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US Torture Widespread in Iraq

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posted on Jul, 23 2006 @ 11:34 AM
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New York Times

Iraqi detainees were routinely subjected to beatings, sleep deprivation, stress positions and other forms of abuse by U.S. interrogators, according to a Human Rights Watch report released on Sunday that offers first-hand accounts from three former soldiers.

"These accounts rebut U.S. government claims that torture and abuse in Iraq was unauthorized and exceptional -- on the contrary, it was condoned and commonly used," said John Sifton, author of the report and the group's senior researcher on terrorism and counter-terrorism.

The United States has faced international criticism for the indefinite detention of detainees at a naval base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, and for physical abuse and sexual humiliation of prisoners at Abu Ghraib.

The Bush administration, however, says it treats prisoners humanely. The Pentagon acknowledged earlier this month that all detainees held by the U.S. military are covered by an article of the Geneva Conventions that bars inhumane treatment.

But Human Rights Watch said the U.S. government's insistence that abusive practices were not authorized or routine and the military's failure to put any blame on leadership have hindered probes into detainee treatment.


U.S.: Soldiers Tell of Detainee Abuse in Iraq

Abusive Techniques Were Authorized, Soldiers’ Complaints Ignored

Torture and other abuses against detainees in U.S. custody in Iraq were authorized and routine, even after the 2004 Abu Ghraib scandal, according to new accounts from soldiers in a Human Rights Watch report released today. The new report, containing first-hand accounts by U.S. military personnel interviewed by Human Rights Watch, details detainee abuses at an off-limits facility at Baghdad airport and at other detention centers throughout Iraq.

“Soldiers were told that the Geneva Conventions did not apply, and that interrogators could use abusive techniques to get detainees to talk,” said John Sifton, the author of the report and the senior researcher on terrorism and counterterrorism at Human Rights Watch. “These accounts rebut U.S. government claims that torture and abuse in Iraq was unauthorized and exceptional – on the contrary, it was condoned and commonly used.”

Well I am happy to know, that US goverment playes by the Rules, which they Represent.

NOT!

Apparently the story about Torture and Abuse in US Gulag Archipelagos goes further - they are not cases of isolated incidents, but actually Authorized Orders coming from the very top of the chain of command.

Abusive Techniques Were Authorized!

And Soldiers' complaints about it Ignored.

Yep - this is how Democracy works.




posted on Jul, 23 2006 @ 11:44 AM
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Iraqi detainees were routinely subjected to beatings, sleep deprivation, stress positions


Okay? It was no secret that they did this. I heard people talking about sleep deprivation being used and being exposed to extreme temperatures like when they first went into Afghanistan.

If the people are killed, permanently injured, etc. Then that is a cause of concern. But when you are getting answers out of people you can't just have a tea party to get them to talk. Why don't you quote Russia's tactics or China's? Nevermind theirs doesn't matter.



posted on Jul, 23 2006 @ 11:44 AM
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Once again the story we here is but the tip of the iceburg.

When the story of Abu Grahib first came out I knew even then that our govt. was making the decisions to torture detainees. But of course it was a hunch that I could not proove.

Our govt. has become so hypocritical and corrupted that there is no limit at this point to what they will do to acheive their dispicable goals. It tears me up inside that I have to think this way. I love this country with all my heart... I just Loath the criminal sons of bisquits that are destroying it.

We have lost the war on terror before we ever started fighting it...why? because of occurances just like this! We have compromised our Ideology in a war of Ideology...kinda stupid isnt it?



posted on Jul, 23 2006 @ 11:47 AM
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original quote by: RetinoidReceptor
If the people are killed, permanently injured, etc. Then that is a cause of concern. But when you are getting answers out of people you can't just have a tea party to get them to talk. Why don't you quote Russia's tactics or China's? Nevermind theirs doesn't matter.


except that it has already been proven that "torture" does NOT yield better answers from the detainees. If I were being tortured I would tell them anything(hell Id make a few things up) just to get them to stop...think about it.



posted on Jul, 23 2006 @ 11:55 AM
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Originally posted by TONE23

original quote by: RetinoidReceptor
If the people are killed, permanently injured, etc. Then that is a cause of concern. But when you are getting answers out of people you can't just have a tea party to get them to talk. Why don't you quote Russia's tactics or China's? Nevermind theirs doesn't matter.


except that it has already been proven that "torture" does NOT yield better answers from the detainees. If I were being tortured I would tell them anything(hell Id make a few things up) just to get them to stop...think about it.


And what tactics exactly do work? Especially when they are dedicated to their religion and won't help the "Great Satan"? What do you say..."Hey you really should tell us stuff." What if the person does know something, and is rude, and wishes death on America, and won't say anything. Sleep deprivation is evil to use? I disagree with the whole thing [war on terror], but I don't disagree with using some of these torture methods. They should use these things on gang members and stuff as well to save people's lives.

Your right, if they were burning people, hanging them, chopping off their fingers, then I would say hell no. But these methods? I mean, please...



posted on Jul, 23 2006 @ 12:00 PM
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My point is , I guess is, that the information that you are going to get is not necc. reliable.. I guess that was my point.

*edit-Addition- The probalem here also is the disregarding of the Geneva convention. Which bush singed a Presidential signing statement the day after John McCain's anti-torture bill was set up.

see the story here: Bush could Bypass torture ban

that is the heart of the issue here. The Circumvention of the Geneva convention. Sure the "terrorists" do not adhere to the GC. But are we to lower ourselves to their level of barbaric behavior? Absolutely not!


[edit on 23-7-2006 by TONE23]



posted on Jul, 23 2006 @ 12:47 PM
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Nice to see that HRW's propganda machine is still working as usual spreading their same lies over and over.


I checked two of their links just to confirm what I thought and they are still denying that the IRC has visited the camps yet the Red Cross and others insist they have visited them. In fact even the author of the thread pointed out one of their visits after the 3 suicides at GITMO so that could not have been a lie could it.



posted on Jul, 23 2006 @ 01:30 PM
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Originally posted by shots
Nice to see that HRW's propganda machine is still working as usual spreading their same lies over and over.


I checked two of their links just to confirm what I thought and they are still denying that the IRC has visited the camps yet the Red Cross and others insist they have visited them. In fact even the author of the thread pointed out one of their visits after the 3 suicides at GITMO so that could not have been a lie could it.


Oh it is absolutely possible that this info is not accurate... but regardless.. you still have GWB's signing statement. To me, that is the "smoking gun" in this situation.



posted on Jul, 23 2006 @ 02:00 PM
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that is the heart of the issue here. The Circumvention of the Geneva convention. Sure the "terrorists" do not adhere to the GC. But are we to lower ourselves to their level of barbaric behavior? Absolutely not!


We haven't lowered ourselves yet. Once we kidnap people and saw off their heads then we will have lowered ourselves. And yes these methods of torture are against the Geneva Convention. Personally I don't know how the Geneva Convention will ever truly be applied in a case of war.

In anycase the only thing that really pisses me off is that everyone is just concerned about what America is doing, nobody knows what China and Russia does. Russians disregarded the Geneva conventions in Chechnya and so does China, yet neither gets even remotely as much press.



posted on Jul, 23 2006 @ 02:11 PM
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Originally posted by TONE23

Oh it is absolutely possible that this info is not accurate...


Better not tell that to the author of the thread he will kick you off his propaganda team


HRW is nothing but a bunch of fanatics that do not know their heads from their butts.

Last week they insisted the US is treating our normal Prisoners in the same way, although members of the ATS from both Canada and the US that work in prisions explained very good reasons for using some of the methods and also stated they were not cruel and unusual as HRW stated. Nuff said for those wackos at HRW



posted on Jul, 23 2006 @ 03:19 PM
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original quote by: RetinoidReceptor
In anycase the only thing that really pisses me off is that everyone is just concerned about what America is doing, nobody knows what China and Russia does. Russians disregarded the Geneva conventions in Chechnya and so does China, yet neither gets even remotely as much press.


I agree China, and Russia are basically "off the hook" as it were. But you have to remember that they are not the ones who are supposed to be the Champions of freedom and justice.. that title is ours and ours alone. We have a higher standard than both of those countries put together. And thusly anytime we, as a country, are seen to be trangressing these ideals; the hammer(press) comes down swift and hard. does that make sense?



original quote by: shots
Better not tell that to the author of the thread he will kick you off his propaganda team


fortunately, I am on no such team.. nor do I want to be..LOL. I just want truth and justice and honor and etc... you get where I am going. I have heard some horror stories about prisons.. but most of it comes from other inmate problems not really much about the staff.

But still even though we have not resorted to the same types of torture that the "terrorists" like to inflict; we still have a duty to be above all of this. It shouldnt even have to be mentioned.. and Even if it happens just once.. it is once too many. We are caught in the trap of having to hold the "moral" high ground. I know it ties the hands of those trying to fight the WOT, but, thats what the reality of the matter is. I am not saying I know what we should do to try to get information from possible terrorists. But I do know how we should NOT go about it. And compromising our laws and standards is NOT the way IMHO.

thanks for your time



posted on Jul, 23 2006 @ 07:54 PM
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I dunno I think this is media just making a big dela over nothing.
Sleep deprivation, stress positions, even the odd smack or kick.
TORTURE I relate to haneous bodily harm in some way.
Drawing blood, cuts, bones something a little bit more than a black eye.

I my friend was in danger, because some ####head wouldnt tell me where he put that IED,
Id definately go about punching him sensless until he told me.



posted on Jul, 24 2006 @ 05:41 AM
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Apparently for SOME members, anything written and said against their Precious Administration is considered as Propaganada.

Well to those members, I really have nothing more to say, since their own blindness and their own head in the sand, will sooner or later proove to be their own weakness not mine.

The report shown in the original post above has yesterday filled headlines across the world, and apparently the World trust Human Rights Watch MUCH, MUCH more then any spokesman or spokeswoman, or blinded-patriotic-defender of Bush administration.

They have Lied to us several times, and none of the words coming from their mouths can be taken for Truth. I shall not get into the Abyss of their Lies right now, for I have done that several times in the past (click on my name for more information).

The Article by HRW just prooves, that the Torture and Abuse going on in the Archipelago of Gulags, owned by United States goverment, is not a random incident, but a Planned-Systematic and AUTHORIZED from the very Top of the Chain of Command!

I just want to know, if the ones responsible for this Breach of International Law, Geneva Conventions and Human Rights will EVER be in Hague in the Criminal Court, where they Belong; alongside with all the WAR-CRIMINALS there.



posted on Jul, 24 2006 @ 06:04 AM
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This was reported in the European media today aswell

article in dutch
The article states that this rapport was based on statements issued by soldiers and officeres.

This doens't suprize me one bit.

And Souljah, people don't like to hear the truth, it hurts sometimes, and you're right, for some people here, anything that doesn't come from "official govenrment sources" is considered "propaganda" while infact "government statements" are accepted without a shadow fo a doubt, to me that's just absurd.



posted on Jul, 26 2006 @ 07:25 AM
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我服你们这帮美国佬!

Sorry for my very bad english



posted on Jul, 26 2006 @ 09:17 AM
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So this report states they soliders where given direct orders to torture prisoners and there objections where ignored. Ummmm

Hasnt a soilder the right to refuse an illegal order? there have been many case of this, most recently a RAF doctor who refused to go to iraq because he said it was an illgeal war, therefore an illgeal war.

under the genva convention torture is forbidden in any aspect

"Torture is forbidden by the Geneva Conventions, both in cases of internal conflicts (Convention I, Art. 3, Sec. 1A), wounded combatants (Convention I, Art. 12), civilians in occupied territories (Convention IV, Art. 32), civilians in international conflicts (Protocol I, Art. 75, Sec. 2Ai) and civilians in internal conflicts (Protocol II, Art. 4, Sec. 2A). "

The US has said that they were treating the prisoners at gitmo as combatants, and the prisoners at abu griad as combatants as well, so nice to see that the champion of truth and justice and freedom , obeys international law.

Some of the guards from abu griad, tried to use the nuringberg defence, only to have it thrown out, 1) u need the chain of command to reckonised the order, 2) it wasnt accepted the 1st time around, sure as hell wont work the 2nd time around

And to be honset, most of what they did to these people i dont class as torture, just your basic interragation techniques. so when we start with the electro shock treatments, medical experiments, firing squads. chopping of body parts. then they can start shouting bout torture. and if when treated every one with kid gloves, made sure they got enough sleep, where happy, then when the bombs go off in their back yard they are the 1st to moam about where was the intel



posted on Jul, 29 2006 @ 11:56 PM
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posted on Jul, 30 2006 @ 12:07 AM
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Hey Souljah, I got a plan for ya... how about you go out and do a drunk driving and then see how the cops treat you for the night and then tell us what it is like in jail.

Remembering the whole time you had no intention of murdering innocent people.. at least NOT CONSCIOUS intent.

Now compare that to the people that you are trying to make us sorry for... suicide bombers and terrorists.

Frankly, I think the US forces are being very restrained in dealing with heinious people like those.



posted on Aug, 2 2006 @ 01:07 AM
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You all gotta be kidding. ''Terrorist wussies''...''Souljahs of their ilk''....''US soldiers restraining themselves''....yall took too high a dose of CNN and FOX.

Souljah is right on the money. These atrocities are only the ones THEY ARE TELLING US ABOUT. There are so many more that never make the nightly news.

The Elite do this, they write books calling you stupid slaves, and you go supporting their evil policies ''Oh im for the war!'' And actually believe there are terrorists out there who actually pose a threat to you! Ridiculous. The biggest threat to you is your government.

They give you these lies and spoonfeed you, and you intake it and digest it fully, and then attack us people who tell the truth!

Sheeple. Go salute a flag....

Souljah, you da man. We know the truth. Dont be afraid to speak it.

[edit on 2-8-2006 by AscendedMaster]



posted on Aug, 2 2006 @ 01:10 AM
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IRONTYRANT...

I sure hope you werent serious about what you wrote....

[edit on 2-8-2006 by AscendedMaster]



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