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The absolute truth

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posted on Aug, 3 2006 @ 01:47 AM
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Originally posted by Bripe Klmun
I do love satirical posts - nice job, ben91069!

:shk:

Seriously - how may of these exact same topics do we need here? Can we not encourage people to use the "search" function, even when they are bible-thumping?


Satire is in everything, especially on ATS. Haven't you noticed?

I suppose if you don't like what you are reading in this post that you would use that search function and find something you do like, otherwise why would you bother to post at all unless you haven't heard the truth?

I guess every non-believer wishes to know the truth but feels it necessary to mock it because it is alien to them, otherwise they would fully embrace that all will be saved.

Since you jumped in here with your thoughts, why don't you show the links to the posts on ATS from someone that believes the murderers, rapists, thieves, liars, adulterers, etc. claims that they will be saved. Do not show links to individual posts in a thread, but only show threads that say the same thing as this one. Can you show me of anyone here on ATS that claims a murderer is saved by God and created a post that says so and does not say it is conditional? This is what I am saying and this is why this thread is different than all the other threads that you claim are just a result of bible thumping.




posted on Aug, 5 2006 @ 08:06 AM
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Sorry ben,

I wasnt really having the best week.


You make some good points. And I apologize for jumping down your throat.



posted on Aug, 5 2006 @ 09:59 AM
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Originally posted by ben91069
Since you jumped in here with your thoughts, why don't you show the links to the posts on ATS from someone that believes the murderers, rapists, thieves, liars, adulterers, etc. claims that they will be saved.


That's a hard one to find, no matter where one looks!


Most that speak of such brilliant truth and glorious EQUALITY are promptly killed--or at the very least, ostracized and often pelted with vegetables...


This is what I am saying and this is why this thread is different than all the other threads that you claim are just a result of bible thumping.


Those that use their bibles for percussion instruments rarely open their eyes or hearts to such graciousness on behalf of God.

It is not a 'christian' theology--from what I can tell, even the Universalists don't quite go all out like we are beginning to, Ben!

This is the nature of the TRUE gospel--this is TRULY and COMPLETELY good news!

For all!

Good tidings of great joy for all men!

What else possibly qualifies?



God is so much nobler than we are!



posted on Aug, 7 2006 @ 06:18 PM
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Originally posted by ben91069
The absolute truth of God is that all sins have been forgiven. You may not know it yet, but all the worlds hatred and everyones opinions on what is right and wrong is incorrect



First, how do you know this, that God has forgiven all sins and secondly, by your own words you are "incorrect" so why should we believe you??

Let me explain, you state this :

and everyones opinions on what is right and wrong is incorrect

Understand now the glaring contradiction in your statement? If not here goes....you are telling us that the "absolute truth" is that God has forgiven all sins, the sins of everyone have all been forgiven. You want us to believe this as RIGHT yet you then state that everyones opinions on what's RIGHT and what's wrong is "incorrect" so by your very own words you're incorrect and no one should believe your statement.

Thank you



posted on Aug, 7 2006 @ 08:46 PM
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Originally posted by UnrealZA
Understand now the glaring contradiction in your statement? If not here goes....you are telling us that the "absolute truth" is that God has forgiven all sins, the sins of everyone have all been forgiven. You want us to believe this as RIGHT yet you then state that everyones opinions on what's RIGHT and what's wrong is "incorrect" so by your very own words you're incorrect and no one should believe your statement.


Ben DID NOT say it was his opinion that God has forgiven all sins.

He said it was TRUTH.

I will vouch for him and for the truth he spoke. It is not my 'opinion,' either.

It is truth and the way we both know is the same way--and only the source of the truth can declare truth.

And it is expected that the truth will be far more scorned than it will be accepted, on the material plane.



posted on Aug, 7 2006 @ 09:46 PM
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Originally posted by queenannie38

Originally posted by UnrealZA
Understand now the glaring contradiction in your statement? If not here goes....you are telling us that the "absolute truth" is that God has forgiven all sins, the sins of everyone have all been forgiven. You want us to believe this as RIGHT yet you then state that everyones opinions on what's RIGHT and what's wrong is "incorrect" so by your very own words you're incorrect and no one should believe your statement.


Ben DID NOT say it was his opinion that God has forgiven all sins.

He said it was TRUTH.

I will vouch for him and for the truth he spoke. It is not my 'opinion,' either.

It is truth and the way we both know is the same way--and only the source of the truth can declare truth.

And it is expected that the truth will be far more scorned than it will be accepted, on the material plane.


queen,

You skirted the obvious contradictions within the posters statements.

A cannot be B and A at the same time. This violates the law of Non-contradiction. In other words one cannot claim to "know Truth" yet then also deny that we can know anything of Truth, that all those who claim to know what's right are in fact incorrect. If this be true then the posters very own statement cannot be held as truth either.



posted on Aug, 7 2006 @ 11:31 PM
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Originally posted by UnrealZA
First, how do you know this, that God has forgiven all sins and secondly, by your own words you are "incorrect" so why should we believe you??

Let me explain, you state this :

and everyones opinions on what is right and wrong is incorrect

Understand now the glaring contradiction in your statement? If not here goes....you are telling us that the "absolute truth" is that God has forgiven all sins, the sins of everyone have all been forgiven. You want us to believe this as RIGHT yet you then state that everyones opinions on what's RIGHT and what's wrong is "incorrect" so by your very own words you're incorrect and no one should believe your statement.

Thank you


I was talking about spiritual truth, which cannot be proven or disproven to anyone by me nor do I care to "make" you believe in what I said, because only God can do this. Even if I could tell you why this is true, you would probably not believe it and find even more arguments to back up your side of the coin. When I mentioned right and wrong I was talking of worldy beliefs in what is good and what is bad. I was talking about the only solution (truth) for mankind - that being forgiveness from our creator - otherwise we are all doomed to be destroyed. There are only two beliefs, one being the belief in forgiveness of all sins which allows all humanity to be saved and the other which believes in right and wrong, which must bring about judgment and destruction. So I ask you if the absolute truth is WRONG, then what is your basis for saying that what is RIGHT will guarantee your own destruction? Are you saying that the world should have never been born because it is all folly or are you saying it is RIGHT for you to be destroyed?

To answer your first question, I know this is correct because I have tested the logic behind it and thus God used this to make me believe it. You could say that people believe that right and wrong is what God reveals to them, but what they are doing is defining God by what they see in the world of the anti-christ, or in otherwords, creating God into their own image. By doing so, they are telling God they want to be judged for sin, because they believe that sins aren't forgiven. Fortunately for them, there are those who know the truth and this will be their saving grace. For if a man is a believer, then his wife and children are sanctified through the husbands belief.



posted on Aug, 7 2006 @ 11:34 PM
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Originally posted by TONE23
Sorry ben,

I wasnt really having the best week.


You make some good points. And I apologize for jumping down your throat.





No apology necessary TONE, but I do find that you are loved dearly by God and many others. Everyone has rotten days, and I am no different. I never took offense or held it against you. Keep seeking and you will find what you are looking for!



posted on Aug, 7 2006 @ 11:51 PM
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Originally posted by UnrealZA
queen,

You skirted the obvious contradictions within the posters statements.


No, I did not. There is no contradiction if the statements are taken just as they are written.

Opinion does not = absolute truth
Opinion is = relative truth

Spiritual revelation is not opinion. It is truth given to the soul by the Spirit of Truth in the name of Christ by the authority of God the Father.

If one doesn't believe or trust such ideas, then that's okay.

But that doesn't entitle anyone (believer or not) to change the original meaning or import of the words written by another and then claim there is a contradiction.

The contradiction lies within your comprehension, perhaps--not inherently in the words written when taken at their apparent value.



posted on Aug, 8 2006 @ 10:41 AM
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Hello and thanks for the reply. Let's look at it.

You stated:



I was talking about spiritual truth, which cannot be proven or disproven to anyone by me nor do I care to "make" you believe in what I said, because only God can do this.


I am then puzzled by another statement you made, which is:



To answer your first question, I know this is correct because I have tested the logic behind it and thus God used this to make me believe it.


You claim that "spiritual truth" can't be proven or disproven and you then claim that you know this to be "correct". Is this not just your "opinion" then? This is "true for you" but not for all mankind, correct?

Truth is Absolute, it can never be "wrong".

There are only two beliefs, but they are Believers in God and unbelievers. All man is guilty of one sin which is UNbelief. All shall die in their sin but by the grace of God He has, before the foundations of the earth, predestined some for salvation, others for damnation. Do you object to this? If so then who are you, the clay, to object to the potter that you have been wronged by Him?

Sin is what seperates us from God for while he is LOVE he is first HOLY and PURE and thus His love is a HOLY LOVE. Likewise He is also a God of Judgement, His Judgement is either in Grace or Condemnation but either way it is Everlasting for He is Everlasting and thus so are His Judgements and Attributes.

Truth is Absolute, to deny this then validates it. Gods Truth is exclusive, for He is the Author of Truth, it is not all inclusive.



posted on Aug, 8 2006 @ 10:54 AM
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Thank you Queenannie,

God has given me, by revelation, a message that Ben and you are in error and wrong. What now? Who are you to say that this did not happen or I am wrong in my interpretation of that spiritual revelation?



Spiritual revelation is not opinion. It is truth given to the soul by the Spirit of Truth in the name of Christ by the authority of God the Father.


Which God? Which Spirit of Truth? Which Jesus?

There MUST be a rule or guide that we determine right and wrong. If not I can then claim anything and it must be believed. This is the error of those seeking to live by a relative truth mindset.

The relativist claims that truth is relative, and is relative for ALL people and have thus made relative truth an ABSOLUTE for all. It fails..it implodes and thus cannot stand.

Again, to claim that everyone who says what's right and wrong, whether it be in morals or spiritual truths, is incorrect has also, in that same breath, discounted their very own statement for they are trying to tell us what is "right".

"It is my opinion, that everyone who tells you what's right or wrong is just wrong!"

This is like me saying..."I'm a liar, trust me on this!"



posted on Aug, 8 2006 @ 11:06 AM
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Originally posted by UnrealZA
Hello and thanks for the reply. Let's look at it.


You look at it, because what you are trying to do is get me to ultimately try to prove the absolute truth apart from God, for which he can only be believed in by faith. Why are you caught up in deliberating it when this message is not for those who want it proven to them? If you want a sign of proof, then look to the sign of Jonah.

You are like the people who wrote a 50 some page paper to prove that 1 + 1 =2, even though it is self-evident.

I will not be drawn into a debate with you, because it will never end as I proved this to myself by answering your last post.

Let me assure you that what has been revealed to me is true. Now if you want to debate it, then debate it with God because it is your sins that must pay for squabbling over every iota of wording instead of missing the point. Did you really think I intended this post to debate it with people? I have better things to do than to give it to the swine who will trample it under foot instead of treasuring it.

There are those out there who believe what I have said and the only simple logic you need to prove it is that we are either forgiven or we are destroyed. Now which category do you fall in?

Edit:

I did not claim spiritual proof couldn't be proven. What I said was it cannot be proven to anyone by me - only God can do that.

[edit on 8-8-2006 by ben91069]



posted on Aug, 8 2006 @ 07:04 PM
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ben,

Sorry you do not wish to continue, but that's fine. Here though is what puzzles me.

You state that you will no longer debate this with me yet close your post by asking me another question, which is, are we forgiven or destroyed? Why do you ask me that if you will nolonger debate it with me?

Well anyway, here goes. Scripture states that all men are guilty of sin and their punish is death, eternal seperation from God. Yet by Gods grace He has saved some...not all people for not all Believe. So not ALL people (Universalism) are saved but only those whom God has called to be His.

Take care



posted on Aug, 8 2006 @ 09:36 PM
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Dig deeper!!!!


For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Romans 11:32

This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation. For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
1 Timothy 4:9-10

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Romans 5:12

Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Romans 5:18

Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
1 Corinthians 3:13-15



posted on Aug, 8 2006 @ 10:08 PM
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Originally posted by queenannie38
Dig deeper!!!!


For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Romans 11:32

This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation. For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
1 Timothy 4:9-10

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Romans 5:12

Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Romans 5:18

Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
1 Corinthians 3:13-15


Queen,

I have no clue as to what you mean to express by these passages?

Is it that ALL shall be saved, as in Universalism? Please expound a bit here. Thanks



posted on Aug, 8 2006 @ 10:26 PM
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Originally posted by TONE23
If god forgives those types of people then Id rather be in hell.

I mean really why even try if anything you do gets you saved anyway... why not just go out and commit all of those atrocities at once and continuously?

Nah, it makes no sense what-so-ever. I mean why have the Ten Commandments?

Why have a bible?
There had better be accountability for scumbags that do this stuff...or else When I shuffle off this mortal coil.. I am personally going to kick gods A$$!

NO! I am not ready for this... But Ill tell you this...if you are right...then God better be ready for me... Cause his A$$ is grass!

and he will be doing this
to me! when I am finished with him.


And here is a reminder for you, Tone23, even though I agree with you that not everyone will be saved.

It is written in the Bible (Galatians 6:7):
" Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

Here are some men and women who thought themselves above God:

JOHN LENNON:
Some years before during his interview with an American Magazine, he
said:

"Christianity will end, it will disappear. I do not have to argue about that. I am certain. Jesus was ok, but his subjects were too simple, Today we are more famous than Him" (1966).

Lennon, after saying that the Beatles were more famous than Jesus Christ, was shot six times.

TANCREDO NEVES (President of Brazil):
During the Presidential campaign, he said if he got 500 votes from his party, not even God would remove him from Presidency. Sure he got the votes, but he got sick a day before being made President, then he died.


CAZUZA (Bi-sexual Brazilian composer, singer and poet):
During a show in Canecão ( Rio de Janeiro ), whilst smoking his cigarette, he puffed out some smoke into the air and said: "God, that's for you."

He died at the age of 32 of AIDS in a horrible manner.


THE MAN WHO BUILT TITANIC:
After the construction of Titanic, a reporter asked him how safe the Titanic would be. With an ironic tone he said: "Not even God can sink it"

The result: I think you all know what happened to the Titanic.


MARILYN MONROE:
She was visited by Billy Graham during a presentation of a show. He is a preacher and Evangelist and the Spirit of God had sent him to preach to her.

After hearing what the Preacher had to say, she said:

"I don't need your Jesus"

A week later, she was found dead in her apartment.


BON SCOTT:
The ex-vocalist of the AC/DC. On one of his 1979 songs he sang:

"Don't stop me, I'm going down all the way, wow the highway to hell".

On the 19th of February 1980, Bon Scott was found dead, he had been choked by his vomit.

CAMPINAS/SP IN 2005
In Campinas, Brazil a group of friends, drunk, went to pick up a friend. The mother accompanied her to the car and was so worried about the drunkenness of her friends and she said to the daughter - holding her hand, who was already seated in the car: "MY DAUGHTER, GO WITH GOD AND MAY HE PROTECT YOU",

She responded: ONLY IF HE (GOD) TRAVELS IN THE BOOT, COZ INSIDE HERE IT'S ALREADY FULL"

Hours later, news came by that they had been involved in a fatal accident, everyone had died, the car could not be recognized what type of car it had been, but surprisingly, the boot was intact.

The police said there was no way the boot could have remained intact. To their surprise, inside the boot was a crate of eggs, none was broken.

Many more important people have forgotten that there is no other name that was given so much authority as the name of Jesus. Many have died, but only Jesus died and rose again, and he is still alive. JESUS!!!



posted on Aug, 8 2006 @ 10:35 PM
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I always thought that you have to want to be forgiven. Not automatically pardoned.



posted on Aug, 8 2006 @ 10:44 PM
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Originally posted by spanishcaravan
I always thought that you have to want to be forgiven. Not automatically pardoned.


In a way, that makes sense....

BUT

have you ever had someone wrong you or hurt you, some how, and never ask you for forgiveness--for whatever reason--yet you forgave them, anyway?



posted on Aug, 8 2006 @ 10:58 PM
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Originally posted by curiousityAnd here is a reminder for you, Tone23, even though I agree with you that not everyone will be saved.


Gee whiz, curiousity, the guy apologized ~ cut him some slack!


Originally posted by TONE23
Sorry ben,

I wasnt really having the best week.

You make some good points. And I apologize for jumping down your throat.


Aside from all that, as to your statement of:


Many have died, but only Jesus died and rose again, and he is still alive. JESUS!!!


Many have died, but all will die. At least in the flesh. All those people you listed were bound to die sooner or later, but as to whether or not God 'killed' them for their braggadocio is something NONE of us know. Not you, not me, not anyone.



posted on Aug, 8 2006 @ 11:04 PM
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Originally posted by spanishcaravan
I always thought that you have to want to be forgiven. Not automatically pardoned.


Many people desire to be forgiven, for this seems to be the path that begins the journey to salvation. However, it has never been about our desires at all. Many believe that you have to seek God to find him, but all will find him in the end, for he is in all of us and his desire is to make hisself known to us. What we believe about forgiveness ultimately does not matter, in that we eventually will be able to see the results of forgiveness in God's Kingdom. It isn't a matter if you even give this a thought at all, because the truth about it will be known no matter what. For those who know the truth already, it is icing on the cake - so to speak - because some have sought God and others have not, but either way God has made hisself known to them without any merits and works done by them, so they cannot boast in any way that they had a part in their own salvation. Whether you know it or not, forgiveness is the only way that the world will be spared from total destruction. When people finally see this, then they will understand the purpose of forgiveness.



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