Taiwan seeking to by up to 66 F-16's

Congressional sources have indicated that Taiwan is seeking to purchase up to 66 F-16 C/D Block 50/52 fighters to replace older types in its inventory.

Taiwan seeks 66 F-16 fighters

China is urging Washington to not allow the sale. I wonder if offered the Taiwaneese would look at the Block 60 variant fitted with an AESA radar? That would provide a potent air defence a/c in addition to its missile defence and strike capacities.

Yeah I read about this story a few days ago and I hope the deal goes through, the Block 52 is vastly superior to the A version they currently use. And as you indicated they might be interested in the Block 60, the UAE has already ordered 80 of them for 8 Billion.

[edit on 27-7-2006 by WestPoint23]

Just to add on some details about this deal and other possible plans Taiwan may have in regards to its military forces. Emphasis added by me.

While Taiwan is planning to increase its defense budget to cope with military threats from China, the Ministry of National Defense is assessing a plan to buy sixty-six F-16 C/D fighters from the United States for NT$130 billion (US$4 billion) in order to strengthen its air defense capabilities. 

The budget for buying the F-16 C/D Block 52 fighters would likely appear alongside other budgets for the purchase of eight diesel-fueled traditional submarines, 12 P-3C anti-submarine aircraft, and eight batteries of PAC-III missiles in next year's defense budget to be sent to the Legislature for screening later this year. 

The sources said once the deal is concluded Taiwan will also begin technical cooperation with P&W Co. for the manufacture, assembly and maintenance of P100 PW engines for F-16 fighters in Taiwan. A P&W executive expressed confidence in cooperation with Taiwan's aerospace industry after checking on its production lines and other facilities. 

Link

Taiwan needs F-16 C/D fighters to help maintain its air supremacy in the Taiwan Strait, as chances of acquiring new generation fighters being developed in the United States are slim in the next 10 to 15 years, said an MND official. 

The proposed deal was raised in a recent military workshop held in Washington in February, with the participation of foreign service and military officers as well as defense industry representatives from the United States and Taiwan. Most of the participants agreed that Taiwan should have F-16 C/D fighters to cope with China's military buildup. 

Among other weapons on Taiwan's priority procurement list are naval anti-aircraft missiles for the country's new frigates and 30 AH-64 and S-Z assault helicopters for the formation of an army squadron of airborne rangers. 

Link

Related Sources
China Urges US to Stop Sale of F-16’s
Taiwan Contemplates Possible Deal
Chinese Reaction

F-16 Block 50/52/60 Information

Advanced versions of the Block 50/52 F-16s are difficult to tell from previous F-16s, as most changes are internal. However, the two-seat models of the Advanced Block 50/52 and Block 60 are equipped with a dorsal avionics compartment that accommodates all of the systems of the single-seat model as well as some special mission equipment and additional chaff/flare dispensers. Most aircraft are procured wit Conformal Fuel Tanks (CFT) for extended range and mission endurance. The rear cockpit can be configured for either a weapon system operator or an instructor pilot and can be converted with a single switch in the cockpit.

For air/air missions, the aircraft is equipped with medium range missiles such as the AIM-120A AMRAAM. For close range combat, the aircraft can support the AIM-9X, IRIS-T, Python 4 and Python 5. The aircraft also retains the capability to use the six barrel 20mm Gatling gun. Block 52 configurations are also equipped with an advanced version of the APG-68 radar - the (V)9, while F-16E/F is fitted with the new APG-80 Active Electronic Scanning Array (AESA) system. These new radars have improved performance, higher processing speed and memory capacities and improved high-resolution synthetic aperture radar mode which allows the pilot to locate and recognize tactical ground targets from considerable distances. In conjunction with inertial aided weapons, the advanced F-16 gains an enhanced capability for all-weather precision strike from standoff distances.

Link

Related Sources
F-16 C/D Fighting Falcon
Block 52 F-16

As you can see Taiwan is looking to greatly expand its military force so that it can compete with the ever growing presence of China across the straight. Taiwan's air force currently consists of about 340 2nd generation aircraft such as F-16A’s, Mirage-2000’s and the indigenous IDF-3 fighter along with some F-5‘s. The upgraded 3rd Generation F-16C/D would not only strengthen Taiwan's air capability against Chinas own indigenous fighter the J-10 but it would also enhance the lethality of Taiwan's existing fighters through its advanced sensors and avionics suite. Taiwan is also looking to expand its SAM capabilities by showing interest in the PAC-III, it already operates the PAC-2 GEM but the PAC-3 would increase its TBM defenses (its estimated China has around 750-800 TBMs within range of Taiwan), however the PAC-3 can also be used for an anti-aircraft and anti-cruise missile role. IMO these purchases are necessary so that Taiwan can try to keep up with China's military which is modernizing at a very rapid pace. Taiwans navy could also use new generation AIP subs and a few ASW aircraft such as the P-3 as well.

[edit on 27-7-2006 by WestPoint23]

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Yeah I read about this story a few days ago and I hope the deal goes through, the Block 52 is vastly superior to the A version they currently use. And as you indicated they might be interested in the Block 60, the UAE has already ordered 80 of them for 8 Billion.

[edit on 27-7-2006 by WestPoint23]

Bl 60 goes for 100 mil $ a piece
I knew they were expensive but not that much. This probably includes weaponry, but still... Is that the price for all future customers or the sheikhs just got ripped off. Wonder how much an F-35 will cost, or the F-22 when they decide to sell it.

Blk 60 as far as I know was developed for the UAE, the 8 billion seems a little steep even throwing in developement costs, I reckon ive seen a source putting it at around 4 billion for the 80 fighters , no time at the moment to hunt for a source , going to the pub!

[edit on 28-7-2006 by buckaroo]

Ok, change in figures, the UAE deal was for 80 F-16C/D Block 60 (55 C's and 25 D's). The total deal including missiles was worth 7 Billion USD, with missiles accounting for 2 Billion USD. There are other factors included in the total purchase price such as training and support staff, UAE F-16 pilots and staff are being trained in Arizona.

Modifications & Armament
The UAE purchased USD $2 billion in sophisticated aircraft armament for its F-16s, including 491 AIM-120B AMRAAM Missiles, 267 AIM-9M Sidewinder, 163 AGM-88 Harm, 1,163 AGM-65D/G Maverick, 52 AGM-84 Harpoon, laser guided bombs, 20mm ammunition and other weaponry.

Link

[edit on 28-7-2006 by WestPoint23]

Originally posted by FredT

China is urging Washington to not allow the sale.

I think that line is hilarious. China sells to every Tom Dick and Harry who can pony up the cash, even USA enemies, but wants the US to not sell to Taiwan? Man the nuggets on those guys!

Look out, Chinese air force! I like your Flankers fighters but our F-16s are far more superior than your jets. Unless you can pull off the new tricks to prove that your big jets can take the fight against smaller jets.

hmm... i wonder if china suddenly freezing accounts for n. korea might be a response to this. you scratch my back, i'll scratch yours.

RH that is a concern of mine too, the geopolitical world is too dynamic and intertwined today to allow the kind of stand up policies of the past, on most occasions I might add. You think the US not resolving the WTO issue with Russia could have something to do with the Russians not blocking the deal to Venezuela? Err… yeah.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
You think the US not resolving the WTO issue with Russia could have something to do with the Russians not blocking the deal to Venezuela? Err… yeah.

that's part of it, yes. If you look at Russia's overall behaviour during the G8, you can see an insecure country struggling to stay relevant. If you look at past behaviour during the cold war, you can see that russia is ALWAYS very worried about close US-German relations. aborted back massages notwithstanding, the US and Germany are forging much closer ties now that Merkel is in office, that has russia worried.

Greetings everyone.

According to the Lockheed Martin web site, the F-16A/Bs delivered to Taiwan where built new to MLU (MidLife Update) standard, making them A and B models in name only. This was probably done for political reasons.

As the F-104s were retired, they were replaced with the Lockheed Martin F-16A/B MLU Block 20 Fighting Falcon.
Lockheed Martin

The European F-16 MLU aircraft have the capability to carry AIM-120 AMRAAM missiles, air to ground missiles and laser guided bombs, and I would be surprised if the Taiwanese F-16 MLU aircraft didn’t have that capability also. Taiwan has also purchased Lockheed Martin Sharpshooter targeting pods and Pathfinder navigation pods making their F-16A/B model versions very capable strike aircraft too.

The Taiwanese F-5E Tiger II aircraft need to be replaced, and the new F-16C/D aircraft (if acquired) will be an excellent replacement, giving the Taiwanese air force a much needed increase in capability.


Regards from Hoff.

Originally posted by OneMyrmidon
Look out, Chinese air force! I like your Flankers fighters but our F-16s are far more superior than your jets. Unless you can pull off the new tricks to prove that your big jets can take the fight against smaller jets.

Sorry for asking
What do you like about Flankers if they are inferior to the F-16. For me, everything that is inferior to the F-16 is complete crap. So those Flanker things must be real junk, huh. Somebody should stop the poor countries that buy them and tell them to get F-16s. The crazy Indians and Chinese are buying Flankers when for the price of only 2 Flankers they can get a whole F-16. Madness. More power to you Myrmidon, spread the word. F-16 rulez

Sorry for asking
What do you like about Flankers if they are inferior to the F-16. For me, everything that is inferior to the F-16 is complete crap. So those Flanker things must be real junk, huh. Somebody should stop the poor countries that buy them and tell them to get F-16s. The crazy Indians and Chinese are buying Flankers when for the price of only 2 Flankers they can get a whole F-16. Madness. More power to you Myrmidon, spread the word. F-16 rulez

Ah, I can clarify this one for you, Pazo... F-16 Falcons already proved itself in the battles to fight and win. Its simply already happened before in many battles. Don't forget Israel's small numbers of F-16s whup Syrian's air force in Bekka Valley, with ratio of 44-0.... All of us also haven't known anything about Flankers in combat yet which also ask me, should anyone have the right to compare Su-30 to F-15 Eagle, personally, I don't think we should because F-15 already prove the formidable record of kill-score ratio of more than 100-0 from all four air forces. (USAF, Japan, Israel and Saudi Arabia)

Text

Thanks Myrmidon, you keep enlightening me.
I will not comment on your data of the combat record of the F-16, we're clearly not on the same page so it's useless.
Just because the F-16 has gone to war and the Flanker hasn't (that's according to you, Ethiopian Flankers shot down several Erithrean MiG-29's, but I guess you are not as enlightened as you think), you conclude that the F-16 is "far more superior"? Who talks like that BTW, are you eight?
This only shows that countries buying F-16 go to war more often than the ones buying Flankers, has nothing to do with the capabilities of both planes. Just because Mike Tyson hasn't fought you and he's in bad shape doesn't mean he won't knock you out in 3 secs if he did.
If you want to prove the F-16 bl 60 is superior, you might mention AESA, AIM-120C, or something like that, but then again I doubt you could tell the difference between AESA radars and Double-Quarterpounders with Cheese.

Intresting! I personally think Taiwan should go ahead and get its F-16's. China doesn't recognize and accept Taiwan status as a soveregn nation. I think they see Taiwan having advanced weapons as a threat.

Tim

Originally posted by OneMyrmidon
Look out, Chinese air force! I like your Flankers fighters but our F-16s are far more superior than your jets. Unless you can pull off the new tricks to prove that your big jets can take the fight against smaller jets.

Actually, the Su-30MKK are far superior to the F-16C's, in many aspects. Longer range, heavier plane, bigger payload, also is a two seater, it acts more as a strike bomber than anything else, but I'd imagine the air superiority equivilant would be far more superior.

Shattered OUT...

I thought that TaiWan should buy some Harriers since Taiwan where is small place, they will have no runway to be used after PLA missile attacking.

I believe Taiwan has contingencies in place and practices routinely taking and landing off from highways, and paved roads.

EDIT: Added Link.

Link


[edit on 2-8-2006 by WestPoint23]

^^
All AirForces which have foes considerably more formidable(numerical/technological) than them, resort to the same roads-as-runways contingency.
The PAF follows a similar principle I think.