There are a few people here who have always spread false information like the gospel of Jesus and who are very intelligent, otherwise.

The state Dept. likewise lists subversive websites. LOL

Our govt. wastes more money and manpower than most will ever realize.

its nice the spooks are still at ATS and we are keeping them busy

Keep up the good work guys

Wish I could get paid to be on ATS.
But my views aren't what they'd want to pay for.
I would make them a terrible employee!
Terrible indeed!

From what I've seen, bt, 99.9% of the long term senior members and staff IMO are out of that realm of possibility. Many are friends that know each other personally. The people that really want to be here for education and opinion sharing do so genuinely, and in the interest of discussion for the most part- whether they disagree or not on any given issue.

Just my $.03 worth- (I'm a legal american, so I charge more)

I dunno about being paid but there are websites out there who encourage their kind to actively correct or push to correct websites, forums, newsprint and other media outlets and attempt to push the propaganda into their light.


If anyone knows of an organization that advocates Anti-war in the middle Middle East and pays please let me know!!! Doubtful tho since no one makes a living off of not selling arms and weapons.

There are 3 sides to every story.

Your's

Theirs

And the truth.

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
From what I've seen, bt, 99.9% of the long term senior members and staff IMO are out of that realm of possibility. Many are friends that know each other personally. The people that really want to be here for education and opinion sharing do so genuinely, and in the interest of discussion for the most part- whether they disagree or not on any given issue.

Just my $.03 worth- (I'm a legal american, so I charge more)

I agree with you True American. But, still, the possibiity exists , especially with the size of a site such as ATS, that a paid propagandist would be assigned to "influence" discussions on certain topics. In fact, it would make sense to assign someone to forums with memberships as large as ATS' to "work" here. Heated topics which foster debate can be subverted with disinformation. Especially on topics such as Iran, Lebanon, Israel, etc.

In fact, Israel is good example. Many years ago, the famed Protocols of Zion were printed. It wasn't the least bit true. It wasn't even written by Jews. But people don't know that or they choose to ignore that one salient fact. Yet, many still believe that it is some sort of great Jewish manifesto of global conquest. A clear example of the sort of thing that a good propagandist can do

as fa as "long time" members not being propagandists.....or having friends here (at least on line friends, as opposed to personal friends) it is exactly the sort of thing that they "would" do. We cannot discount the possibilty. But, yes, the vast majority of members are people who want to learn, to be intrigued, to be challenged to think. Incidentally, seeing as how you have all of this money to throw around --- givng three vs two cents -- do you want to hire me to tout your opinions and to sway folks?

Originally posted by benevolent tyrant
Incidentally, seeing as how you have all of this money to throw around --- givng three vs two cents -- do you want to hire me to tout your opinions and to sway folks?

As long as your legal.

IMO, yes, there are a couple posters that come off as either paid lobbiest/propagandists, or just complete psycho-phants (sic), who do nothing but take their marching orders from a particular ideology on a daily basis and attack any thread with talking points of the day that makes said party, or their actions, look foolish. When the actions become indefensible, and those same folks continue to "rally round the flag" it says they are either propagandists, or brainwashed. I have to believe they are the former, as the later would prove the minds in the country have indeed become weak, and I do not want to believe that. We have too many educational and experiential opportunites in this country for brainwashing to be viable.

Originally posted by benevolent tyrant
Keep in mind that a "debate" between a professional vs a "regular joe" is, for the most part, no contest. A skilled debater can make mincemeat out of someone -- no matter how intelligent -- using phrases and prepared arguments and clever statements designed to ridicule or put down someone and/or his beliefs. In doing so, people whose opinions are not established can often be swayed to adopt the "winning" point of view.

I always win, against all opponants, all the time.

A forum dealing with political issues would be a fertile field for such people to work within and, one has to acknowledge, that ATS is certainly a place where such individuals might be assigned.

I always thought that ATS might be a false flag operation, or perhaps just be a place where dis-information opertives might seek to influence certain threads.

[edit on 24-7-2006 by In nothing we trust]

So, what is the impact of paid views here on ATS? I'm sure some people are indeed paid, I'm also sure that parts of the Government do monitor the site (as well as non-Government "actors"). So what is the end impact on ATS? Has anyone gone out and bought a Boeing fighter aircraft? Has everyone decided that the 9-11 attacks were an attack sanctioned and perhaps planned by the US Government? Have we all signed up to get into Area 51? Have we decided the invasion of Iraq was a fantastic idea?

The end result, as I see it, is that it really changes nothing here. I get more annoyed by bad grammar, bad spelling and lack of cohesive thought than the idea that someone is paid to express an opinion here. Because if I don't agree with the opinion, I will say so.

Like the ads at the top and side of my screen, I know they are there. I just don't click them. And so goes ATS.

I believe the main goal is to effect the views of the fence sitters who haven't made their mind up yet. Make the official 9-11 story de-bunkers, for example, look stupid to pursuade the fence sitters to not believe them or get involved.

Also to keep us going around in circles arguing over irellivant points, buying time, the longer nothing is done the more likely the gov will get away with it.

I want to thank everyone who has participated in this conversation for being civil AND smart... Some of you have a nice U2U from me in your in box.

Are there paid operatives of various lobbying and political groups here? Hell yes! The BEST part is BOTH sides of nearly every "lobbying/political issue" are represented so we LOVE IT. We still get BOTH SIDES of every issue.

Imagine being the manager of an outfit like that and finding out your opponent was posting like mad on a site as big as ATS and your guys weren't. What would you do? You'd assign an employee to make certain your group's perspective was represented so you did not fall behind.

It's pretty obvious who these folks are, sometimes, but as some have mentioned in this thread, many IMHO, appear to take the "opposition's" side and make themselves look like slobbering idiots, reverse psychology is NOT dead.

As long as both sides are hammering it out we, you and me, get the all the info no matter how "spun" it may be to consider. This is always a good thing.

Springer...

But again, I come back to the idea that if your point of view or opinion is sufficiently robust in argument and content, then the paid opinion will still struggle for credibility, no matter how eloquently they state their case. And if they can provide evidence that is sufficient to counter my posts, then the outcome is probably fair in that ignorance has been denied. It simply behoves us all to apply sound research and communication when posting here on ATS.

As for topics going around in circles, I'm not entirely sure this needs the help of paid members...

Edit: lol too quick for me Springer. And much better said.

[edit on 24-7-2006 by Willard856]

Oh no...they got me...I mean....err... *quickly dials the unofficial number for the CIA* ABORT.....ABORT THE MISSION....THEY HAVE DISCOVERED US......

Ahem....*Looks around in hope nobody heard him, and quickly hides*

[edit on 24-7-2006 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Willard856
So, what is the impact of paid views here on ATS? I'm sure some people are indeed paid, I'm also sure that parts of the Government do monitor the site (as well as non-Government "actors"). So what is the end impact on ATS? Has anyone gone out and bought a Boeing fighter aircraft? Has everyone decided that the 9-11 attacks were an attack sanctioned and perhaps planned by the US Government? Have we all signed up to get into Area 51? Have we decided the invasion of Iraq was a fantastic idea?

The end result, as I see it, is that it really changes nothing here. I get more annoyed by bad grammar, bad spelling and lack of cohesive thought than the idea that someone is paid to express an opinion here. Because if I don't agree with the opinion, I will say so.

Like the ads at the top and side of my screen, I know they are there. I just don't click them. And so goes ATS.

Like the ads at ATS...YOU might not click them....but some people DO just that. Some people CAN be swayed. Not everyone, of course, but some people are swayed. Be it business, politics or war, the goal is to win minds, to win approval, to win votes.

A paid propagandist, lurking at a site like ATS, might not sway everyone but that wouldn't necessarily be possible. What is possible, however is to sway a few minds. Those people, in turn, start telling others about their "new found" beliefs and, possibly, they sway a few more minds. And so it goes.

Remember, the "average joe" here at ATS is here to share their opinions and to read the opinions of others. Sometimes, if a point is made well enough, the philosophy that an "average joe" might hold could be swayed and that is, in itself, a victory for the propagandist. It's called disinformation and often, by blurring the truth, by phrasing things in a certain manner, by presenting arguments which, on the surface might seem plausible, hearts and minds can be won.

This is a tactic that has been used before in many different arenas; corporate, political and even militarily.

I wonder if I could get paid not to post on ATS? I'd do a lot of shutting up if the price was right.

Originally posted by ANOK
I believe the main goal is to effect the views of the fence sitters who haven't made their mind up yet. Make the official 9-11 story de-bunkers, for example, look stupid to pursuade the fence sitters to not believe them or get involved.

Also to keep us going around in circles arguing over irellivant points, buying time, the longer nothing is done the more likely the gov will get away with it.

This is exactly what I've witnessed in here from a few posters and will always voice strongly against. But I'd like to put a question to those that would not name names and please try not to take offense.

We come here in search of truth, yes? We come here seeking that answer that may lie somewhere in another's insight. A plausible answer that is hidden from us behind steel walls of corruption, disinformation, or simple lack of exposure. We pull from the many minds that hold membership here to help us sort through the smoke and mirrors. So please tell me that we have not all become so passive that we allow an idea to perpetuate by someone "working the other side" to shape the status quo? The false written word, if repeated enough, cleverly crafted, and left unchallenged, will become fact for some. And some of the younger minds may not see through a post meant to disinform further. So should we sit idle, those of us that have seen the "stench of the past", the tricks of the trade, and not raise a red flag?

I fully agree that civility is usually the best approach. But when critical thought is being held hostage by a veiled proponent of truth running in circles to cloud a valid idea or suspicion...I will rip off the mask any way possible to stop that which goes against the search for truth. Call me what you will...but here you have a huge resource of individuals that can help shape the future for the better, through good sense and analytical thought. So why allow a negative outside influence to hinder that? Civility to a fault is not always a good thing.

BT, I gave you a WATS for bringing this up, I agree that there are debunkers on government payroll on this site, I would even wager some of the ones inside ATS might be involved and are on the government payroll, I am not pointing any fingers, I understand that alot of these people are close friends...but I do believe not everyone is as honest as the three amigos...

Dunno if anyone noticed during the last Presidential elections but it was quite obvious that certain Christian groups were sending out people deliberately to post messages on Forums such as this. You could usually tell by Googling the first few words of the paragraph and seeing the same copy and paste on each forum. Usually it was in the hundreds for each message posted.
In one of my older threads about UFO's I had posted a link to my site. I had noticed quite a jump in individual unique hits coming directly from this site to the tune of about 1000 unique hits in one day alone. Imagine spread out over 10-20 boards its quite a message. Kinda like those viral Ads that don't look or act like regular TV ads.

Pie