that can be spread with the hate.
Just remember Laiguana you shouldn't hate an entire people for the actions of a few from that community.





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