Israel "Ignored" UN Troops Pleas To Stop Firing So Close To Them

Originally posted by Odium

Since day one, they've wanted shared rule of Jerusalem. They've always wanted to have their Heads of State in there. If Israel can't share it, they should hand it over to the United Nation's like it was intended to be.

The problems we have now, were seen and certain "Jewish Terrorist Organisations" never disarmed. So the U.N. never moved in to help control it.

That's what the biggest problem for Muslims is, the rule of Israel over their Holy Sites. Many of them can't ever visit it and those who live there are treated as the second class.

So you think the solution would be for Israel to hand over its capital and Judaism's holiest city?? It is Islam's 3rd holiest city. What is Islam's 4th holiest? I hope its not in the US, or we'll be next. Why not ask Saudi Arabia to give up Mecca?

What Jewish terrorist organizations are you talking about? The most recent groups I can find are the Kahanists and the JDL. And from what I can find, there has been one attack in 10 years. This is holding up the peace processs? No wonder the UN can't reign in dedicated militants like Hez.

That isn't the easy way. That's pure capitulation. I take it back. It is the easy way as long as Israel is prepared to give in more and more, when the violence still does not stop.

Originally posted by darksided

I think it is pretty clear you have no military experience, none, and you have basically put yourself out there as an instant expert, only for the rest of ATS to learn you are just another opinion who really doesn\'t know what the heck you are talking about.

Military experience is not required. All you need here is a little common sense; an area where subz clearly gets the better of you. The U.N workers should have been forced to vacate their post before it was totally destroyed. Bombardments on Hezbollah positions around the post are much more understandable, but a precision guided missile actually on the U.N Post itself? No way. The only time that would be acceptable is if Hezbollah had killed the U.N team and taken control of the compound. Is it now being suggested that Hezbollah had taken control of the U.N post? Apparently U.N officials were in contact with it right up until the bombing, and they made no mention that Hezbollah had taken over.

That soldiers email was the same as it was last week when I read it. The only thing updated was his death announcement. It proves nothing and that the artillery landing close by happened before the the day they blew up the outpost. It still doesn't let them off the hook.
I can't find a post I made but in the post I mentioned a shepard boy being killed and that was when I read that soldiers article.

Originally posted by Odium
There's an easy way to do things and Israel won't do it.

Right, and neither will Hezbollah.

But, it still has a militia that refuses to demilitarise, despite UN resolution 1559, passed in 2004, which called for the disarming of militias as well as the withdrawal of foreign (i.e about 14,000 Syrian) forces from Lebanon.

As long ago as 2000, after Israel's withdrawal, Hezbollah was under pressure to integrate its forces into the Lebanese army and focus on its political and social operations.

That is why they're shooting at each other. Neither will acquiesce to the other.

“They are a violent terrorist group. And they have demonstrated throughout their now 25-year history a hatred of the United States and a willingness to kill our people.”

Sen. Bob Graham, Florida Democrat

So let's see, Hezbollah has kidnapped Westerners in Lebanon, including several Americans, in the 1980s, used truck bombs that killed more than 200 U.S. Marines at their barracks in Beirut in 1983, hijacked hijacking of TWA flight 847 in 1985, the 1990s attacks on Jewish targets in Argentina, the 1992 bombing of the Israeli Embassy, and the 1994 bombing of a Jewish community center.

I think they should activate some of their cells and start taking out targets in the CONUS. That would get some attention and certainly prompt the USA to push a cease fire. A few hundred or more dead civilians would do wonders to change Bush's mind to side with the UN and stop Israel from retaliating when attacked.

Here ya go haters:




Yes, thats correct, its a picture of Hezbollah and UN flags next to eachother in Lebanon.

UN = The most corrupt and useless oganization on the planet. Now terrorist collaborators.

GO ISRAEL!

Originally posted by Thompsonite Is it now being suggested that Hezbollah had taken control of the U.N post? Apparently U.N officials were in contact with it right up until the bombing, and they made no mention that Hezbollah had taken over.

Counter thought: If Hezies took over and were trying to rile up the general public, would they allow those phone calls to ever mention that they took over...*gun pointing to head while you make your phone call makes for some serious misdirection*....

Originally posted by jlc163
Counter thought: If Hezies took over and were trying to rile up the general public, would they allow those phone calls to ever mention that they took over...*gun pointing to head while you make your phone call makes for some serious misdirection*....

You have a good point. I shall reserve it as a fair possibility.

Originally posted by Thompsonite

Originally posted by jlc163
Counter thought: If Hezies took over and were trying to rile up the general public, would they allow those phone calls to ever mention that they took over...*gun pointing to head while you make your phone call makes for some serious misdirection*....

You have a good point. I shall reserve it as a fair possibility.

Personally, I think it's unlikely, since Hezies are more likely to pull what's been going on in Iraq: public beheading....but then, knowing Israel's syle, if they found out something like that would happen, they would consider the missile a mercy killing. Though still possible.

Originally posted by skippytjc
Here ya go haters:




Yes, thats correct, its a picture of Hezbollah and UN flags next to eachother in Lebanon.

UN = The most corrupt and useless oganization on the planet. Now terrorist collaborators.

GO ISRAEL!

That picture proves nothing. Its a flag on a mound in front of the Border taken from the Israeli side. Nice try your buddies try to project something that isn't there in order to make tthemselves look right. Its a mound of dirt and the UN outpost is a building. The flag is probably plced there for the Israelis.

Anti-Israelism is the new anti-semitism. It's okay now to be anti-Israeli because Israel has been "bad." Well, where was all the anger when Hezbollah was shooting rockets at Israel? Why isn't there anger because Hezbollah and Hamas are striking at Israel despite Israel doing everything it agreed to do? Throwing it's own settlers off Gaza strip and West Bank? And withdrawing from occupying Lebanon? As soon as they do, they get trouble. Why? Because the "poor islamics" for some reason are valued more then the Israelis. Adolf Hitler did not invent anti-semitism in Europe, he just took advantage of it. And it has never gone away, as, frankly, many of these posts prove (at least to me).. - It's not the content, it's the timing. Israel is the object of complaint, but Europe never seems to care when Israel is the target of violence, only when they are a participant.

Before you ask, no, I am not Jewish, just military experienced and know Israelis. And if someone is shooting at my children, I remove them. Period. And if UN observers happen to be near the source of the rockets, well, sorry. Israel is doing what needs to be done to protect itself, period. What the rest of the world thinks, be damned. While the rest of the world is ringing it's hands, and the terorist groups are planning on how to use the hand-ringing to it's own benefit, Israel takes care of business. Good for them. And to the few of you using the "boycott Israel" thing, thank you. Now I know how to target my consumer dollar. To buy as many Israeli goods as possible.

Originally posted by The Observer


Before you ask, no, I am not Jewish, just military experienced and know Israelis. And if someone is shooting at my children, I remove them. Period. And if UN observers happen to be near the source of the rockets, well, sorry.

While the rest of the world is ringing it's hands, and the terorist groups are planning on how to use the hand-ringing to it's own benefit, And to the few of you using the "boycott Israel" thing, thank you. Now I know how to target my consumer dollar. To buy as many Israeli goods as possible.

if you are Military experienced as you say, what about the rights of the Palestinians who are innocent and don't strap bombs to themselves? is it also not their purrogative to protect their children or do their children not count? Please you are going off on a parnoid tangent with the hand wringing stuff. The same could be said for Israeli people too if you know them so well you know they are quite elated with this and the chance for their soldiers to go into lebanon and kill some arabs is quite palatable to them so please spare me the sympathy stuff. Either you know what the deal is if you are Military and you see what happens to the palestinians or you are obviously just refusing to see the other side.
Their children are just as worthy of life as any jewish child.
As far as the boycott goes. You go man. Give them whatever you got. Thats your purogative. I wish I could opt to have them take all of my share of taxes from your paycheck rather then mine. They are the ones that always say the Palestinians take their money and buy weapons. All I see from them are Qassams LOL Look at how the Israelis spend all your good hard earned tax dollars, Bombs, tanks, missiles, jets..Go for it man give them whatever you want!!

Originally posted by Thompsonite

Originally posted by darksided

I think it is pretty clear you have no military experience, none, and you have basically put yourself out there as an instant expert, only for the rest of ATS to learn you are just another opinion who really doesn\'t know what the heck you are talking about.

Military experience is not required. All you need here is a little common sense; an area where subz clearly gets the better of you. The U.N workers should have been forced to vacate their post before it was totally destroyed. Bombardments on Hezbollah positions around the post are much more understandable, but a precision guided missile actually on the U.N Post itself? No way. The only time that would be acceptable is if Hezbollah had killed the U.N team and taken control of the compound. Is it now being suggested that Hezbollah had taken control of the U.N post? Apparently U.N officials were in contact with it right up until the bombing, and they made no mention that Hezbollah had taken over.

By your logic, a bad guy can be hiding in the bushes of someone's house, shooting at another house, but the cops can't hit him for fear of damaging the house he's hiding by.

Originally posted by ThePieMaN

if you are Military experienced as you say, what about the rights of the Palestinians who are innocent and don't strap bombs to themselves?

Do you even understand what you just asked, because I sure don't.

You're very good at denial though. The email means nothing. The picture means nothing. Personal experience means nothing. No evidence will ever suffice for you, but that's ok, because then I will always know where you stand.

Now, I haven't read this whole thread yet, but one thing really bugged me from the first few pages....

Why, oh why, do people still insist on referring to the UN as some "other entity", it is made up of member states..Thats right, YOUR country and mine..

Thoe "useless" UN monitors that certain idiots seem to think was a good idea to kill were from these MEMBER countries armed forces. They weren't in the employ of the UN in some magically useless UN army, they were sent by members of the Security council from member states militaries.

They were just doing their job and what they were being told to do, by the member states.

They did not deserve to die and certainly do not deserve to be accused of involvement in the rapes in the Congo (incidentally, these were also troops from member states, namely petty third world ones from Africa) as they weren't even there.

The troops that died here were some Indians and at least one Finn.

If you are so convinced the UN is a pile of crap, may I suggest 2 things. Look at how your own member state behaves within the UN and if your concience is still clear, then suggest something better that we can all agree on.

The only way to give the UN the power you all seem to want it to have is to do the one thing you all don't want to happen. Make up your minds, you can't have everything.

[edit on 27/7/06 by stumason]

I don't recall anyone saying the UN needed more power. It has never exercised the power that it has, except to further its own corruption. You are right about the actual personel on the ground, and it infuriates me that soveriegn govts allow its soldiers to be commanded by such an organization. One US soldier who refused to serve under a UN flag, because he enlisted to serve the US, was courts martialed. That is in-sane. My recommendation is to dismantle the monolithic, corrupt thing. I mean really; How can you have the Congo, China, and Sudan on the Commission on Human Rights? For the love of Pete! Is it so they can counsel the rest of the commission on what not to do? So tear it down. The only reason I don't advocate the US leaving on its own is because I love our veto. *kiss, kiss, kiss*.

Originally posted by hogtie
I don't recall anyone saying the UN needed more power. It has never exercised the power that it has, except to further its own corruption. You are right about the actual personel on the ground, and it infuriates me that soveriegn govts allow its soldiers to be commanded by such an organization. One US soldier who refused to serve under a UN flag, because he enlisted to serve the US, was courts martialed. That is in-sane. My recommendation is to dismantle the monolithic, corrupt thing. I mean really; How can you have the Congo, China, and Sudan on the Commission on Human Rights? For the love of Pete! Is it so they can counsel the rest of the commission on what not to do? So tear it down. The only reason I don't advocate the US leaving on its own is because I love our veto. *kiss, kiss, kiss*.

The UN saved our species in the past. It gave a voice for discussion between rivals. Now that there's only 1 superpower it's useless, a bane to the U.., er the planet?

As to the bold? This is expected from certain country(s?).

As to this issue. I've seen the pictures. Hez set up a base 10 feet from the UN post? The post was HUGE. Beats the land that I own. 10 feet are infantisimal. It was hit on purpose. WHY? The Israeli military doesn't want the UN to see what it's doing? Hmm.

Originally posted by intrepid

The UN saved our species in the past. It gave a voice for discussion between rivals. Now that there's only 1 superpower it's useless, a bane to the U.., er the planet?

Yep. That's about the size of it. Except the US never needed the UN. Neither did NATO. Oh, and when you say "only superpower" I assume you mean China.

The Israeli military doesn't want the UN to see what it's doing? Hmm.

Why? What's the UN going to do? Sanction them? Issue a resolution? Which is worse? Besides, why do they need the UN to report to the world what is going on when Hez can just videotape it themselves and transmit over Al Jezera (sp?)? It works for false propiganda and beheadings, why not this? Could it be that they don't want to show videos of themselves smothering neutral parties and civilians for protection?

Originally posted by hogtie

Originally posted by intrepid

The UN saved our species in the past. It gave a voice for discussion between rivals. Now that there's only 1 superpower it's useless, a bane to the U.., er the planet?

Yep. That's about the size of it. Except the US never needed the UN. Neither did NATO. Oh, and when you say "only superpower" I assume you mean China.

Obfuscation is not very becoming to thinking people.

The Israeli military doesn't want the UN to see what it's doing? Hmm.

Why? What's the UN going to do? Sanction them? Issue a resolution? Which is worse? Besides, why do they need the UN to report to the world what is going on when Hez can just videotape it themselves and transmit over Al Jezera (sp?)? It works for false propiganda and beheadings, why not this? Could it be that they don't want to show videos of themselves smothering neutral parties and civilians for protection?

To the bold I think you've got the extremist parties mixed up here. But if you want to continue to paint ALL opponents with the same brush so that you can sleep OK. The rest of us that think will just move on.

Your last sentance does have some merit though. Too bad it was trashed by the previous ignorance.

Originally posted by intrepid

Obfuscation is not very becoming to thinking people.

I'm not very becoming at all. But don't aim that gun only at me. Obfuscation has been quite rampant on this thread, and not by the pro-Israeli side which seems to keep coming up with more and more links to sources.

To the bold I think you've got the extremist parties mixed up here. But if you want to continue to paint ALL opponents with the same brush so that you can sleep OK. The rest of us that think will just move on.

I was speaking to what was shown on Al Jazera, not what Hez does. Just pointing out that it is a succsesful tool in the ME. I will say that I can have more than one enemy, understand their differences, yet put them in the same bag in the end.

This thread has become so hilarious that I am very sad to hear the way people are allowing to let the propaganda get in their way to understand the issue in the middle east.

US backs Israel butt, so the thinking gets confuse and we have to support what our government wants regardless of who is wrong and who is right.

Because UN oppose to the way US has done business when it comes to occupying countries after 9/11 then UN is the enemy.

Anybody that talks bad about Israel is either a terrorist, hezbollah and hamas sympathizer.

Anybody that talks bad about US in Iraq is a terrorist al-qaida sympathizer.

So UN personnel dies and guess what? is their fault, hezbollah fault, Hamas fault and even Al-qaida fault.

Oh, I forgot is also North Korea's, Iran and Syria fault.

People you need to get a grip of your senses and start listening to common sense and not the well paid propagada.

Israel killed the UN people nobody else and to the reason as why I guess that is what is worth speculating.