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Why all the fuss about Masons?

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posted on Dec, 18 2006 @ 02:32 PM
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Originally posted by Andy Warhol
Sorry my bad. I forgot to put the link up thanks. I'am just curious. I have seen a few pictures inside a masonic lodge. It just looks like it's a religion. Can anyone answer the question though. You guys say it's not a religion. But it looks like it to me. Hey I could be wrong. And if I'am I will say so. I will go back and edit and put the link in the post.


Masonry is not a religion because its members are not united by common religious belief, doctrine, and theology. In other words, some Masons are Christians, some are Jews. These two disagree on many tenets of theology, and therefore do not belong to the same religion. They can, however, belong to the same fraternity.




posted on Dec, 18 2006 @ 02:51 PM
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I guess I just don't understand. The lodge has a priest right? W.M. would be considered the priest. The Temple like a church has it's own religious cerimonies(SP?). The rituals would be a cerimonie. right? You indeed do pray but not to the same entity. G.A.O.T.U. Granted it's not the same deity but someones god none the less. Their is indeed an alter. Which is seen in almost every religion. The alter of the lodge has many different holy books on it. I just don't get how it can't be a religion. In the entered apprentice you indeed use the word God. Right? Just because each worships a different god doesn't mean it's not a religion. Right? You must kneel before the W.M. as being innitiated into the faternity.



posted on Dec, 18 2006 @ 03:19 PM
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Originally posted by Andy Warhol
I just don't get how it can't be a religion.


Andy,

It's relatively simple. A "religion" claims to "save ones soul"

Masonry (a fraternity) has no "path of salvation" It does NOT claim to "save ones soul" or guarantee that one will "go to Heaven" like religions do.

The Knights of Pythias also have an Altar and mention God..as do the Odd Fellows...neither of them are a religion either.

Having ceremonies, an Altar and mentioning God does not make it a religion or save ones soul.

Oh, and the Master is not a "Priest" nor does he represent one.


Cug

posted on Dec, 18 2006 @ 03:24 PM
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Originally posted by Andy Warhol
I guess I just don't understand. The lodge has a priest right? W.M. would be considered the priest.


Why would the head of a lodge be a priest?


The Temple like a church has it's own religious cerimonies(SP?). The rituals would be a ceremony. right?


Yes the rituals would be a ceremony, but ceremonies does not equal religious ceremonies.


You indeed do pray but not to the same entity. G.A.O.T.U. Granted it's not the same deity but someones god none the less.


There is a prayer said at my city hall meetings.. but that does not mean my city is a religion.



I just don't get how it can't be a religion.


Well that's not the Masons fault
By the definition you are giving one could say that groups like the Boy Scouts and Alcoholics Anonymous are religions.



posted on Dec, 18 2006 @ 03:39 PM
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Originally posted by Andy Warhol
I guess I just don't understand. The lodge has a priest right? W.M. would be considered the priest.


The Worshipful Master is not considered a priest. He is considered the presiding officer of a club.


The Temple like a church has it's own religious cerimonies(SP?). The rituals would be a cerimonie. right?


Ceremonies, yes. Religious ceremonies, no.


You indeed do pray but not to the same entity. G.A.O.T.U. Granted it's not the same deity but someones god none the less.


This is no different than in Boy Scouts, where meetings are opened and closed in prayer, but boys from all religions are welcomed.


Their is indeed an alter. Which is seen in almost every religion. The alter of the lodge has many different holy books on it.


It only has one, along with the square and a compass.


I just don't get how it can't be a religion.


I just don't get how it could be.


In the entered apprentice you indeed use the word God. Right?


Yes. We also say "God" when we reat the Pledge of Allegiance, but saying the Pledge is not a religion.


Just because each worships a different god doesn't mean it's not a religion. Right?


No. Obviously, if people worship different gods, they do not belong to the same religion. Regardless, worship does not take place in a Lodge.


You must kneel before the W.M. as being innitiated into the faternity.


No one kneels before the Worshipful Master.



posted on Dec, 18 2006 @ 04:05 PM
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Isn't the stuff in the Entered Apprentice Degree consider a form of salvation? When the Senior Warden say something like,"Heavens, were all good masons hope to arrive at last."

Or the master mason degree when the Senior Warden says," And die in the hope of a glorious immortality."

The Hiram Abiff,"Save them with an everlasting salvation."

At the close of the Legend of the Third degree.to translate us from this imperfect to that all-perfect, glorious, and celestial Lodge above, where the Supreme Architect of the Universe presides.

Is this considered a form of salvation? I got these from Jimm Marrs Book. Rule by Secrecy. If these aren't salvation sayings. Can someone tell me what they mean? Thanks in advance



posted on Dec, 18 2006 @ 07:16 PM
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Originally posted by Andy Warhol
Isn't the stuff in the Entered Apprentice Degree consider a form of salvation? When the Senior Warden say something like,"Heavens, were all good masons hope to arrive at last."


"Hope" not "Guarantee" Most of us DO "hope" to arrive in Heaven...at least those of us who BELIEVE in it.



Or the master mason degree when the Senior Warden says," And die in the hope of a glorious immortality."


Again, read what you posted. "HOPE" NOT "guarantee" Masonry doesn't say "You are saved! You're going to Heaven!" NEVER does Masonry say that. It can't. It's not a religion.



The Hiram Abiff,"Save them with an everlasting salvation."


Uhm-hmm. And I pray for the salvation of the souls of several good friends and family members of mine DAILY. That does not mean they're "saved" (if you believe in that sort of "conversion experience" as many fundamentalists and protestants do) It just means that I'm praying for their souls. No guarantee that they're going to Heaven...nor does Masonry guarantee such a thing. . . EVER.



At the close of the Legend of the Third degree.to translate us from this imperfect to that all-perfect, glorious, and celestial Lodge above, where the Supreme Architect of the Universe presides.
Is this considered a form of salvation?


Not that I've ever seen. Again we "hope" for it, but Masonry doesn't grant it.



I got these from Jimm Marrs Book. Rule by Secrecy. If these aren't salvation sayings. Can someone tell me what they mean? Thanks in advance


Andy, Jimm Marrs' publications aren't the only source of info out there. There are TONS of legitimate (and very open) Masonic sources available to anyone who's genuinely interested. I'll be glad to suggest some to you if you'd like to U2U me. I've been in this fraternity (and VERY active) for many years. I'm always glad to share with those who have a sincere desire for understanding.



posted on Dec, 18 2006 @ 07:57 PM
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Not to sound petty but anti masons cling to the "Masonry is a religion" thing because without it their whole paranoid fantasy crumbles into dust.
Think about how much of their hate philosophy is based on that lie.
Without us being a religion, we are just like the Elks, Moose, Rotary, Jaycees, Lions etc....not much to attack there....not many followers...not many books to sell.

Bigots need 2 things to survive: Something to hate and something to join...the details are unimportant.


[edit on 18-12-2006 by RWPBR]



posted on Dec, 19 2006 @ 01:42 PM
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When you guys do pray in the lodge. What are you praying too. I'am sure that someone here can answer this. You guys have alters, holy books, cerimonies, and prayer. All the things that make up religion. You even pray to something called the G.A.O.T.U. which represents a deity. I have said this so many times I'am not anti-mason just trying to ask questions. Understand the faternity a little better. I have not been disrepectful to any masons on this board. I have not called anyone any names. I enjoy talking with you. This is great. So please don't say I'am anti-mason. It makes for better conversation. Thanks much! Now back to our topic and my questions.



posted on Dec, 19 2006 @ 02:47 PM
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Originally posted by Andy Warhol
When you guys do pray in the lodge. What are you praying too. I'am sure that someone here can answer this.


Andy,

As a Christian, I pray to the Trinitarian God (the Father, Son and Holy Spirit) That's who my mind is focusing on when we pray in Lodge.

Incidentally there is a prayer at the opening ceremony and one at the closing ceremony (like there is in many organizations) In between there's often a VERY boring business meeting. Pay the bills, raise money to repair the roof, donate to a charity, give a scholarship, be in the Thanksgiving Day Parade, etc. etc. So it's not ALL initiation and ceremony.



You guys have alters, holy books, cerimonies, and prayer. All the things that make up religion.


Not "all" the things. We're missing that "plan of salvation" necessary to being a religion mentioned above.




You even pray to something called the G.A.O.T.U.


Symbolically we're "builders" so the "Great Architect of the Universe" (GAOTU) is a natural way to express a Deity that men of ANY faith can accept without crossing sectarian lines. Some of the old Railroad societies (I *believe* it was the Brotherhood of Railroad Conductors) had a prayer directed to "The Great Conductor of Mankind" utilizing railroad terminology.



I have said this so many times I'am not anti-mason just trying to ask questions. Understand the faternity a little better. I have not been disrepectful to any masons on this board. I have not called anyone any names. I enjoy talking with you. This is great. So please don't say I'am anti-mason. It makes for better conversation.


Your posts are actually quite refreshing. Many here who do not understand Freemasonry also do not WANT to understand it. They'd rather assume the anti-Masons are right and call us devil-worshipers, the Anti-Christ, etc. Glad to answer anything I can for you. If they're not conspiracy related, send me a U2U and I'll give you my e-mail address and answer whatever I can.



posted on Dec, 19 2006 @ 02:47 PM
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Originally posted by Andy Warhol
When you guys do pray in the lodge. What are you praying too. I'am sure that someone here can answer this. You guys have alters, holy books, cerimonies, and prayer. All the things that make up religion. You even pray to something called the G.A.O.T.U. which represents a deity. I have said this so many times I'am not anti-mason just trying to ask questions. Understand the faternity a little better. I have not been disrepectful to any masons on this board. I have not called anyone any names. I enjoy talking with you. This is great. So please don't say I'am anti-mason. It makes for better conversation. Thanks much! Now back to our topic and my questions.


I pray to the same God in my lodge as I do in church on Sunday Morning, The God of Abraham. I have prayed before football games and NASCAR races, are they religions ? My local Chamber of Commerce opens with a prayer. I also prayed in Public Schools when I was a child.

GAOTU is an abbreviation for Grand Architect Of The Universe...this term appears in many Jewish Prayer books. We have no Holy Books. There is a Bible on the altar. It is the Book of the Law. There is a Bible in every public library in America.

How many time smust we answer these questions ? If you are not going to believe our answers STOP asking the same questions.



posted on Dec, 19 2006 @ 02:50 PM
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This is cool and fun at the same time. I have been reading some of the book The "Knights of the East and West". Interesting to say the least. I will be back later with some more questions. I don't just read the conspricay books I read many others pro-mason and non-promason. It's important to look at all sides of the equation. Ask questions and get some answers.



posted on Dec, 19 2006 @ 03:01 PM
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RWPBR there is no need to get upset. I'am just asking questions that's all. So please if you are getting mad let the others answer. They seem to not be getting upset and are answering the questions great.



posted on Dec, 19 2006 @ 04:48 PM
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Originally posted by Andy Warhol
RWPBR there is no need to get upset. I'am just asking questions that's all. So please if you are getting mad let the others answer. They seem to not be getting upset and are answering the questions great.


I am not angry or upset. Knowing the truth and trying to convince people who are in love with the lie can be frustrating.

Honest questions will always get honest answers from me.



posted on Dec, 19 2006 @ 05:47 PM
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I'am not here to start a fight or anything. All I ask is to get honest answers. Which it seems I'am getting here. And thank all for being so great



posted on Dec, 19 2006 @ 05:47 PM
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I'am not here to start a fight or anything. All I ask is to get honest answers. Which it seems I'am getting here. And thank all for being so great
And



posted on Dec, 19 2006 @ 05:47 PM
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[edit on 19-12-2006 by Andy Warhol]



posted on Dec, 19 2006 @ 05:47 PM
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I'am not here to start a fight or anything. All I ask is to get honest answers. Which it seems I'am getting here. And thank all for being so great
And thank you

[edit on 19-12-2006 by Andy Warhol]



posted on Dec, 19 2006 @ 09:38 PM
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OK, OK.

We got your meaning the first 3 times you posted it!



posted on Dec, 19 2006 @ 09:44 PM
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ok just for a bit of information im new sorry
ahhhh what are masons and illuminate i want to learn about them are they aleins of some sort or something eles ?




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