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The absolute truth

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posted on Aug, 8 2006 @ 11:10 PM
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All sin is forgiven except blashpheming the spirit, which is denying the truth that sin is forgiven. Those who accept this are truly saved and one with God. Those who do not are saved and resurrected by the grace of God through those who do.

For if a man believes, his wife being a non-believer is sanctified through his belief.




posted on Aug, 9 2006 @ 12:16 AM
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Originally posted by UnrealZA
ben,

Sorry you do not wish to continue, but that's fine. Here though is what puzzles me.

You state that you will no longer debate this with me yet close your post by asking me another question, which is, are we forgiven or destroyed? Why do you ask me that if you will nolonger debate it with me?

Well anyway, here goes. Scripture states that all men are guilty of sin and their punish is death, eternal seperation from God. Yet by Gods grace He has saved some...not all people for not all Believe. So not ALL people (Universalism) are saved but only those whom God has called to be His.

Take care


That was rhetorical UnrealZA. It was for you to ponder, not for the debate to continue, and it isn't because I wouldn't discuss it, but you present a very deep subject that requires much definition to show what I am saying, which I do not have the time to give it justice. I didn't create this thread to wholly dissect the truth into every possible thought for me to debate. If others want to debate this, so be it. For me, I do not have the luxury of time to make an appropriate case for those who want to apply deep thought to the matter. I do have the time to offer those who are almost to their own understanding of the subject and require just a little nudging to get them to understand this. Call it a little extra encouragement for those who need reassurance that they are not alone in the like belief that the Gospel is true and without conditions.



posted on Aug, 9 2006 @ 12:49 AM
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Originally posted by ben91069
All sin is forgiven except blashpheming the spirit, which is denying the truth that sin is forgiven. Those who accept this are truly saved and one with God. Those who do not are saved and resurrected by the grace of God through those who do.

For if a man believes, his wife being a non-believer is sanctified through his belief.


ben, please post that passage and exegete it for me please. I would like to see how you get that the unpardonable sin is denying the truth that sin is forgiven.

Thanks



posted on Aug, 9 2006 @ 01:56 AM
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Originally posted by UnrealZA

Originally posted by ben91069
All sin is forgiven except blashpheming the spirit, which is denying the truth that sin is forgiven. Those who accept this are truly saved and one with God. Those who do not are saved and resurrected by the grace of God through those who do.

For if a man believes, his wife being a non-believer is sanctified through his belief.


ben, please post that passage and exegete it for me please. I would like to see how you get that the unpardonable sin is denying the truth that sin is forgiven.

Thanks


Mark 3:28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever, they shall blaspheme:
Mark 3:29 But he, that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

Blasphemy is defined through Strong's as vilification (defamation). Verse 29 shows that the unforgiveable sin is blaspheming the Holy Spirit, in otherwords the spirit of God or truth. Therefore, denying the spirit in belief is blaspheming in that one calls it a lie.

Verse 28 refers to physical sins and that they are all forgiven, because there is no basis for judgment of the flesh by any standard when all are incapable of attaining perfection in the flesh. Thus the whole purpose of this thread, to uphold the truth that all physical sins are forgiven.

These two verses go hand in hand, but have two seperate functions. Those who deny the spirit will not be forgiven of blaspheming the spirit, but will be forgiven of fleshly sins. They will be renewed just like all peoples but will be forever seperated from God by the intermediary of those who have not blasphemed the spirit. Those who have not blasphemed the spirit will be one with God and serve as laisons between the spiritual realm and the physcial realm. This is their function of those called the "elect", or the 144,000 mentioned in Revelation.

This is why I said, "For if a man believes, his wife being a non-believer is sanctified through his belief.", which is a reference to 1 Corinthians 7:14:

"For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else, were your children unclean; but now are they holy."

Marriage between man and woman is a precursor to the marriage between believers and non-believers being described as "man" and "woman". Man is the image of God and woman comes from man (allegorically described in Genesis). The believers who have not desecrated (blasphemed) the truth will sanctify those who do not, otherwise the non-believers will be stuck in the position of having to deal with their own disbelief and be judged. There is no other way to judge the physical world of division in the flesh other than destruction, because a house divided cannot stand.

I am fortunate to be able to have the time to tell you this for now.



posted on Aug, 9 2006 @ 06:54 PM
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Originally posted by ben91069

Originally posted by UnrealZA

Originally posted by ben91069
All sin is forgiven except blashpheming the spirit, which is denying the truth that sin is forgiven. Those who accept this are truly saved and one with God. Those who do not are saved and resurrected by the grace of God through those who do.

For if a man believes, his wife being a non-believer is sanctified through his belief.


ben, please post that passage and exegete it for me please. I would like to see how you get that the unpardonable sin is denying the truth that sin is forgiven.

Thanks


Mark 3:28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever, they shall blaspheme:
Mark 3:29 But he, that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

Blasphemy is defined through Strong's as vilification (defamation). Verse 29 shows that the unforgiveable sin is blaspheming the Holy Spirit, in otherwords the spirit of God or truth. Therefore, denying the spirit in belief is blaspheming in that one calls it a lie.

Verse 28 refers to physical sins and that they are all forgiven, because there is no basis for judgment of the flesh by any standard when all are incapable of attaining perfection in the flesh. Thus the whole purpose of this thread, to uphold the truth that all physical sins are forgiven.

These two verses go hand in hand, but have two seperate functions. Those who deny the spirit will not be forgiven of blaspheming the spirit, but will be forgiven of fleshly sins. They will be renewed just like all peoples but will be forever seperated from God by the intermediary of those who have not blasphemed the spirit. Those who have not blasphemed the spirit will be one with God and serve as laisons between the spiritual realm and the physcial realm. This is their function of those called the "elect", or the 144,000 mentioned in Revelation.

This is why I said, "For if a man believes, his wife being a non-believer is sanctified through his belief.", which is a reference to 1 Corinthians 7:14:

"For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else, were your children unclean; but now are they holy."

Marriage between man and woman is a precursor to the marriage between believers and non-believers being described as "man" and "woman". Man is the image of God and woman comes from man (allegorically described in Genesis). The believers who have not desecrated (blasphemed) the truth will sanctify those who do not, otherwise the non-believers will be stuck in the position of having to deal with their own disbelief and be judged. There is no other way to judge the physical world of division in the flesh other than destruction, because a house divided cannot stand.

I am fortunate to be able to have the time to tell you this for now.




Thank you very much for the reply. I'll post my reply soon, after reading your carefully. Thanks again



posted on Aug, 9 2006 @ 08:07 PM
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God holds us according to His Rules and Laws throughout history. We are never forgiven for our inaccuracies completely because we are subject to God and always subjugated to Him. God is merciful and grants blessings to those who renounce their sins, but we can never deem equality with God which the poster of this thread implied.



posted on Aug, 9 2006 @ 08:48 PM
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Originally posted by ben91069

Mark 3:28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever, they shall blaspheme:
Mark 3:29 But he, that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

Blasphemy is defined through Strong's as vilification (defamation). Verse 29 shows that the unforgiveable sin is blaspheming the Holy Spirit, in otherwords the spirit of God or truth. Therefore, denying the spirit in belief is blaspheming in that one calls it a lie.

Verse 28 refers to physical sins and that they are all forgiven, because there is no basis for judgment of the flesh by any standard when all are incapable of attaining perfection in the flesh. Thus the whole purpose of this thread, to uphold the truth that all physical sins are forgiven.

These two verses go hand in hand, but have two seperate functions. Those who deny the spirit will not be forgiven of blaspheming the spirit, but will be forgiven of fleshly sins. They will be renewed just like all peoples but will be forever seperated from God by the intermediary of those who have not blasphemed the spirit. Those who have not blasphemed the spirit will be one with God and serve as laisons between the spiritual realm and the physcial realm. This is their function of those called the "elect", or the 144,000 mentioned in Revelation.


I hate to say this, Ben, but your view of these scriptures and the sin against the Holy Spirit do not stand up to exegesis. According to the Matthew Henry Commentary on the Bible, MK 3:28-29 can be understood thusly:

It was plain that the doctrine of Christ had a direct tendency to break the devil's power; and it was as plain, that casting of him out of the bodies of people, confirmed that doctrine; therefore Satan could not support such a design. Christ gave an awful warning against speaking such dangerous words. It is true the gospel promises, because Christ has purchased, forgiveness for the greatest sins and sinners; but by this sin, they would oppose the gifts of the Holy Ghost after Christ's ascension. Such is the enmity of the heart, that unconverted men pretend believers are doing Satan's work, when sinners are brought to repentance and newness of life.

In other words, the sin against the Holy Spirit which can not be forgiven is the assignment of the works of the Spirit to Satan.

As for the quote from 1 Cor 7, Henry says this:

Man and wife must not separate for any other cause than what Christ allows. Divorce, at that time, was very common among both Jews and Gentiles, on very slight pretexts. Marriage is a Divine institution; and is an engagement for life, by God's appointment. We are bound, as much as in us lies, to live peaceably with all men, Ro 12:18, therefore to promote the peace and comfort of our nearest relatives, though unbelievers. It should be the labour and study of those who are married, to make each other as easy and happy as possible. Should a Christian desert a husband or wife, when there is opportunity to give the greatest proof of love? Stay, and labour heartily for the conversion of thy relative. In every state and relation the Lord has called us to peace; and every thing should be done to promote harmony, as far as truth and holiness will permit. (1

Meaning that the unbelieving spouse is lead to putting their trust in Christ through the example of their believing husband or wife. Otherwise the unbelieving person has not repented personally of their sin or expressed the need for a Savior. If your view were correct, then, killers & child molesters would be "sanctified" by believing spouses which is clearly not supported by scripture.


God bless,

LS



posted on Aug, 9 2006 @ 11:20 PM
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Originally posted by lightseeker
I hate to say this, Ben, but your view of these scriptures and the sin against the Holy Spirit do not stand up to exegesis. According to the Matthew Henry Commentary on the Bible, MK 3:28-29 can be understood thusly:


Do you normally follow the words of men or God? I take it you have probably made up your own mind on this already by listening to ideas from people with a worldy viewpoint. What I am really trying to say is, the gospel means exactly what it says it means with no exceptions. Even your own assessment agrees with this:



In other words, the sin against the Holy Spirit which can not be forgiven is the assignment of the works of the Spirit to Satan.


If all sin is forgiven, and you then believe that some things are right and some things are wrong, aren't you still denying the truth and applying the works of the spirit to Satan, the accuser? Indeed you are, because if a man says that God forgives, but his eye discerns that another man sins, then he is applying the truth only to hisself and conveniently stealing salvation from another man. This is hypocrisy and blaspheming the spirit. If you apply this rule to everything, you will see that the beauty of salvation only works if all are saved, not just whom YOU decide is good or bad.




As for the quote from 1 Cor 7, Henry says this:

Man and wife must not separate for any other cause than what Christ allows. Divorce, at that time, was very common among both Jews and Gentiles, on very slight pretexts. Marriage is a Divine institution; and is an engagement for life, by God's appointment. We are bound, as much as in us lies, to live peaceably with all men, Ro 12:18, therefore to promote the peace and comfort of our nearest relatives, though unbelievers. It should be the labour and study of those who are married, to make each other as easy and happy as possible. Should a Christian desert a husband or wife, when there is opportunity to give the greatest proof of love? Stay, and labour heartily for the conversion of thy relative. In every state and relation the Lord has called us to peace; and every thing should be done to promote harmony, as far as truth and holiness will permit. (1

Meaning that the unbelieving spouse is lead to putting their trust in Christ through the example of their believing husband or wife. Otherwise the unbelieving person has not repented personally of their sin or expressed the need for a Savior. If your view were correct, then, killers & child molesters would be "sanctified" by believing spouses which is clearly not supported by scripture.


This sounds very acceptable if I were listening to worldy ideas, but God is not of this world and Jesus' spoke in spirit. My information comes from spirit and I speak of things about the spirit which are the foundations for the Kingdom of Heaven.

John 6:633
It is the spirit that giveth life; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I have spoken unto you are spirit, are are life.

The Kingdom of Heaven is not a matter of eating and drinking and certainly not about who gets married to whom and if they divorce or have kids together or any of that, this is an interpretation of the outside of the message used by God for purposes of blinding the masses to the hidden message right beneath your nose. You have not yet rendered your mind to understand the meaning of man, woman, divorce, or marriage - for they are speaking only of the time of resurrection. They are using something you are obviously familiar with to get you to see the greater message, yet since you are not thinking spiritually you don't hear the truth.

Another point you make, which is false. No believer comes to God by the examples of other people. God calls us and it is presumptuous to think that if someone is a believer, then their spouse will be converted by example. Show me an example of any human deeds or works that is good and it being "an example". No one is good, not one, but only the Father.



posted on Aug, 10 2006 @ 08:59 PM
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Hello ben,

Thanks again for your reply. I wish to respond, and I will, BUT I sense, from reading your replies so far in this thread and others, that you hold to a more esoteric Biblical view. In other words, you believe you have been given special revelation, most likely through or via the Holy Spirit, as to what is true. Sure there may be alot of scholars out there but if they do not agree with your preconceived ideas of what Scripture "A" states then they must be in error.

That being so I find it very odd for you to start off your exegesis with a reference to "Strong's" YET when the poster, "lightseeker", gives a reference from the "Matthew-Henry Commentary" you have this to say in reagrds to that:



Do you normally follow the words of men or God?


How can you say that if you have also used a book with "words of men" to justify your stance? Is one better than the other?

Now in regards to Mark 3:28 and 29. One cannot, or should not, interpret two passages seperate from its surrounding context. This would then be "Eisogesis" which means to "read into" the text a preconceived notion or idea of what it OUGHT to say. What we want, especially when reading Scripture, is to perform a proper "Exegesis" which means we read FROM or OUT of the text. We allow whatever we are reading to speak to us. Also, a word is defined, given its meaning by its surrounding context. To isolate a word from its context ensures a bad interpretation.

So what is the context of Mark 3? Well staring at verse 13 Jesus calls His chosen 12 to send them out among the people. Then in verse 22 the Scribes come into the picture and declare the following:

Mark 3:22
The scribes who came down from Jerusalem were saying, "He is possessed by Beelzebul," and "He casts out the demons by the ruler of the demons."

The stated this because why would they wish to give credit to God? They wanted this Jesus dead and done with. If they gave credit to God this would only solidify Jesus even more in the eyes of the people. He was already to popular for their liking. So Jesus responds to their stupid illogical outburst with:

Mark 3:23-27
23 And He called them to Himself and began speaking to them in parables, "How can Satan cast out Satan?

24 "If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.

25 "If a house is divided against itself, that house will not be able to stand.

26 "If Satan has risen up against himself and is divided, he cannot stand, but he is finished!

27 "But no one can enter the strong man's house and plunder his property unless he first binds the strong man, and then he will plunder his house.

Jesus responds with a question and a parable. Now in verse 28 & 29 He hands out a warning and a death sentance.

Mark 3:28-29
28 "Truly I say to you, all sins shall be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter;

29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin" --

What is so different from "blasphemy" and "blasphemes against the Holy Spirit"?? One is forgiven, if repented of, and the other has no forgivness, why? How does one "blasphemy the Holy Spirit" in the first place?

It occurs when one attributes the work of the Holy Spirit to demonic activity, such as the Scribes did here. In fact Mark states this as the cause of Jesus strong words in the very next verse.

Mark 3:30
30 because they were saying, "He has an unclean spirit."
NASU

Key word here is "because". "Because" what? Jesus stated those things BECAUSE they said "He has an unclean spirit". In other words, ALL unbelievers reject Christ and if they die in that state of rejection then they have commited the unpardonable sin for their eyes are closed to the Light that Christ is. Even though they witness it they attribute it to someone or something else. I offer but a few (of the many) passages to back this up.

John 1:3-5; 10-11

Thank you



posted on Aug, 10 2006 @ 10:21 PM
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Originally posted by UnrealZA
In other words, you believe you have been given special revelation, most likely through or via the Holy Spirit, as to what is true. Sure there may be alot of scholars out there but if they do not agree with your preconceived ideas of what Scripture "A" states then they must be in error.


That goes without saying; for if Ben is truly giving us information of a divine revelatory nature, then all scholars are disqualified from the start. Unless, of course, they also have received divine revelation. In that case, there would be cohesiveness if not absolute similitude between what the scholar said and what Ben said, so that makes the whole thing a mute point.


That being so I find it very odd for you to start off your exegesis with a reference to "Strong's" YET when the poster, "lightseeker", gives a reference from the "Matthew-Henry Commentary" you have this to say in reagrds to that:

Do you normally follow the words of men or God?


Do you consider a Webster's Dictionary the same type of information source as a critique of a literary work or other performance?

IOW, is 'two thumbs up' declared by Siskel and Ebert on par with Webster saying food is defined as something one ingests for nourishment?


How can you say that if you have also used a book with "words of men" to justify your stance? Is one better than the other?


Not better; not even comparable. One is an 'objective' source of information (Strong's) and the other is a 'subjective' source of opinion (Matthew-Henry's Commentary).


Now in regards to Mark 3:28 and 29. One cannot, or should not, interpret two passages seperate from its surrounding context. This would then be "Eisogesis" which means to "read into" the text a preconceived notion or idea of what it OUGHT to say. What we want, especially when reading Scripture, is to perform a proper "Exegesis" which means we read FROM or OUT of the text. We allow whatever we are reading to speak to us. Also, a word is defined, given its meaning by its surrounding context. To isolate a word from its context ensures a bad interpretation.


If you are starting from an English translation, then a bad interpretation is guaranteed. It's a given in the hand, in that situation! It is already interpreted--why re-interpret in the same language? Especially when the Greek might present a totally different idea, altogether. The same goes for Hebrew. The bible wasn't written in English. English didn't even exist when it was written.

The Greek NT is totally misprepresented in English...in any translation.



posted on Aug, 10 2006 @ 11:01 PM
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That goes without saying; for if Ben is truly giving us information of a divine revelatory nature, then all scholars are disqualified from the start. Unless, of course, they also have received divine revelation. In that case, there would be cohesiveness if not absolute similitude between what the scholar said and what Ben said, so that makes the whole thing a mute point.


That is absurd reasoning. I have been given divine revelation which does not agree with ben, hence his information must be in error and false.

Why does there have to be "cohesivness" with Ben from all other scholars? I'm not ragging on Ben here, just using him, as you did, to show the fallacy of your arguement.

There MUST be a guideline from which we determine Truth. God is the Author of Truth and His Word is the final court of appeal.

If God wanted us to read His Word ONLY in the original language than we would all be out of luck as how many people know ancient Hebrew and Aramaic?

Thanks for your input anyway though



posted on Aug, 10 2006 @ 11:36 PM
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You see UnrealZA, this is the exact reason why I try to not quote references, including scripture, dictionaries, Strong's, what have you. I have seen this many times over on here and in many other forums and websites, that people expound there beliefs and use scriptures to back up what they are saying, and it never does any good because things can be interpreted in different ways, and especially scripture because the bible is full of contradiction when read at face value, but fully integrated in it's spiritual context.

People want proof but when you try to simplify it for them, they cannot see and require a debacle of information to validate what you say. I will only tell you this, what I know came not from reading the Bible, even though I have read most of it. It came not from hearing preachers, though I have heard many. None of this has led me to my beliefs, but by the spirit only. You cannot comprehend this because you are trying to prove the gospel as being incorrect, when it was quoted the very same way 2000 years ago.

All sins of the flesh are forgiven.

There is nothing more to add to this and nothing to prove about it. The only way to accept it is if God allows you to know it is true. Those who call it a lie are opposed to God and the Kingdom of Heaven, and have in mind the things of world.



posted on Aug, 11 2006 @ 12:14 AM
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Ben, I understand your frustration....BUT if what say is correct then how come all men do not know of this, that ALL sin is forgiven?

Follow me here please. You claim that this has been revealed to you and that God has forgiven ALL sin. Why then does not God reveal this to ALL men? What purpose does it serve if only you know of this?

Is there not some guide for Truth?

I have been able to decipher what you have written in your posts so how come I cannot use that same ability to read Scripture? Is it for only a few to be able to read and discern and then also know? That's contradictory to the Gospel message as a whole. Jesus wanted it to be shared, did He not?

Also, I am not "try(ing) to prove the gospel to be incorrect". Rather I fully believe that the gospel is that Jesus is God Incarnate, He was crucified and then died for my sin and resurrected the 3rd day and in Him we have salvation by Gods grace.

So again I pose the question, if God has revealed to me through special revelation that you are incorrect and I'm right, would you then change your way?

I doubt it, but why not? Afterall who are you to say that God did not reveal this to me? What shall you use as your guide, your honesty? I'm am also honest, I don't lie. So who are we to believe? You because you are more sincere?

Do you see the trouble we now have? How did the people of Israel tell the difference between the true and the false prophets? Is there not a warning to the Believers in the New Testament also about false teachers and prophets proclaiming to know of a new, different or better way?

Paul says that they are to be acurssed, Galations 1:8,9.

So there MUST be some guide for Truth or anyone can claim to be a true prophet of God and without that guide no one could know who is true or who is false, do you not agree?

Thanks again for your time



posted on Aug, 11 2006 @ 01:55 AM
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Originally posted by UnrealZA
Ben, I understand your frustration....BUT if what say is correct then how come all men do not know of this, that ALL sin is forgiven?


God calls everyone, first the Jew and then the Gentile. The reason everyone does not know the truth is that he reveals it to the Jew first, and I am not talking about the peoples who happen to live in Israel, but the ingrafted family. So suffice it to say that he reveals hisself to some first, then to the world. It is not a matter that people want to know the truth, but only God reveals it to whom he choses. My merits have not made me worthy to know any of it, but yet he has chosen to do so. This is for his benefit and not mine, because when all is revealed then no one can say that God preferred me over another, because I too was born without knowing the truth and thus a sinner, just like the world. It is also a part of the plan for the Kingdom of Heaven. No one is worthy of being a part of it, but it is God's grace to save all mankind to live in his eternal peace. Think of it as a surprise wedding party, for that is what it is like.



Follow me here please. You claim that this has been revealed to you and that God has forgiven ALL sin. Why then does not God reveal this to ALL men? What purpose does it serve if only you know of this?


I have asked the same question with only one answer; it serves God's purposes only. Those who are shown the truth before it is manifested to the world have been chosen to be spiritual beings able to manifest things into the physical world. No one who is able to see the truth deserves to know any of it, for they are created beings and it is only God's will that it is so. Believe me that knowing the truth isn't easy to live with and be in the world. They are contradictory and until the time of the end of the age, it seriously causes problems to live in the world knowing full well that the world is a lie. I sometimes feel like an alien in a foreign land. I don't mean that I despise the truth, but just that it is a constant reminder almost minute by minute of how bad the deception is in this world. Truly you would not believe it.



Is there not some guide for Truth?


Yes it is the Holy Spirit, or what Jesus called, the comforter, strengthener, or fortifier.
You can ask for the spirit, but you will not get it unless God chooses to give it to you.
It has never been about our desires to know God or the truth, even though he knows we want to know this, but that it is a gift and in no way earned, even by asking for it - so that no one can boast that they did something to recieve it.



I have been able to decipher what you have written in your posts so how come I cannot use that same ability to read Scripture? Is it for only a few to be able to read and discern and then also know? That's contradictory to the Gospel message as a whole. Jesus wanted it to be shared, did He not?


Truly, the gospel will be known by all, but not through the conveying of the written word. If the truth were a matter of reading it in the Bible, then the majority of the world would have believed in it by now, since it has been broadcast to virtually everyone. The "ability" you refer to is not some skill that I have or learned to do. It is called discernment, but I can not even claim this, for I did nothing to hone my skills or work in any way towards finding it. In fact, I don't get the information I want to know nor when I want to know it. I get revelation when God is good and ready to tell me and whatever it is that he wants to show me, but almost never what I am seeking to know. Therefore, it isn't any skill I have acquired, but all of it is of when and what God chooses to tell me. It isn't a voice in my head, but a knowing just like you comprehend something without a voice talking to you.



Also, I am not "try(ing) to prove the gospel to be incorrect". Rather I fully believe that the gospel is that Jesus is God Incarnate, He was crucified and then died for my sin and resurrected the 3rd day and in Him we have salvation by Gods grace.


And this is just the beginning of the truth. There are many paths to the truth and this is one of them, and when you recieve a heaping measure of revelation, you soon realize that Jesus' death was in and of itself not what saves us spiritually, but God alone. By a legal definition, Jesus' death is only an atonement for physical sins, not for blaspheming the spirit because the spirit cannot sacrifice itself.



So again I pose the question, if God has revealed to me through special revelation that you are incorrect and I'm right, would you then change your way?


All I can say is, everyone has conviction. I cannot say truthfully that what I know is truth for you or anyone else currently, but I do say that my truth includes that everyone will know of it, because the absolute truth I speak of includes a salvation for those who currently do not believe in it. Beliefs which say that sin is not forgiven, state clearly by definition biblically; that sinners must be destroyed, and thus sinners will never find the truth. Your beliefs will not make me change my ways, because my beliefs never originated in my own mind to begin with - they are contrary to what seems logical to the world and what I could think up. Without God, I would have never believed in any of this, so since it is by God, then I don't see how hearing your beliefs will change what God has told me. It was his will to tell me and I don't see that he has changed any of his agenda in my 36 years of telling me what he wants me to see, regardless of hearing just about every conventional idea presented by the world.



I doubt it, but why not? Afterall who are you to say that God did not reveal this to me? What shall you use as your guide, your honesty? I'm am also honest, I don't lie. So who are we to believe? You because you are more sincere?


The purpose of this thread is not to debate if what I have presented is correct, because there will be many who will say it is a lie. More correctly, I wanted to see the response and test the spirits of others within myself and perhaps some fellowship, but in no way was I ever trying to convince anyone what I am saying is the truth, for God has set aside a specific time for that, and the only positive thing about this thread is that it will serve as a small testimate of the truth existing before revelation, so that no one can say "we did not know". Additionally no one is completely honest, or without lie, or with sincerity. We are all tainted in some way from being good, for there is only one.



Do you see the trouble we now have? How did the people of Israel tell the difference between the true and the false prophets? Is there not a warning to the Believers in the New Testament also about false teachers and prophets proclaiming to know of a new, different or better way?


You are correct in the warnings. But remember that Jesus also stated there will be an apostacy or falling away from the truth during the time of the Gentiles so that when it returns, no one will believe in it. Jesus adds in another context quite rhetorically, "will I find faith?".



So there MUST be some guide for Truth or anyone can claim to be a true prophet of God and without that guide no one could know who is true or who is false, do you not agree?


Yes, I do agree. And for that, God is about to show the world his "proof". Jesus states that a wicked generation wants proof or a sign, and the only sign they will be given is the sign of Jonah. Notice that Jonah is hidden within the whale for 3 days for the world to not see, yet he was still alive and then was expelled and lived. This is similar to the proof of what God is going to provide so that the world will believe.



posted on Aug, 13 2006 @ 05:53 PM
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Originally posted by UnrealZA
What is so different from "blasphemy" and "blasphemes against the Holy Spirit"?? One is forgiven, if repented of, and the other has no forgivness, why? How does one "blasphemy the Holy Spirit" in the first place?

It occurs when one attributes the work of the Holy Spirit to demonic activity, such as the Scribes did here. In fact Mark states this as the cause of Jesus strong words in the very next verse.



Because blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is that which is related to fornication(orgasm).

Other types of karma can be payed with good deeds or can even be forgiven by Christ.

But the karma created by profaning the very energy of creation itself(The Holy Spirit) must be payed through suffering.

This type of act against the Holy Spirit is related to what is called Kamaduro and Karmasaya.


Many of the clergy are ignorant of the Alchemy/Tantra found within the Gospels and are therefore fornicators because they do not know the Holy Science.

The celibate priests fornicate because they can't contain the Sexual Energy by suppressing it.

Many of the married priests fornicate because they do not know to withdraw from the sexual act before reaching orgasm.

It is taught that when one withdraws from the sexual act before fornicating(before spilling the 'Mercury'), the refrained desire to fornicate is transmuted into the energy of the Holy Spirit(the 'Sulphur' of Alchemy).

The Mercury is transmuted into Sulphur through the proper utilization of Salt.


So we speak blasphemy, when we say that fornicators-who don't know the Science of Alchemy(the average clergyman)-have the gift of the Holy Spirit!


Yeshua said that we should marry if we can't transmute and contain the energy of the Holy Spirit through meditation and pranayama.

But esoterically we should marry regardless, as to receive the same Initiation that Yeshua received and that He wants us to receive.

But these things were only taught symbolically, or in parables, during the Piscean Age.

Yeshua was the Christ Avatar who taught publically(though allegorically) during the Age of Pisces.


Now we are in Aquarius.



Regards




[edit on 13-8-2006 by Tamahu]



posted on Aug, 13 2006 @ 07:30 PM
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Originally posted by Tamahu

Originally posted by UnrealZA
What is so different from "blasphemy" and "blasphemes against the Holy Spirit"?? One is forgiven, if repented of, and the other has no forgivness, why? How does one "blasphemy the Holy Spirit" in the first place?

It occurs when one attributes the work of the Holy Spirit to demonic activity, such as the Scribes did here. In fact Mark states this as the cause of Jesus strong words in the very next verse.



Because blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is that which is related to fornication(orgasm).

Other types of karma can be payed with good deeds or can even be forgiven by Christ.

But the karma created by profaning the very energy of creation itself(The Holy Spirit) must be payed through suffering.

This type of act against the Holy Spirit is related to what is called Kamaduro and Karmasaya.


Many of the clergy are ignorant of the Alchemy/Tantra found within the Gospels and are therefore fornicators because they do not know the science.

The celibate priests fornicate because they can't contain the sexual energy by suppressing it.

Many of the married priests fornicate because they do not know to withdraw from the sexual act before reaching orgasm.

It is taught that when one withdraws from the sexual act before fornicating(spilling the Mercury), the refrained desire is transmuted into the energy of the Holy Spirit(the 'Sulphur' of Alchemy).

The Mercury is transmuted into Sulphur through the proper utilization of Salt.


So we speak blasphemy when we say that fornicators who don't know the Science of Alchemy have the gift of the Holy Spirit!


Yeshua said that we should marry if we can't transmute and contain the energy of the Holy Spirit through meditation and pranayama.

But esoterically we should marry regardless, as to receive the same Initiation that Yeshua received and that He wants us to receive.

But these things were only taught symbolically, or in parables, during the Piscean Age.

Yeshua was the Christ Avatar of Pisces.

Now we are in Aquarius.



Regards





[edit on 13-8-2006 by Tamahu]


Sorry, but this has NOTHING at all to do with the context of Mark 3 and blasphemy. "Orgasm" and sexual frustration?? Now that's an interpretation I haven't heard yet!!

"Karma" is contradictory and therefore it cannot be a logical and reasonable belief to hold.



posted on Aug, 13 2006 @ 08:36 PM
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You're making this more complicated than it needs to be.

The Holy Spirit is the energy of Creation itself(the synthesis of the Positive, Negative and Neutral Conciliating Forces in all of Nature).

That energy is in our sexual glands as well.

And this is why the Man and Woman, Jachin and Boaz, have to work with these forces in the right way without fornicating.

They have to channel within themselves the Conciliating Force of the Holy Spirit in order to have the gift of the Holy Spirit

So to profane it through fornication is to blaspheme against the Holy Spirit.

Many people speak against Sex, saying that it is something gross, sinful, etc.; yet they have no problem with the disgusting vices of masturbation, wet dreams, and all other types of fornication.

These are the hypocritical Pharisees.



posted on Aug, 13 2006 @ 08:43 PM
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The Science of Alchemy as taught in parables by Master Yeshua, shows us how to attain the gift of the Holy Spirit:




...And Lilith are the forces of evil that work in the darkness - they have nothing to do with the light - they enjoy performing evil, the ego.

There is on the Left Hand the so-called Witches Sabbath - in which the witches, demons, sorcerers, etc, gather in order to celebrate the Sabbath, but in the evil way. This is why there was confusion in the Middle Ages, because of the Ignorance of the Catholic priests who didn't know about the secrets of Sabbath, and criticised even the great Initiates who were working with Jehovah Elohim, the Holy Spirit. Of course many initiates were burned, killed, by the "Holy Inquisition" that didn't know anything about the Holy Work with the Holy Spirit.

This Great Work is in relation to the sexual organs, that which we call the Holy Tabernacle, or the Ark of the Covenant, the Ark of Science, the Ark of Alliance etc. This is always referring to the sexual organs.

That is why there are a lot of commandments in the Bible relating to sex. There are many people that read the Bible but do not understand it, because they ignore the Mysteries of Binah, Saturday.

So the enemies of Saturday are those who violate the forces of the Holy Spirit.

When you polarize with the positive forces of Saturn, then you work in a good way with the occult forces of the Holy Spirit, because the whole work is always performed occultly, in the darkness.

When you pray, you close your eyes and are hidden in the dark. The whole work is guided by Saturn. And whoever is a conqueror is a Lord of Saturday.

That is why Jesus said the Son of Man is a Lord of Saturday. But you have to understand that the Son of Man is an Initiate in union with the forces of Christ working in the annihilation of the ego, and the creation of the Wedding Garment of the Soul, the Solar Bodies. This is necessary to become Lord of Saturday, and to perform all the miracles, because all the miracles or psychological works are performed on Saturday. This is how Jesus performed many miracles on Saturday. Jeshua, the Saviour, will perform many miracles in you if you keep the Sabbath, Saturday, holy - if you work with the Holy Spirit in the right way.

But the opposite are the enemies of the Holy Spirit - the fornicators.

In the Seventh Sphere of Hell, related with the negative aspect of Saturn, you find all the enemies of the Holy Spirit. They declare themselves enemies of the Holy Spirit. Sometimes they do it consciously, sometimes unconsciously.

Dante Alighieri found Priests there, in the Seventh Sphere, who were celibate. Of course, when someone doesn't conquer the dominion of the sexual force in their physical body, and rejects the sexual act, but ignores how to transmute, they are an enemy of the Holy Spirit.

These people think they can reach God by rejecting the sexual act - they ignore that in order to reach that level one needs first of all to teach the physical body how to transmute in the physical act and to create the Wedding Garment of the Soul, to reach the Second Birth.


They are enemies of the Holy Spirit - most of them have nocturnal pollutions, wet dreams, where all of the energy of the Holy Spirit spills out of their body. They fornicate when they have that type of dream, because Fornication is when the sexual matter leaves the sexual organs - that is fornication. Whether it is by masturbation, or wet dream, or whether in legitimate matrimony - it doesn't matter how the sexual matter leaves the body, if it is spilled, it is fornication, it is written.

And if any man's Semen go out from him during copulation, then he shall wash all his flesh in (the sexual) waters (of Yesod), and be unclean until the even (Klipoth).

The woman also with whom man shall lie with semen during copulation, they shall both bathe themselves in (the sexual) waters (of Yesod), and be unclean until the even (Klipoth). - Leviticus 15:16, 18


And the enemies of the Holy Spirit hate the cross - how are they called? There are many levels of this type of hatred, but the most well known person is Dracula.

Who is Dracula? A vampire - a type of psychological defect, a lustful defect, which is related with homosexuality. A male vampire is a homosexual, and a female vampire is a lesbian, in the physical world. They hate the cross, because the cross is the crossing of the masculine force with the feminine force in the sexual act. The phallus united with the uterus makes the cross. This is why male and female vampires hate the cross.

Those vampires are the egos of lust of homosexuals and lesbians. So there are as many male and female vampires as homosexuals and lesbians in the world - those egos that like to suck the energy of those that are "normal."

In a similar way as the ego of anger likes to fight and argue, the ego of homosexuality and lesbianism likes to suck the energy and hates the cross, and gives a lot of justifications in order to justify its hatred of the cross. That is why they are enemies of the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit works in the cross, makes life in the cross.

The Holy Spirit is that wisdom, that intelligence, that unites two atoms of Hydrogen with one atom of oxygen, crosses them, and in that cross the Holy Spirit makes water, and thanks to the water we are alive.

In every single union, or crossing of elements, is what is nature. The Holy Spirit is always creating different types of life with the crossing of elements. The sperm and the ovum, or the water etc, are always the result of the cross.

The cross is a holy symbol.

That is why Jesus was crucified on the cross - because he was sacrificing himself in order to give life, through the cross.

That's why it is stupid when you know the knowledge to say that Jesus also accepts homosexuals and gives them eternal life, to say that they will be saved. Homosexuals and lesbians are rotten seeds, spiritually speaking. Why? Because they do not germinate, not even physically.

Homosexual marriages adopt children because they cannot create life, they have given up creating life, because they hate the cross, physically speaking. So how are they going to create internal light, internal life, how are they going to make light in the darkness when they justify their homosexuality and lesbianism? They are lost cases. Not because we say so, but because they cannot even make life physically, let alone internally. They hate the cross. In order to make light in the darkness you need to worship the cross, but not just believing in it, but working in it, in the Holy Sabbath. But the homosexuals and lesbians are enemies of the Holy Spirit, they violate the Sabbath and follow Lilith, those who hate the Holy Spirit and love Laila, the Night.

In the Seventh Sphere of Hell, controlled by 672 laws, we find those souls who are violent against the Holy Spirit.

There are many ways to perform violence against the Holy Spirit, but the worst way is in the way of homosexuality. They violate their sexual organs, using the Tabernacle of the Holy Spirit in the wrong way and hating the cross.

But also there is violence against nature in those who masturbate, they commit violence against their own body, against life, against the Holy Spirit.

Castration is violence against the Holy Spirit. There are many kinds of castration in these times - we find, for instance, women that cut their fallopian tubes - the female organs are the Holy Tabernacle of Jehovah Elohim, where the Holy Spirit creates life in their body.

Other ways are putting anything inside the physical body to avoid the Holy Spirit making life. This is violence against the Holy Spirit - any contraception. The Holy Spirit is the one that works, is that intelligence in that marvellous communion between the sexual organs and the pineal gland in order to create the hormones that we call the sperm and ovum, for life to be created in this physical world. But when a woman puts into her body pills, any kind of contraceptive, in order to break that marvellous intelligence in the body, she is committing violence against the Holy Spirit, is violating the body, breaking the functioning, the metabolism of their body, with consequences.

Vasectomy is violence against nature, violence against the Holy Spirit.

Everything that goes against life is violence against the Holy Spirit.

There are many vets that think they are doing good by neutering cats and dogs, but they perform violence against the Holy Spirit. What the Holy Spirit created in the animals, they are cutting.

There are many enemies of the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit is the one that illuminates when you enter into chastity, in the path. And you acquire wisdom, intelligence, thanks to the Holy Spirit.

Jesus was illuminated thanks to the Holy Spirit. When he was in the Jordan, the Holy Spirit descended into him, as a white dove, and he became Jesus Christ, performing miracles. Because the Holy Spirit was in him, otherwise he couldn't perform any miracles. The Heavens opened and the Holy Spirit descended in the form of a white dove.

This happened to all the Masters - Krishna, Buddha, Mohammed, Osiris, Zoroaster - many masters were illuminated by the Holy Spirit, and were expressing, talking, because the Holy Spirit expresses itself through the throat giving the knowledge. So all the religions are holy, because all of them come from Jehovah, Iod-Heva, Siva, the Holy Spirit, Binah, the Intelligence.

So anybody that pronounces himself against a religion is violent against the Holy Spirit. They are an enemy of the Holy Spirit.






[edit on 13-8-2006 by Tamahu]



posted on Aug, 13 2006 @ 08:45 PM
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Originally posted by Tamahu
You're making this more complicated than it needs to be.

The Holy Spirit is the energy of Creation itself(the synthesis of the Positive, Negative and Neutral Conciliating Forces in all of Nature).

That energy is in our sexual glands as well.

And this is why the Man and Woman, Jachin and Boaz, have to work with these forces in the right way without fornicating.

They have to channel within themselves the Conciliating Force of the Holy Spirit in order to have the gift of the Holy Spirit





No where within Scripture is the Holy Spirit ever described as a "force" or "energy". Rather the Holy Spirit is God, God the Spirit. You have forced this interpretation INTO the Scripture and thus it is you who is making it so complicated as you are trying to explain to me what the Holy Spirit is.

So your interpretation is out of ignorance to Scripture.



posted on Aug, 13 2006 @ 09:05 PM
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I never said that the Holy Spirit is not God.

Please don't put words into my mouth.

When we fornicate, we profane that Creative Energy that is the manifestation of God.

Spirit is the most elevated form of Energy.

All energy is Spirit at a lower vibration.

All matter is energy at a lower vibration.

Everything comes from IOD-HEVE, who is the Consuming Fire of Christ in All of Nature, the All in All.

Please be a little more open minded and study the infomation I quoted in my last post, without any preconceptions, and pray for the Inner-Christ to Illuminate you regarding it.

Remember, Yeshua said that He taught in parables.

Don't take everything literally.


Also, karma is the Law of cause and effect.

And since everything is interdependent, when we violate others(and our own bodies which are not really ours, but belong to the Holy Spirit), we really violate ourselves.

Nothing contradictory about that.

But the reason that karma(The Law established by Christ) can be forgiven, is because of this:



When an inferior law is transcended by a superior law, the inferior law is washed away.



But karmic acts against the Holy Spirit(Kamaduro and Karmasaya) cannot be forgiven and must be payed through suffering.


Anyway...


This is why I mentioned earlier in this thread, the quote of Samael Aun Weor in regard to the absurdity of talking about Absolute Truth, when we have not even comprehended relative truth that is the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, or Daath, Sex, Alchemy.....

[edit on 13-8-2006 by Tamahu]



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