Conspiracy within the O.T.O.

I'm starting a new thread on this subject. :-)

Here is Masonic Light's post from this thread

Originally posted by Masonic Light
I just ran across an interesting article that shows there may indeed be a conspiracy within the O.T.O.

No, no, this one doesn't have anything to do with sacrificing babies or kidnapping and torturing Gaiaguys for kicks. Instead, Bishop T. Allen Greenfield, a long time high degree member of O.T.O., and Prelate of the O.T.O.'s Gnostic Catholic Church, has resigned his managerial duties in O.T.O., and has called upon all high ranking O.T.O. officers to do the same. He has, in effect, cast a vote of no confidence in everyone connected to O.T.O. leadership.

Greenfield's Essay

In essence, Greenfield accuses the O.T.O. leaders of power tripping, and basically, conspiring to use O.T.O. for personal gain. I'd be interested in hearing the opinions of our forum members, especially Thelemites and occultists, concerning Greenfield's charges.

[edit on 25-7-2006 by Masonic Light]

Really many of the issues T.Allen Greenfield brought up are nothing new in O.T.O. land. What is really important abut his statements is the fact he made them. For the most part publicly the higher ranking members have been silent on many of the matters he brought up, while the Man of Earth, and Lovers triads have been talking about them for quite some time.

What many of these issues revolve around is what's called the Blue Equinox model. (The Blue Equinox is a book that includes many documents about how the O.T.O. should be run, and it's goals.) And how long it's taking to implement the ideas contained in the Blue Equinox.

For an example of what some members are thinking you might want to listen to the Thelema Coast to Coast podcast hosted by John Crow. He is the one on the right in the picture on T.A.G.'s site (BTW: the document they are holding is pretty interesting. It's the Charter that Crowley gave Gerald Gardner to operate a O.T.O. Lodge... Gardner was the founder of modern Wicca) Anyway if you listen to his talks with Keith418 they cover many of the things TAG mentioned on his site. But remember this is only one side of the story.. to hear both sides of it your gona have to dive into the various Thelemic/O.T.O. forums.

As for what I personally think... Well it's a good and bad thing. The good is that the O.T.O. members are not some type of brainwashed cult followers doing whatever the bigwigs want. It's also good that these issues are being discussed by both sides. The bad, well many of the complaners are correct in saying the O.T.O. is not doing all it could. But in some cases I think they would be better off doing something about it rather that just bitching about it.

Originally posted by Trinityman
Its disappointing that Greenfield is directing people to his book (details of purchase available from the aforementioned link) as this opens him up to accusations of profiteering.

Well he did post quite a bit on his site about the issues (it's about 5 unformated pages in my wordprocessor) and don't forget the page really is meant for insiders who already know the meat of the issues.

[edit on 7/26/2006 by Cug]

It's my natural cynicism I'm afraid - as soon as I see a book for sale it turns me off. If writing a book really is the best way to get information out into the public domain then give all the profits to charity. Too many people have used false sensationalism as a marketing tool (we've seen amateur attempts here on this site too!) for this kind of thing to be taken at face value anymore.

Anyway - this isn't an attempt to hijack the thread. I'm done

Cug, thanks for your comments. Do you know of any other members who have responded to Greenfield, or if any such writing is available online?

It is an inevitable process, all secret societies will diminuish in importance through the process of dilution.
I shouldn't be surprised if the diaspora continues.
Never mind "solve et coagula", it is now "deconstruct and analyse" and start a new society/lodge/group.
Everything is being sacrificed to the altar of either vanity or financial gains.
Nobility of spirit and embarassment which were the glue that kept things in place no longer exist, people now shout to the four winds that they are Satanists/Wiccans etc.etc..and that their secret is bigger and better than everybody else's.

There is no more lust for life, there is only lust for secrets.
Self aggrandisement has taken the place of gravitas.
Brothers? bicker and gossip,cannot keep a secret anymore.

Women are the new men.

Ersatz

Signature:
Shee-boom, shee-boom, Life could be a dream, sweetheart!

Originally posted by Masonic Light
Cug, thanks for your comments. Do you know of any other members who have responded to Greenfield, or if any such writing is available online?

Honestly I haven't seen anything that goes too deep into it. For the most part it was posts like "check out what TAG said/did" or "See I told you so" types of things.

I'm sure there was more discussion in places I don't have access to.

Originally posted by Ersatz
It is an inevitable process, all secret societies will diminuish in importance through the process of dilution.
I shouldn't be surprised if the diaspora continues.
Never mind "solve et coagula", it is now "deconstruct and analyse" and start a new society/lodge/group.
Everything is being sacrificed to the altar of either vanity or financial gains.
Nobility of spirit and embarassment which were the glue that kept things in place no longer exist, people now shout to the four winds that they are Satanists/Wiccans etc.etc..and that their secret is bigger and better than everybody else's.

There is no more lust for life, there is only lust for secrets.
Self aggrandisement has taken the place of gravitas.
Brothers? bicker and gossip,cannot keep a secret anymore.

Women are the new men.

Ersatz

Signature:
Shee-boom, shee-boom, Life could be a dream, sweetheart!

Thats a good point Ersatz, I think one thing that might be hurting secret societys is the ease of communication we have today and lack of need to travel to a distant town and identify someone by modes of recognition. If your supposed to meet someone now you can just call them and know what they look like before you see them as opposed to the old days when there were no photos. In other words technology does instantaneously what it would have taken months to do a hundred years ago. The other one is time, so many people are working two jobs today just to keep their eyballs above the water. the third thing that's hurting them is, its extremely difficult to know exactly what they do. They want you to comitt to something you have no clue what your getting into. If there are any good deals its difficult to believe because of sting operations and blackmail. In the old days before electronic communication it had to be by word of mouth by someone they knew and trusted.

Originally posted by Burnt Offering
[ I think one thing that might be hurting secret societys is the ease of communication we have today and lack of need to travel to a distant town and identify someone by modes of recognition. If your supposed to meet someone now you can just call them and know what they look like before you see them as opposed to the old days when there were no photos.

You totally lost me there, How does that hurt groups like the O.T.O.?

The other one is time, so many people are working two jobs today just to keep their eyballs above the water.

Very true.

the third thing that's hurting them is, its extremely difficult to know exactly what they do. They want you to comitt to something you have no clue what your getting into.

Really that's kinda silly. An evening with google and you can find out what they "do".

Ah yes but none of us really believe what we read on the internet do we? I take everything I read with a grain of salt maan so I can get it down.

Just bumping an old thread

If you wish to find out more about this issue within the OTO here are a few podcasts that T. Allen Greenfield was interviewed.

Thelema Coast-to-Coast #1 April 24,2005
www.thelemacoasttocoast.com...

Thelema Coast to Coast #2 April 30, 2005
www.thelemacoasttocoast.com...

Thelema Coast to Coast # 20 February 12, 2006
www.thelemacoasttocoast.com...


Thelema Coast to Coast #22 March 12, 2006
www.thelemacoasttocoast.com...

The Paracast
theparacast.com...

Le Hermitage Podcast #5
www.blogtalkradio.com...


For all the anti folks does this sound like a group that is capable of even half the things that are claimed?