It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

In a Perfect Universe, any "Free Will" is Satan's Will

page: 1
0
<<   2 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jul, 23 2006 @ 06:51 PM
link   
The Infinitely Great God's Will is immutably Perfect and Holy. Any departure from this by humans, is falling into Satan's trap of "Free Will." Only by humbly requesting from the Infinitely Great God that we always follow His Will can we abstain from sin and become worshipers of His Glory in Heaven.




posted on Jul, 23 2006 @ 11:42 PM
link   
You know, I have always struggled with free-will and destiny, but I think you are not far from the truth. But today, we are still under the curse, so we do have free-will. In a perfect world, no decision could lead to sin, but that isn't the case today is it?



posted on Jul, 24 2006 @ 08:07 AM
link   
Any independant thought is the work of Satan? The perfect universe is one in which all thoughts and ideas conform to one standard? That's the best idea ever! As a matter of fact, I say we get started. Obviously anyone who disagrees is under Satan's influence, therefore their opinions are moot. I say we kill anyone who disagrees. Wait, that may be too harsh. How about camps? Satan Camps?



posted on Jul, 24 2006 @ 09:36 AM
link   
Is the Perfect Universe called Utopia per chance?

God's will Perfect and Holy doesn't seem to work very well on this planet...
although He is alive and well but now working on a less ambitious project.



posted on Jul, 24 2006 @ 02:02 PM
link   
Oh Come On...!

If that would be the case, we can concider ourselves to be slaves without knowing it, consciousness or awareness of the choices we make is something really unique, and we must cherish it as best as possible, every soul takes a different path, and i'm definately sure that all of those paths that arent directly connected with god, will not end up in hell...

Whats the point of living if you get punished for making a mistake? Getting send to hell wont do you much good, mistakes are replaced by more learning!



posted on Jul, 25 2006 @ 03:19 PM
link   
The Universe is imperfect due to humans following "free will" or in a much worst case, Satan's will. God is Perfect and His Will is Perfect. Any will that is not God's Will must be imperfect.

How do we find God's Will? We must increase holiness, piousness, vitruousness, and righteousness in our lives daily to move in that direction.

Has anybody always followed God's Will? The Lord Jesus Christ.



posted on Jul, 25 2006 @ 08:25 PM
link   
I must say this for Christianity, they sure know how to brainwash. Imagine, ingraining the idea that diversity of thaught is a sin, therefore forcing conformity.



^All faithfull followers



posted on Jul, 26 2006 @ 05:02 PM
link   
I might add that Christianity isn't the only religion to do this, but they are biggest, and most successful.



posted on Jul, 26 2006 @ 06:25 PM
link   
"Brainwashing" only occurs only when an elder has much more wisdom than a younger person in life. The elder teaches, inspires, and enlightens the younger person. When the younger person does not feel that way, he or she does have "freedom of thought", at least in the USA, to form new ideas with cohorts and might even create a new religion.

The Freedom of Religion is the Greatest Law that the Founding Fathers of the USA ever created.



posted on Jul, 26 2006 @ 06:33 PM
link   

Originally posted by GreatTech
"Brainwashing" only occurs only when an elder has much more wisdom than a younger person in life. The elder teaches, inspires, and enlightens the younger person. When the younger person does not feel that way, he or she does have "freedom of thought", at least in the USA, to form new ideas with cohorts and might even create a new religion.

The Freedom of Religion is the Greatest Law that the Founding Fathers of the USA ever created.


I have no idea what this has to do with what I posted. Can you please clarify this for me?



posted on Jul, 26 2006 @ 06:38 PM
link   
This is totally crazy.
So, out of curiosity, if "God" excersizes free will, is that the work of "Satan" too?
Don't you people ever give it a rest?




posted on Jul, 26 2006 @ 06:40 PM
link   
I guess Vinson's view is actually irrelevent in our conversation. My view on the other hand, makes a distinct definition between the terms choice and will.

Yes, we have the freedom of choice. As you have said, we are GIVEN choices to MAKE. Choice is an integral part, if not the sole purpose, of life/existance. We, as individuals, are DEFINED by our choices. As individuals, we will answer for each and every choice we make.

Then there is free will. By definition, will is self determination and action independent of external causes. Yes, we determine ourselves by the choices we make. But, to think that it is done independent of "external causes" is illogical. Our choices are made by gathering external information, physical or abstract.

When placed in the context of an omniscient Creator, free (or our) will never existed. The Intelligent Designer crafted everything to give us specific choices to make. Our answers to these "choices" (right or wrong)are His will. We define ourselves with these choices to the questions that He placed for us uniquely designed for each individual. To think that we make choices free from any external variables is to say we exist in a deprivation tank. Yahweh is all. Yahweh is all "external causes".

After the "lake of fire" at the "white throne judgement", all returns to Yahweh. We determine whether it is by our "choice" or His will.

dhc

P.S. ...or something like that...

P.S.S. This was a previous conversation I had with my mom. The "Vinson" that I refer to is one Michael Vinson. Great tech, as well as those who are interested in a good read, try www.iswasandwillbe.com


[edit on 26-7-2006 by BadMojo]

[edit on 26-7-2006 by BadMojo]



posted on Jul, 26 2006 @ 06:58 PM
link   
Rasobasi420, diversity of thought is not a sin in the True Christian Religion. In fact, I believe diversity of thought is encouraged by Christ as I believe Christ will not return to Earth until a True Christian Religion is formed.

The Holy Trinity Bless All!!!



posted on Jul, 26 2006 @ 07:09 PM
link   

Originally posted by GreatTech
The Infinitely Great God's Will is immutably Perfect and Holy. Any departure from this by humans, is falling into Satan's trap of "Free Will." Only by humbly requesting from the Infinitely Great God that we always follow His Will can we abstain from sin and become worshipers of His Glory in Heaven.


How can an infinite and immutable entity or being like this "God" you describe have any kind of will at all? Doesn't will require intention and motivation, something that an infinite and changeless thing would never have or require?

How could an infinite being want something?



posted on Jul, 26 2006 @ 07:29 PM
link   
Enkidu, do you you believe God is a machine? God has a special sensitivity towards human beings, and the other life (animals and plants) that God created, as humans are suppose to exercise careful dominion over this other life. After all, humans were created in God's Divine Image.

For whatever reason(s), God gets what He wants, whether its in the realm of human understanding or not.



posted on Jul, 27 2006 @ 07:22 AM
link   
Out of curiousity, have you even considered the possibility that "God" doesn't exist in the form that you have been indoctrinated to believe?
Or is that too far outside the scope of your "realm of possibility"?
Being that the human will is absolute, it is entirely possible that we created "God" in our image.




posted on Jul, 27 2006 @ 10:26 AM
link   

Originally posted by wu kung
Out of curiousity, have you even considered the possibility that "God" doesn't exist in the form that you have been indoctrinated to believe?
Or is that too far outside the scope of your "realm of possibility"?


Obviously a strong believer would say "I dont have to concider any other realities, i just know god exists". Sometimes out of fear, you know, if you dont believe in god you get send straight to hell. Sometimes because its the way how they have been grown up by their folks, you know, bible at the end of dinner, church twice each sunday, you get my drift. Or its just because people have found what they desire and wont let go of it. Sorry if i say this too harshly, but religious persons are often blind to whats outside of their "Belief".

The title of this thread had me grinning for quite a while, let me elaborate. GreatTech speaks of free will as true curse. Why, should the average human be perfect? If that was the case, what would there be to learn for any of us? Isnt free will given as something unique? Something that creates the very essence of our personality! We make the choices according to what we desire, god (If he/her exists, that is) puts us on earth, gives us an assignment to be a good person and some screw it up miserably. Not a strong reason to call free will the work of satan, in my view that is suggesting forced obedience on humans (Or better, your opinion doesnt matter if it stands in the way of Christianity), scaremongering to be precise. I think Tech has to start living with the fact, that at the moment alot of humans are not living according to what god wants, but also that there are a bigger number of people who actually do and dont understand the cruelty of this world as much as the person next door. To me, free will is evolution, awareness, consciousness.

Dont live in this world with a vision of something perfect, live will remain as it is, free will continue to dominate, and its up to people to choose for the good and the bad. God knows that all too well, if his/her intentions were to create a perfect world, God wouldnt had placed the tree in the gardens of Eden!

And, as i always would say, live with what exists.



posted on Jul, 27 2006 @ 10:50 AM
link   
Very well said Mammoth!
The bible-thumpers are so incredibly contradictory.
"God" granted free will, but it's really only the illusion of free will because whatever we "decide" is already predestined, however, true free will is the work of "Satan".
I miss the days of the old world before the Christians/Catholics, back when civilization meant something.
What about Buddhism?
That's been around for thousands of years before the days of "Christ"; Buddhism preached peace and looking within for answers instead of saying something is "Gods will" (which translates to: "I take absolutely NO responsibility for any of my own actions").
Or Taoism, which essentially is living in absolute harmony with the entire universe, not just our immediate enviornment.
And that's another thing, Christianity boasts that humans have "dominion" over all other life on the planet.
That, in my opinion, is incredibly arrogant, and ultimately, nihilistic.
How dare anyone elevate themselves above any other creature?!
The other "animals" are in perfect harmony with the world, if anything, WE are the ones throwing the world into dischord.
And don't tell me that the destruction of this world is part of "Gods plan".
If "God" is love, and we are "created in his image", and free will is truly an illusion, then why are we allowed to destroy each other?




posted on Jul, 27 2006 @ 11:07 AM
link   
Ok, wu kung, if you wish to equate yourself with a monkey...to each his/her own. There is no arrogance in dominion; only rulership or ownership. As for staying on topic, I refer to my previous post.

I suppose that you are a HUGE Planet of the Apes fan...:shk:

[edit on 27-7-2006 by BadMojo]



posted on Jul, 27 2006 @ 03:22 PM
link   

Originally posted by BadMojo
Ok, wu kung, if you wish to equate yourself with a monkey...to each his/her own. There is no arrogance in dominion; only rulership or ownership. As for staying on topic, I refer to my previous post.

I suppose that you are a HUGE Planet of the Apes fan...:shk:


I think you missed the point, what he said (close to it) that it is wrong to elevate one form of life above the other.



new topics

top topics



 
0
<<   2 >>

log in

join