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What are the connections between the Knights of Columbus and Freemasons?

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posted on Jul, 27 2006 @ 01:57 AM
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I had once read that Knights of Columbus were rivals to Freemasons, and were also a secret society as well. Is there a connection between both societies and were they once the same society?

Any help will be appreciated. Thank you.




posted on Jul, 27 2006 @ 02:52 AM
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i believe K of C are mainly a Roman Catholic organization. The Catholic Church and Freemasonry don't exactly have the best relationship.

But since they are both mainly philanthropic organizations what would we gain from their rivalry?



posted on Jul, 27 2006 @ 03:47 AM
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Instead of guessing try googling

About Masons vs KoC
www.masonicinfo.com...


About KoC from Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org...

About KoC from the Catholic Church
www.newadvent.org...


Oh and then there is about the KoC from the KoC
www.state.kofcva.org...


I think I'm gonna start charging research fees....
Would have to charge bout $1,000 per hour to make any money... Lets seee that took 24 sec to find...bout 1.5 minutes to post..... sheesh


[edit on 27-7-2006 by zorgon]



posted on Jul, 27 2006 @ 04:05 AM
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From what iv read the knights of columbus are a catholic organisation and venomitly denies that threre members become freemasons were as the freemasons will allow catholics into their organisation.

The catholc church seem to think that the freemason are compition for many reasons including:
Freemasonry's perceived religious nature together with its acceptance of people of any faith is alleged to minimize the importance of Catholic religious dogma

It is alleged to advocate a Deist view of religion

In the past some Masonic lodges have advocated a radical separation of church and state[1] and this is perceived to be true of all Freemasonry

Avowedly anti-clerical groups such as the carbonari in the Papal States are alleged to have followed a Masonic agenda as well as having based their organisation on Masonic forms.

Freemasonry is seen as having characteristics of a secret society and its very secrecy created distrust

It is alleged that Masonic initiation rituals for the Scotish Rite degrees (commonly mislabeled as being "higher" or "advanced" degrees are anti-Catholic)

So it seems to stem from a disagreement of religious points of view.


www.cephas-library.com...
en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Jul, 27 2006 @ 11:39 AM
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Originally posted by DJMessiah
I had once read that Knights of Columbus were rivals to Freemasons, and were also a secret society as well. Is there a connection between both societies and were they once the same society?

Any help will be appreciated. Thank you.


Fraternal organzations were rampant and popular back when the Knights of Columbus were formed. Fr. Micheal J. McGivney (founder of the K of C) saw the need for a fraternal benefit society that Catholics could be a part of, and created the Knights of Columbus.

Supreme Councils statutes are that one can not be both a K of C and Mason at the same time. You need to be a practical Catholic, male, in good standing with the church to be a Knight. Your not in good standing if you join masonry and are Catholic.

They were never the same society. As others have stated, K of C enrolls only practical Catholics, Freemasons accept anyone that believes in a Supreme Being.

You can learn more from Supreme Councils website www.kofc.org...

Sir Knight John


[edit on 27-7-2006 by chief_counsellor]



posted on Jul, 27 2006 @ 08:28 PM
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the k of c were rivals of the masons in that catholics were forbidden from joining the masons and thus the k of c was created to offer them an alternative fraternal order. there's really not any more to it than that. I tend to think most modern masonic conspiracy theories are ridiculous, but any theory involving the k of c is even more so. they've never been anything more than a charity.



posted on Jul, 28 2006 @ 08:37 AM
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Thanks for the replies, guys. So I understand the Catholic church condemned the Freemasons due to their heirchy of advanced degrees, so wouldn't the KoC also fit with this as well, or is there another system in place that differs from the Freemasons?



posted on Jul, 28 2006 @ 08:50 AM
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Originally posted by DJMessiah
Thanks for the replies, guys. So I understand the Catholic church condemned the Freemasons due to their heirchy of advanced degrees, so wouldn't the KoC also fit with this as well, or is there another system in place that differs from the Freemasons?


The Roman Catholic Church condemned Freemasonry not because of the advanced degrees, but because the Church claims that the fraternity teaches doctrines of naturalism and secular humanism that are in conflict with Catholic theology. For example, the fraternity has long taught that two of the most important principles of liberty are the complete separation of church and state, and support for the public system. In the anti-Masonic papal bull Humanum Genus, Pope Leo XIII claims that the Church has a divine right to align with the state, and that the Church has a divine right to educate all children. Freemasonry denies the Church these rights, saying that its proper authority lies only in matters of faith with its flock (not outside of its congregation, to non-Catholics).

The Knights of Columbus, on the other hand, are composed of the Catholic faithful, and have given allegiance to the Church and its teachings.



posted on Jul, 28 2006 @ 01:57 PM
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Originally posted by DJMessiah
Thanks for the replies, guys. So I understand the Catholic church condemned the Freemasons due to their heirchy of advanced degrees, so wouldn't the KoC also fit with this as well, or is there another system in place that differs from the Freemasons?


There are only 4 degrees in the Knights of Columbus. Full Knighthood obtained in the 3rd degree, Complete Knighthood obtained in the 4th. The degrees compliment ones faith as a Catholic gentlemen. Many priests, Bishops, and Cardinals are Knights as well.

My Bishop is a Knight, and the majority of the priests in my city as well.

Pope John Paul II was quoted as saying, the "Knights of Columbus are the strong right arm of the church".

If you notice my Avatar, it is the symbol of the 4th degree. One of the things it represents is the Holy Trinity, the dove, the Holy Spirit, the Cross, the cross of Christ, the Earth, God the Father. It represents other things as well, but I won't go into full detail unless you want it.

[edit on 28-7-2006 by chief_counsellor]



posted on Jul, 28 2006 @ 02:05 PM
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Another reason why the Freemasons are condemned is because European Freemasonry in the past, have been very hostile to the Catholic Church.

They attacked the church through various means, and propeganda.

There was a masonic document called the Alta Vendita that outlined the various ways the Freemasonry intented to infect the church with liberal ideas, and "destroy" it from within. The discovery of this document was one of the things that led to the writing of Humanum Genus (ENCYCLICAL OF POPE LEO XIII ON FREEMASONRY).

Italian Freemasons used to protest at the Vatican's gates, and shout what the church would consider slander and blasphemy.



posted on Jul, 28 2006 @ 02:14 PM
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Originally posted by chief_counsellor


There was a masonic document called the Alta Vendita that outlined the various ways the Freemasonry intented to infect the church with liberal ideas, and "destroy" it from within. The discovery of this document was one of the things that led to the writing of Humanum Genus (ENCYCLICAL OF POPE LEO XIII ON FREEMASONRY).


The Alta Vendita was not a Masonic document at all, though. It was a manifesto of the Carbonari, which was not a Masonic organization.



posted on Jul, 28 2006 @ 07:30 PM
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There was affiliation with the Freemasons and Carbanari though

www.newadvent.org...


The similarity between the secret society of the Carbonari and Freemasonry is evident. Freemasons could enter the Carbonari as masters at once.


Yeah, I do agree that the Alta Vendita was a document by the Carbonari, but apparently there was strong association between the Carbonari and Freemasons in Italy during the time period when Carbonari existed.



posted on Jul, 29 2006 @ 05:18 AM
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Originally posted by chief_counsellor
Supreme Councils statutes are that one can not be both a K of C and Mason at the same time. You need to be a practical Catholic, male, in good standing with the church to be a Knight. Your not in good standing if you join masonry and are Catholic.


Chiefcounsellor,

Where did you find the statement from the Supreme Council? I have a copy of the Charter, Constitution and Laws of the K of C and Masonry is not mentioned anywhere in it.

Many years ago I went through RCIA and joined the Catholic Church. I spoke to the Priest of our Cathedral about Masonry as well as our Bishop and learned that numerous members of our Parish and throughout the Diocese are Masons. The only thing the Bishop asked was "Has Masonic membership ever interfered with your personal faith?" My answer was, of course "no" (and Masonry should NEVER interfere with one's personal faith. That's one of the fundamentals of Freemasonry)

When I filled out the paperwork for the RCIA program one of the questions was "Do you belong to any secret fraternal group like the Masons, etc?" I wrote "Yes. Freemasons and I.O.O.F"

To this day NOTHING has ever been mentioned about my membership.

When the K of C insurance salesman came by to tell me about the Knights and invite me to join I asked him it my Masonic membership would be a problem to anyone. He replied, "Many of our members are Masons including the Past Grand Knight from last year."

I'd be very interested to know where the Supreme Council forbids Masonic membership.

Thanks



posted on Jul, 29 2006 @ 08:53 AM
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I wrote an email to Supreme Council about being a Mason and a Knight at the same time, and they wrote me back saying that the church forbids membership in Freemasonry, and that you can not be a Knight and a Mason at the same time.

An important part of being a Knight of Columbus is to be obedient to the laws and precepts of the church, and The Vatican states


www.vatican.va...


Therefore the Church’s negative judgment in regard to Masonic association remains unchanged since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable with the doctrine of the Church and therefore membership in them remains forbidden. The faithful who enrol in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion.


This was written by Cardinal Ratzinger (before he was Pope)





[edit on 29-7-2006 by chief_counsellor]



posted on Jul, 29 2006 @ 09:34 AM
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There is no riveraly except on the softball fields.

The KoC was created by the Catholic church to give the Catholic adult men something like the Masons. My understanding is that the church was seeing a decline in attendence because the men were getting their fellowship in the lodge and not in the church and that was the start of the papal declatations that said Masonry was bad.

Again this is my understanding. I'll try to get more info about it.



posted on Jul, 29 2006 @ 09:44 AM
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The KoC is nothing more than a group of devout Catholics who hold functions, mostly fundraising to contribute to their church and community.

I don't know how anyone could even confuse the two or where any other ideas are coming from about the KoC, but I know plenty of them and there is nothing big going on there. there used to be some sort of secret ritual to get in (don't know if it's till used) but it was basically just a test of character, nothing more.

On the other hand, Freemasons are considered incompatible with Catholic teaching, so the two are not connected in any way.

It's that simple.



posted on Jul, 29 2006 @ 09:51 AM
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Originally posted by Relentless
The KoC is nothing more than a group of devout Catholics who hold functions, mostly fundraising to contribute to their church and community.

I don't know how anyone could even confuse the two or where any other ideas are coming from about the KoC, but I know plenty of them and there is nothing big going on there. there used to be some sort of secret ritual to get in (don't know if it's till used) but it was basically just a test of character, nothing more.

On the other hand, Freemasons are considered incompatible with Catholic teaching, so the two are not connected in any way.

It's that simple.



Fair enough statement. My best friend is a KoC and I am a Mason. See it is possible to co-exist LOL



posted on Jul, 29 2006 @ 12:24 PM
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The 'real' reason that the RCC and Masonry don't get along is that Masonry plotted against the RCC. OF course, this was back when the Church was the master of the Papal States and ran the politics of europe to great effect. Masonry is a liberal organization, and thus, especially in those old days, was constantly struggling with tyrants, both ecclesiastical and secular.

The stated reason that a member of the RCC can't be a Mason is that, (as far as I understand it) that Masonry is a secular organization promoting secularism (this of course is from a time when a person who didn't accept church authority could be labled an atheist).


The Carbonari connection is interesting. The Carbonari minimally had some of their groups radicalized against the church-state. But the fact that they'd accept master masons directly into their structure doesn't seem to really mean that they were a coal-smeared arm of Masonry. The culmination of the high degrees of the Carbonari, who, btw, beleived that Jesus was the 'first carbonar' and the exemplar of the order, invovled the member meeting 'in the hut in the forest' being broken up by Austria soldiers, who'd procede to clobber the members, with revolutionary slogans being shouted by them. Clearly, a work up to revolution.

But, lets take this in context, this is in pre-risorgimento Italy, when the Papacy had direct rule over northern Italy, was supported by the shock troops of the Holy Roman Empire, and the public were aggitating for 'liberal and democratic reform' by having a King, of all things. Different world.

The Carbonari were only one (primarily Neapolitan I beleive) secret society out of many, and like pretty much any other secret society, had 'ties', in terms of style and membership, to masonry.
Secret Societies promoting overthrow of The State.



posted on Jul, 29 2006 @ 02:32 PM
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Originally posted by chief_counsellor
I wrote an email to Supreme Council about being a Mason and a Knight at the same time, and they wrote me back saying that the church forbids membership in Freemasonry, and that you can not be a Knight and a Mason at the same time.

An important part of being a Knight of Columbus is to be obedient to the laws and precepts of the church, and The Vatican states


Therefore the Church’s negative judgment in regard to Masonic association remains unchanged since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable with the doctrine of the Church and therefore membership in them remains forbidden. The faithful who enrol in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion.

This was written by Cardinal Ratzinger (before he was Pope)



That's truly interesting C_C. Many thanks! Part of me can understand it because Freemasonry has always been much different in Italy than in the United States. There have also been a lot of schismatic groups claiming to be Freemasonry.

Another interesting tid-bit is that two or three years ago in my neighborhing state of Missouri the Grand Master of Masons was a Catholic.



posted on Jul, 30 2006 @ 05:44 AM
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Excellent replies guys (and gals). Thanks again.

If the Catholic Church (I'm assuming the Vatican) forbids Catholics from entering Masonry, then what pretext would the now Catholic Masons have for joining? Is there an assumption by some Catholic groups (the ones who enter) that the ban on Freemason initiation is no longer valid?





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