what proof is there that 'god' exists?

Originally posted by UbiquitousInfiniteReality

How did that evolutionary process come about? I'm opening your eyes to the bigger picture if you're willing to lend me their beauty. The space you exist in isn't infinite huh? Then please tell me why it is finite and what exists outside of it. Are you really the only one of you in the universe? You know you the best? Are you sure? I think that right now I am without a doubt helping you get to know yourself better. We are all one, I know you just as you know me. SUPER-natural? What is supernatural? All things are simply natural because they exist. I can use another word besides God if you'd like. Perhaps the infinite creator/creation, the infinite source, the eternal being. If the infinite is unkowable then tell me how you know that. I know the infinite very well, personally and by means of deduction. Knowing doesn't have to be a set limitation. Just because it never ends doesn't mean that I don't know it... because I never end... I am the space that is infinite and eternal. Therefore I have eternally and infinitely known and will eternally and infinitely know.

♥~Infinite Love and Eternal Peace~♥

[edit on 19-10-2006 by UbiquitousInfiniteReality]

You tell me how the evolutionary process came about, You show me how the universe is infinite, You explain how there are more than one of me in the unverse, all WITHOUT the aid of a god and some preconcieved notion that cannot be factually resolved.
Do you really think I am that fecking dense, that I trawl through ATS and BTS just so someone else can tell me how to run my life? You are teaching me nothing that I haven't already heard thousands of time before IN FACT you are doing one of the things that piss me right off. How dare you tell me my beliefs are wrong especially in light of the fact your beliefs are FAITH based - definition of faith is the belief in something that cannot be proven. You teaching me about me LOL. OK rant over!
Supernatural things don't exist, most have beeen debunked throughout the years. Its only because we want to believe that these things exist that they have endured the ages - same with gods and whatnot. You WANT god(s) to exist so your mind fills in the blanks to make your fairytale a reality, just not everyone believes the that same fairytale.



G

Originally posted by shihulud
You tell me how the evolutionary process came about, You show me how the universe is infinite, You explain how there are more than one of me in the unverse, all WITHOUT the aid of a god and some preconcieved notion that cannot be factually resolved.
Do you really think I am that fecking dense, that I trawl through ATS and BTS just so someone else can tell me how to run my life? You are teaching me nothing that I haven't already heard thousands of time before IN FACT you are doing one of the things that piss me right off. How dare you tell me my beliefs are wrong especially in light of the fact your beliefs are FAITH based - definition of faith is the belief in something that cannot be proven. You teaching me about me LOL. OK rant over!
Supernatural things don't exist, most have beeen debunked throughout the years. Its only because we want to believe that these things exist that they have endured the ages - same with gods and whatnot. You WANT god(s) to exist so your mind fills in the blanks to make your fairytale a reality, just not everyone believes the that same fairytale.

Good post, shihulud, I suppose we should be grateful for the existence of sermonizing Fundies: if it were not for them it would be difficult to remember how ridiculous the whole thing is.

Originally posted by shihulud

Originally posted by UbiquitousInfiniteReality



♥~Infinite Love and Eternal Peace~♥

[edit on 19-10-2006 by UbiquitousInfiniteReality]

You tell me how the evolutionary process came about, You show me how the universe is infinite, You explain how there are more than one of me in the unverse, all WITHOUT the aid of a god and some preconcieved notion that cannot be factually resolved.
Do you really think I am that fecking dense, that I trawl through ATS and BTS just so someone else can tell me how to run my life? You are teaching me nothing that I haven't already heard thousands of time before IN FACT you are doing one of the things that piss me right off. How dare you tell me my beliefs are wrong especially in light of the fact your beliefs are FAITH based - definition of faith is the belief in something that cannot be proven. You teaching me about me LOL. OK rant over!
Supernatural things don't exist, most have beeen debunked throughout the years. Its only because we want to believe that these things exist that they have endured the ages - same with gods and whatnot. You WANT god(s) to exist so your mind fills in the blanks to make your fairytale a reality, just not everyone believes the that same fairytale.



G

1.) You initiated this conversation with ME by directly replying to a post that I made, therefore you have shown that is in your interest to be having this conversation. So stop getting so mad at ME.
2.) If you haven't noticed that this is the FAITH, spirituality and theology section yet then you need to do some reading of the BTS subsets before you enter them and get mad about people having so called 'faith'. (although I am proving this through logic and intelligence).
3.) I'm telling you how the evolutionary process came about. The infinite and eternal BEING of existence that always has been. It is a plan and a sort of 'DNA' encoded structure of the universe if you will.
4.) I'm teaching you many new things if you'd stop viewing me as your enemy and realize that we're in this together.
5.) "You show me how the universe is infinite." Okay, how's this? NOTHING doesn't exist anywhere, ever, and never will because we have existence and we ARE existence. Existence(the universe) never stops (it's infinite) because it has NOTHING to run into and NOTHING DOES NOT EXIST, therefore nothing never has existed and the existence (universe) is eternal as well. (caps do not represent yelling, just emphasizing).
6.) God is only a psuedonym that entails all the attributes of the Eternal Being of existence (the universe) or the Eternal existence of Being. Do not fear the word. I can refer to it as the Eternal "Being/existence" if you'd like.
7.) When I say supernatural doesn't exist it's because all things within existence are natural. Existence is perfect and just is the way it is because that's the only way that it can be (perfect). Human minds in their attempt to explain something that they don't want to accept call things super-natural in an attempt to push it out of their mind and in a folly of misunderstanding.
8.) If I am truly teaching you 'nothing' that you have 'heard thousands of times' already then could you please refer me to these teachers of nothing? I thought I was the first and only one to truly grasp it for what it is. NOTHING.
9.) If you wish to call it a fairlytale then go ahead, at least it exists. Maybe you could call is 'super'natural now that you understand why the word is used?

I hope I'm helping in some way... just calm down and read... no one is trying to convert you... this is about existence not an organized religion.

♥~Infinite Love and Eternal Peace~♥
@::Bloom::@

[edit on 20-10-2006 by UbiquitousInfiniteReality]

Originally posted by Ersatz

Originally posted by shihulud
.

Good post, shihulud, I suppose we should be grateful for the existence of sermonizing Fundies: if it were not for them it would be difficult to remember how ridiculous the whole thing is.

Sure, I'll sermonize the fundamentals of existence until the day I 'die'. I have no problem with it. As for the ridiculous comment... no comment as to go as far as saying 'no comment'. You should be 'grateful for the existence'! Yes.

♥~Infinite Love and Eternal Peace~♥
@::Bloom::@

[edit on 20-10-2006 by UbiquitousInfiniteReality]

Originally posted by UbiquitousInfiniteReality
1.) You initiated this conversation with ME by directly replying to a post that I made, therefore you have shown that is in your interest to be having this conversation. So stop getting so mad at ME.

I wasn't getting mad just ranting at your audacity. Just because I cant explain things like why evolution is the ways it is, DOESN'T automatically mean that YOUR theory is the correct one, thats like me asking why your body is not symmetrical?

2.) If you haven't noticed that this is the FAITH, spirituality and theology section yet then you need to do some reading of the BTS subsets before you enter them and get mad about people having so called 'faith'. (although I am proving this through logic and intelligence).

You have faith in whatever you like just DONT tell me my faith is wrong when we are both in the same situation.

3.) I'm telling you how the evolutionary process came about. The infinite and eternal BEING of existence that always has been. It is a plan and a sort of 'DNA' encoded structure of the universe if you will.

I dont agree with your assumption!

4.) I'm teaching you many new things if you'd stop viewing me as your enemy and realize that we're in this together.

I dont view you as the enemy and am not adverse to debates but as long as its a debate and not a one way 'I'm right your wrong' rant

5.) "You show me how the universe is infinite." Okay, how's this? NOTHING doesn't exist anywhere, ever, and never will because we have existence and we ARE existence. Existence(the universe) never stops (it's infinite) because it has NOTHING to run into and NOTHING DOES NOT EXIST, therefore nothing never has existed and the existence (universe) is eternal as well. (caps do not represent yelling, just emphasizing).

That still doesnt mean the universe is infinite, there might be something outside the universe just dont know what it is but who says that there has to be nothing outside the universe?

6.) God is only a psuedonym that entails all the attributes of the Eternal Being of existence (the universe) or the Eternal existence of Being. Do not fear the word. I can refer to it as the Eternal "Being/existence" if you'd like.

Why does there have to be an Eterenal being? Do we really need one?

7.) When I say supernatural doesn't exist it's because all things within existence are natural. Existence is perfect and just is the way it is because that's the only way that it can be (perfect). Human minds in their attempt to explain something that they don't want to accept call things super-natural in an attempt to push it out of their mind and in a folly of misunderstanding.

Thats how I see religion and god as an explanation for some thing that cant be explained

8.) If I am truly teaching you 'nothing' that you have 'heard thousands of times' already then could you please refer me to these teachers of nothing? I thought I was the first and only one to truly grasp it for what it is. NOTHING.

My Physics and Maths teachers taught me about nothing. I know that the concept of nothingness and infinity is to all extents a worthless pursuit as it is non comprehendable

9.) If you wish to call it a fairlytale then go ahead, at least it exists. Maybe you could call is 'super'natural now that you understand why the word is used?
I hope I'm helping in some way... just calm down and read... no one is trying to convert you... this is about existence not an organized religion.
♥~Infinite Love and Eternal Peace~♥
@::Bloom::@
[edit on 20-10-2006 by UbiquitousInfiniteReality]

Call it supernatural if you like but as with all supernatural things they are false. Your still trying to convert me to your way of thinking in respect to existence when the answer is unknowable.





G

Simply put, there is none. Humanity is just so used to having a deity to tell them what to do that they cannot exist without the consolation of a god. In reality, it's not the deity instructing people, it's the clerics who fabricated the deity for their own benefit. Religons have been around so long that people think not believing is abnormal. I myself have met opposition to my atheism, but I have the basic scientific and philosophical background to counter anything thrown at me. In science, proof is needed for a theory. God has no proof.

[edit on 21.10.06 by invader_chris]

Anton Thorn's Atheology

I recommend this site. It helped me finally understand the fact that God is a non-concept.

I knew for a long time that the definition of God was a moving line in the sand. Every time a definition was refuted, a new one eventually came out. For a long time, no definition has been put forth.

Christians refrain from attempting to "limit" god with a definition. The problem with this is you don't know what god is without a definition.

I could make up something, call it blaph. I am not going to define blaph because to do so would limit it. Blaph is Infinite.

Conclusively, god does not exist because god is undefined, god is nothing.

Columbus
The Messenger

i would like to thank columbus for the link

though i much prefer richard dawkins

we need to get back to the main argument here

so i'll make a statement

if there is a god, it requires faith to believe in the god
faith, being a blind acceptance in something with no evidence
therefore, there is no evidence
also, therefore faith is illogical

Look at it like this. You have a wrist watch that tells you the current time. It may have other features like stop watch, calender, alarm settings etc. An object with complex construction for simple function. Created for a reason. How much more complicated is a human? Did the eye tell the skull to form a bridge of bone above it to prevent injury? Did the organs get together and tell the heart to pump blood through them and feed them nutrients and oxygen? Nothing this complicated could have been accident in my opinion.

Originally posted by ConstantlyWondering
Look at it like this. You have a wrist watch that tells you the current time. It may have other features like stop watch, calender, alarm settings etc. An object with complex construction for simple function. Created for a reason. How much more complicated is a human? Did the eye tell the skull to form a bridge of bone above it to prevent injury? Did the organs get together and tell the heart to pump blood through them and feed them nutrients and oxygen? Nothing this complicated could have been accident in my opinion.

Who created the watch-maker?

In the first instance Evolution is a simple process that produces complexity. We did not start out as watches.

Any entity capable of designing something as complex as the cosmos surely is at least equally as complex. Therefore, that intelligent designer also must have been designed (the design inference only is logically permissible if applied uniformly). And, surely, the intelligent designer’s designer also must have been designed, by a Super intelligent designer.

Positing a Creator/God simply replaces one mystery (the origin of the cosmos) with an even more baffling mystery (the origin of the designer, the origin of the designer’s designer, ad infinitum).

The Universe just works without need of a god. The exact mechanism are a mystery. Take it or leave it.

However, there is more evidence to say that he DOES exsist, albeit it comes down to a matter of personal belief.

That is a contradictory statement. Evidence is not a matter of personal belief. There is no evidence for god because you don't know what you are talking about when you say "god".

God is a non-concept and non-explanation. To invoke God as an explanation for complexity of life to pronounce that no explanation is possible and therefore a commandment not to search for one. It is a commandment not to perform science. God is a cop-out and an afront to science.

When you look at the Universe & especially our planet within our galaxy, the particular placement & arrangement of our solar system seems to have a purpose for being where it is. Like a delibrete chioce to be where it is.

Quite the opposite. The chance for life to develop in this region may be higher and may explain why we are here, but there is as yet no proof that there is not life in places where we might think it less likely.

And why are humans the only sentient species? The only species with a conscience? We are the only living thing with the ability to reason, & weigh the options of action vs. consequence.

Pure speculation, and probably totally wrong.

But it's more than the "other" viewpoint can provide. (outside of the usual lame response that is generally given)

Calling rational, thoroughly thought out explanations that you don't even understand "lame" is foolish. Your position is based on mostly false assumptions, yet you call it "more" than what we can provide. I suggest you learn everything you can about Athiesm, then come back later.

So it comes down to an individual choice as to what we believe. And whether or not you have FAITH.

What you believe is a choice, but what you know depends on taking the time to find out and putting your ignorant prejudices on one side. FAITH is nothing more than a refusal to put your faith to the test.

If you are commanded not to put your faith to the test, you are hiding from yourself the fact that your faith is misplaced and it will fail when put to the test.

Columbus
The Messenger