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British Professor says Israel is a Terrorist State

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posted on Jul, 26 2006 @ 07:02 PM
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First it was the American Professor Noam Chomsky who said that Israel uses terror to win its enemies. Now more academics around the world are joining in declaring Israel to be a terrorist nation.


Professor Oren Ben:




Who are the real terrorists in the Middle East?

What exactly is being defended? Is it the citizens of Israel or the nature of the Israeli state?


The writer teaches the philosophy of law and political philosophy at University of Southampton

26 July 2006

As its citizens are being killed, Israel is, yet again, inflicting death and destruction on Lebanon. It tries to portray this horror as necessary for its self-defence. Indeed, the casual observer might regard the rocket attacks on Israeli cities such as Haifa and my own home town, Nahariya, as justifying this claim.

While states should defend their citizens, states which fail this duty should be questioned and, if necessary, reconfigured. Israel is a state which, instead of defending its citizens, puts all of them, Jews as well as non-Jews, in danger.

What exactly is being defended by the violence in Gaza and Lebanon? Is it the citizens of Israel or the nature of the Israeli state? I suggest the latter. Israel's statehood is based on an unjust ideology which causes indignity and suffering for those who are classified as non-Jewish by either a religious or ethnic test. To hide this primordial immorality, Israel fosters an image of victimhood. Provoking violence, consciously or unconsciously, against which one must defend oneself is a key feature of the victim-mentality. By perpetuating such a tragic cycle, Israel is a terrorist state like no other.

comment.independent.co.uk...




*SNIP*

[edit on 26-7-2006 by mr conspiracy]

Mod Edit: Removed Graphic Image Links, Reduced External Quote, Removed Personal Information.

[edit on 26/7/2006 by Mirthful Me]


Mod Note: Middle East Conflict Forum Posting Conduct – Please Review This Link.


[edit on 26/7/2006 by Mirthful Me]




posted on Jul, 26 2006 @ 08:39 PM
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Sometimes I wonder also . . . as who the terrorist are . . . given the issue surrounding the conflicts in the middle east . . . it seems to me that everybody involve are terrorist in one way or the other . . .

When the peace in a region can not be achieve any nation that get involves only bring more conflicts and death.

Yes fighting terror seems to be causing more deaths and sorrows that any other conflict been fought in the area.

People have not other choice but to become terrorist and fight back.



posted on Jul, 26 2006 @ 09:43 PM
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I think it goes both ways in this region, they all use terror tactics, some blantantly against civillians, others in retaliation.

I think it is the ones who attack innocent people first, and then cause the retaliation by the people they attacked, they are the real terrorists.

But in this region of the world, the million dollar question is, .... Who started first?



[edit on 26-7-2006 by Keyhole]



posted on Jul, 27 2006 @ 07:48 AM
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The problem is not who started it all, but who actually is a terrorist.

There is no agreement on this question.

One man's terrorists is another man's freedom fighter.

Everybody seems to have their own definition of terrorism.

Even the United Nation has not come with a definition that is acceptable major powers.

There needs to be a conference on terrorism just to define it once and for all.

But somehow I think Washington will either boycott it, or veto it.

Because the definition will make most of its behavior acts of terror.

The fear of President Bush is that America might end up being officially laballed as a terrorist state.

Unofficially, most of the world's population sees Bush as a greater terrorist than Bin Laden.



posted on Jul, 27 2006 @ 07:52 AM
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Academia is always the first place to be critical of war, and usually the last place for good analysis of it.

Nothing new here.



posted on Jul, 27 2006 @ 07:58 AM
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Well, Israel is a country run by a minority sect thats loosly based on general jewish teachings. They care only about their people, which doesn't mean "jews" in general, but people that are part of the Zionist sect.

Imagine the US goverment being run by the KKK or another group like them, what would happen to gay people, black people, hispanic people, foreigners, jews, muslims, christian factions that don't 100% agree with their views, liberals, moderates, or in other words, 99.9% of the US population? Would they care about these people?

Heck no, they would probably kill more then 90% of these people themselves and wouldn't have any regard for anyones freedoms, beliefs or needs.



posted on Jul, 27 2006 @ 08:00 AM
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It never fails to amaze me how many idiots there are teaching in universities.
Idiots who get degrees and then spew crap into the young minds who are there
to learn. It's enough to make a sane person (ME) barf!
Being anti-Jew
and anti-American must be a criteria for university teaching these days.



posted on Jul, 27 2006 @ 08:05 AM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
It never fails to amaze me how many idiots there are teaching in universities.
Idiots who get degrees and then spew crap into the young minds who are there
to learn. It's enough to make a sane person (ME) barf!
Being anti-Jew
and anti-American must be a criteria for university teaching these days.


Being against what the Israeli goverment is doing isn't the same as Anti-Jewish or even Anti-Israeli.

Israel blowing the living daylight out of a neighbouring country that, if you didn't know, has a 40% christian population, because 2 soldiers got taken prisoner as a bargaining chip for negotiations to get some of the 2000+ kidnapped, assasinated, murdered and imprisoned lebanees civilians released or aknowledged by Israel is a normal thing to do?

You think the Israeli population wants whats going on to happen?

[edit on 27/7/06 by thematrix]



posted on Jul, 27 2006 @ 08:07 AM
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wow, an 'academic' says so, he must be right!



posted on Jul, 27 2006 @ 08:29 AM
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I agree with this Israeli/British Professor.

Israel, whilst led by Zionist Bureaucrats, clearly is a Terrorist State (As recently evidenced). Israel is the ultimate Creme de la Creme of state sponsord Terrorism. They are murderers, Cowards, and Theives. Both hatred and deception are seated firmly in their ways. They are professional liars, and even more professional Terrorists.



posted on Jul, 27 2006 @ 08:40 AM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
It never fails to amaze me how many idiots there are teaching in universities.
Idiots who get degrees and then spew crap into the young minds who are there
to learn. It's enough to make a sane person (ME) barf!
Being anti-Jew
and anti-American must be a criteria for university teaching these days.



Another sweeping statement. There is enough crap being spewed out of every Tom, Dick & Harry's mouth as it is. Thank GOD there are people who educate themselves on as issue before they mouth off. Perhaps you could do the same??


This guy is a Professor. Not a guy with just a Degree or a Masters or even a PhD. He is a Professor which means he would be a specialist in that area of study.

Whats your problem with his rhetoric? Is it because he has the alphabet after his name and you dont? OR, are you just angry with the world?

I dont necessarily agree with every academic I have met, but I do respect their opinion regardless.

lol
Who is worthy to spew crap out of their mouths????

Absolutely anyone at all so long as they don't diss Israel???



[edit on 27-7-2006 by NJE777]



posted on Jul, 27 2006 @ 08:55 AM
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Let me point something out, Zionism, itself is anti-Jewish and majority of the people who are against zionism are Jewish



According to Teitelbaum, God and the Jewish people exchanged three oaths at the time of the Jews' exile from ancient Israel:

* That the Jewish people would not rebel against the non-Jews that ruled over them;
* That the Jewish people would not return to Israel (although individual Jews could do so);
* That the non-Jewish world would not persecute the Jews excessively.


(but Jews do say the second oath does not have to be followed anymore due to the events of the holocaust)

en.wikipedia.org...

Wikipedia has a nice article about Zionism and anti-Zionism
I recommend reading up on modern Zionism, its an interesting read.

-----------

But, lately, the word "anti-semtie" is being thrown and tagged to anyone who does not agree with Israel throughout ATS. Its getting very childish now, you cannot express a view without someone dancing in and screaming "nazi scum" and "anti-semite". Lets not forget being called "muslim hater" or "supporting arab killing", i tihnk we have better things to do then calling eachother names.

The threads about the Lebanon and those being killed are being taken over with "what about Israel". Come on guys, lets stop the "Jews vs Arabs" this isn't the 1940s.

Lets grow up, shall we?



posted on Jul, 27 2006 @ 09:34 AM
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Just a thought, these Semites seem to be manufacturing Anti-Semites pretty efficiently (here on ATS an throughout the "civilized" world), is this by design or lack thereof?

I think this professor has it about right for me and my sensibilities - quite refreshing. Israel seems very skilled at shooting themselves in the foot and getting IDF'ers and non-combatants dead... too bad such costly skills are not applied to Hezbollah Terrorists with equal dedication.

Victor K.



posted on Jul, 27 2006 @ 10:12 AM
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The most Ironic thing about the people calling out "anti-semites" at everything and everyone that doesn't support Israel 100% or supports any of the many Arab nations is the following:


Semites are peoples who speak Semitic languages; the group includes Arabs, Aramaeans, Jews, and many Ethiopians.


On this page you can find some more info on the subject, including some detailed info on what the naming SHOULD be:

mb-soft.com...

Every time someone calls someone an anti-semite on these boards, I can't help but chuckle and snort coffee all over the place.

The US Goverment is about as Anti-Semetic as it gets(they hate arabs dearly, no matter where they are from or live), The Israeli Zionists are as Anti-Semetic and racist as it gets too, just look at how Arabs are treated in Israel and how they act towards their Arab neighbours).


[edit on 27/7/06 by thematrix]



posted on Jul, 27 2006 @ 11:30 AM
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Originally posted by Thompsonite
I agree with this Israeli/British Professor.

Israel, whilst led by Zionist Bureaucrats, clearly is a Terrorist State


As opposed to Hezbollah, which can't be a terrorist state, because it isn't a state at all?

Sorry, I realize that joke exposes very complicated concepts like sovereignty, its ok if you don't get it.

I think the word terrorist is now about as abused as any word in the English language. 9/11, Madrid, London, and most recently the India Bombings were committed by terrorist.

I think the professor is trying to be too clever in his critical analysis of Israel, he describes a culture of military solutions for Israel, then makes the leap to terrorism. I think he would have been wise and stayed in context, and gone with militaristic, which is more accurate and at least is in line with his comments.

I'd encourage people to be careful in following the footsteps in lockstep of any professor, while they are usually intelligent, they often speak out of emotion more than that intelligence, and it usually leads to inconsistant political ramblings.

Had he said militaristic, I think I'd agree with him, but terrorism? Talk about ignorance to the meaning of a word.



posted on Jul, 27 2006 @ 11:51 AM
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Thing is, they call North Korea and Iran Terrorist states, but we haven't seen them invade, bomb or otherwise terrorize another nation the last 50 years or so have we?

Other then full out military vs military wars (ex: Iraq vs Iran aka Persian Gulf war) between nations and civil wars (Lebanon, Yemen, ...) in several nations these country's have been rather calm, maybe a bit wordy and windbagish, but as the saying says "barking dogs don't bite".

Israel on the other hand has been fighting against the Palestinians of who they stole land for 42 years already, each and every country around it by launching missiles and airstrikes into them for the slightest thing and it has terrorised groups of its own population for as long as it existed.

Today, they are plain out invading a sovereign nation because 2 of their soldiers were kidnapped.

Did the US ever invade a country because 2 of their spy's or soldiers were kidnapped?

Heck, there are plenty of CIA operatives that died or got caught in the line of duty in Russia, China and other parts of the world of which you never even heard that it happend.

And just last week, some US Border patrol people were found decapitated, which imho is 1000000X worse then getting kidnapped, did the US invade Mexico for that?



posted on Jul, 27 2006 @ 12:09 PM
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Originally posted by darksided
[...]

Had he said militaristic, I think I'd agree with him, but terrorism? Talk about ignorance to the meaning of a word.


What, pray tell is the meaning of the word then?


Google - define:terrorism

Definitions of terrorism on the Web:

  • is defined by the US Department of Defense as "the unlawful use of -- or threatened use of -- force or violence against individuals or property to coerce or intimidate governments or societies, often to achieve political, religious, or ideological objectives."
    www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/teach/alqaeda/glossary.html
  • The FBI defines terrorism as "the unlawful use of force or violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives.
    www.theisraelproject.org/site/apps/nl/content2.asp
  • The systematic use of violence to achieve political ends is not new – among many other examples, it featured during The Troubles in Ireland before its independence in 1922. In recent decades, it has become a common tactic among a wide variety of groups, from independence movements to the secret services of various countries. ...
    www.channel4.com/history/microsites/H/history/browse/glossary.html


More definitions if you click on the link. There's no denying Hezbollah fits several of those definitions. So bringing up Hezbollah is kinda moot. It's a given. But there's also no denying that a lot of groups fit that definition. Including governments.

What one side calls "terrorist" another may call "freedom fighters". What another calls "military solutions" another may call "acts of terrorism". So what do we do?

But I digress. The issue at hand is some professor calling Israel a Terrorist State.

If you look at Israel's actions and some of those definitions, you'd see she fits in quite a number of those definitions too.

Also look up,

Google - define:terrorist state

And interestingly,

Google - define:state terrorism

Definitions be damned. Everything is terrorism these days.

[edit - fixed bbcode...]

[edit on 27-7-2006 by Beachcoma]



posted on Jul, 27 2006 @ 02:47 PM
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Originally posted by darksided
As opposed to Hezbollah, which can\'t be a terrorist state, because it isn\'t a state at all?


Why is it every time someone calls Israel a Terrorist state, someone always pops up and points at Hezbollah? Be it on a Television, or Radio debate, a message board, or any other form of Political discussion, it always happens. It\'s either a distractionary tactic, or some kind of attempt at justification.


Originally posted by darksided
Sorry, I realize that joke exposes very complicated concepts like sovereignty, its ok if you don\'t get it.


Your joke wasn\'t even remotely amusing.



Originally posted by darksided
I think the word terrorist is now about as abused as any word in the English language. 9/11, Madrid, London, and most recently the India Bombings were committed by terrorist.

Had he said militaristic, I think I\'d agree with him, but terrorism? Talk about ignorance to the meaning of a word.


What you have done here is said the word Terrorism, to yourself, over and over again, until the term has lost all its meaning. The Professor is in fact quite correct, and you are the one who holds all the ignorance to the meaning of the word, not he.

Thank you.



posted on Jul, 27 2006 @ 02:55 PM
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Originally posted by V Kaminski
Just a thought, these Semites seem to be manufacturing Anti-Semites pretty efficiently (here on ATS an throughout the "civilized" world), is this by design or lack thereof?

I think this professor has it about right for me and my sensibilities - quite refreshing. Israel seems very skilled at shooting themselves in the foot and getting IDF'ers and non-combatants dead... too bad such costly skills are not applied to Hezbollah Terrorists with equal dedication.

Victor K.


Victor
Anti-semetism is good for business in Israel. Each time anti-semetism in the world rises, the population of Israel increases some more. Usually during periods of high anti-semetism, Israel will send out invitations telling people to return to their homeland to get away from it. They want more warm bodies to occupy those areas that are not fully populated.


Pie



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