what proof is there that 'god' exists?

It is NOT a huge conclusion to jump into believing that God told Job, there is destruction in this world and people blame God for what hes done when they dont even think that it their blaming someone who's supposed to be Pure, Good, Loving, peaceful, maybe satan's got something to do with it????? think about that, these things happen because of sin, no wonder it doesnt stop happening when the whole world is sinning and goin against God, anyone would be upset if they created something and it was doing the exact oposite it was told to do, and no wonder the world keeps doing it when people dont recognise their sin.


Believing it was an alien its a much bigger conclusion to jump into than God, after all there are miracles that prove it, unlike any alien encounters, think about this miracle that we all take for granted every day, " At least im alive right now and well"


regards

Sorry Gonz,
Now you're talkin' faith. Faith is not proof, no matter how much you want it to be.
Scripture interpreted with the eye of modern man isn't proof of advanced knowldge either.

Keep diggin into your faith though, I'm sure you'll find some interesting things.

Your right about faith not being proof, but thats what beleiving in God's about, if you dont have faith that God is real because of all the things hes done which you can see everyday then you wont be able to see the truth, i know that the world works through logic and that but there are so many things which just dont make logic even in the lives of christians BUT, how many books or library's would we need to fit all knowledge in? and to be honest would we ever read all those books about everything of everything, to apply it in out lifes???? You will see when Jesus comes back that there is a God, and I can tell you unless you open your heart to God He wont come in, I have had to, I used to think just like you (believe me), and trust me I KNOW that God exist not because of the proof I know but because God revealed it to me, You will not understand that, i know that you might think that life is too much sometimes or right now to even believe in a God, but I dont believe in lieing and I am telling you now, you WILL not see any truth if you dont open your heart to God, Believing in God isnt about going to church, oh Praise the Lord, Halleluiah and all that stuff, I was put off by all that, until I read the Bible.

Infact until I became a christian, since I was born I have been aga
inst something that I have NEVER read, after i started reading it i understood what i thought could have never worked out at ALL, this can go from Proof to Faith, but one thing is clear scientists think the earth was formed millions of years ago BUT, How can you explain when a mine that was destroyed 50 years ago was dug up recently and scientists thought the hat had been buried hundreds of years ago, they get things wrong about so much stuff how can you even believe them on something that is Major like the Big bang, they can mess up on something so easy and that they study right in front of them and you believe that something from millions of years ago has been prooved at all ( EASILY ) to make the whole world believe it???, but anyway we HAVE the Bible saying to us what happened long ago, it is not rocket science after all God wouldnt make it like that.


I advise you to do something ask God, if He's real to reveal himself to you, if He's not you absolutly got nothing to worry about, dont you think? If there was a God and you didnt know about it because the truth could never go in your brain, wouldnt you like him to reveal himself to you anyway that you may know the truth? I would!!!! just like if you had a dad and he left you but when you were young and you never met him, wouldnt you like him to show himsel to you even thought you had given up hope????

Thanks for your comments im sure it will make a lot of people think about both sides =)

Well Gonz, the truth is that I am very comfortable with my spiritual self. I understand what god is, and I have accepted it. But this thread is about proving God's existence, which cannot be done. One needs faith when there is no proof.

As for your views on 'science' you are a bit off base if you ask me. For example, the scientists that found a hat in a mine, or whatever you were going on about, are not the same scientists that study the background radiation of the universe. Saying that you can't trust science because someone had a wrong hypothosis is pretty rediculous.

I didnt go off the subject at all, im trying to proove to you that God is real which is what this is about, You choose to differ but not research, well, i cant do it for you, good luck. When Jesus comes back you cant go to christians and say they never told you, to you it's a joke and can't be prooven or whatever, the bible it self says you cant believe in God without Faith, that explains it why you dont, but thats your choice but when He's here you WILL see.....

Dont know how anyone even has the idea that we came from nothing THAT is more absurd than anything.........!!!!!

Originally posted by gonz

Ok heres the proof,
Isaiah 40:22 "It is he who sits above the circle of the earth..."(NKJ)
Question : why did the translator select "circle" and not "sphere"?
Answer : because at that time everyone thought the world was flat.
So Isaiah 40:22 could read "It is i=he who sits above the sphere of the earth..."

Questions : How did Job know that? He could not have know.
- God must have told Job what to write!
- i.e. the Bible is written by God

1. The passage saying the earth is round is Isaiah 40:22:

He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in.

Did God really write the Bible?

This passage may reasonably be interpreted as referring to a flat circular earth with the heavens forming a dome above it. Such an interpretation is consistent with other passages of the Bible which refer to a solid firmament (Gen. 1:6-20, 7:11; Ezekiel 1:22-26; Job 9:8, 22:14, etc.). It is also consistent with the cosmology common in neighboring cultures.

Isaiah 11:12 refers to the "four quarters of the earth", but we do not take that as indicative of the earth's shape.

2. The shape of the earth may already have been known in Isaiah's time. Ancient astronomers could determine that the earth was round by observing its circular shadow move across the moon during lunar eclipses. There is some suggestion that the Egyptians knew of the earth's spherical size and shape around 2550 B.C.E. (more than a thousand years before Moses). The Greek philosopher Pythagoras, who was born in 532 B.C.E., defended the spherical theory on the basis of observations he had made of the shape of the sun and moon (Uotila 1984). If this information was known by educated Greeks and Egyptians during biblical times, its use by Isaiah is nothing special.

1 Samuel 2:8
The pillars of the earth are the LORD's, and he hath set the world upon them.

Job 9:6
Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble.

Pillars????? Earth????

------------Here the word of God (Bible)about penisis:

-Ezekiel 23.30
For she doted upon their paramours, whose flesh is as the flesh of asses, and whose issue is like the issue of horses.


-Exodus 4:24-25
The LORD met him, and sought to kill him. Then Zipporah took a sharp stone, and cut off the foreskin of her son, and cast it at his feet, and said, Surely a bloody husband art thou to me.

-Deuteronomy 23:1
He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD.

Did God really write the Bible?

Originally posted by gonz
I didnt go off the subject at all, im trying to proove to you that God is real which is what this is about, You choose to differ but not research, well, i cant do it for you, good luck. When Jesus comes back you cant go to christians and say they never told you, to you it's a joke and can't be prooven or whatever, the bible it self says you cant believe in God without Faith, that explains it why you dont, but thats your choice but when He's here you WILL see.....

Dont know how anyone even has the idea that we came from nothing THAT is more absurd than anything.........!!!!!

Wow Mr. Gonz
I've done my research, but I choose to research with more than one source (Bible). On that same token, when you come back in your next life and are wondering why you haven't ascended to a higher plane of existance, don't say the Hindu's and Buddhists didn't tell ya. And, at no point did I say that we came from nothing. As a matter of fact, the creationist belief is, in essence, the belief that we came from nothing, and that God farted, and created the whole of existance.

You really make me laugh, lol, I think you you stop trying to prove it wrong and try to prove it wrong and see what you find, I am no scientist Im telling what I know and I even researched on these abit.

You are saying couldnt have written the Bible because the bible mentions Penisis?????? what is up with that, is it not supposed to be talked about??, didnt God after all made it?? do you feel bad or ashamed talking about your son's penis???

You sound like you know the bible but only to try and prove it wrong!, there is absolutly no point trying to argue with people who dont try to prove it right when all they do is try to prove their point.

I can say this because, I became a christian 2 years ago, so as you can see I been on your side, and I been on this side, looking in 2 seperate diferent ways and I chose this one. Do you think I really chose to live this way because it makes me feel good or just is easier to live or any other reason? Why would I?

Unless you try to understand the facts and have Faith that He IS real you will not see any truth in life.

I dont care about the 5 bits of proof which I believe are true, I was trying to make you understand but looking for proof of God is like slapping Him in the face, when He made this whole World and you can't even see the amazing things about it, Why is it hard to understand that? A massive Universe? a extremely detailed world in every way, and that was all from nothing?????? from gases?? right!!!

Scientists say so much rubbish about food, oh you should eat this and that, a year later "Scientists have found out that lemon juice doesnt actually help with cancer it actually makes it worse", something they have in their hands RIGHT now, studying it and get it wrong.......The big Bang never seen because we werent there and their absolutly sure about it, COME ONE dont try and prove me wrong you know that is a bit weird, right?????

Raso

Wahhwoo,

I believe we came from nothing, but God farted???

I'll leave you with that thought........................

Hey raso, I guess we'll just find out right? =P

Dude, I am so lost right now. What are you talking about?

Since this thread is about proving the existance of God, and you yourself have admitted that you can't prove his existance, then that is that.

And again, you say 'scientists' like it's one guy who knows everything. When someone makes a hypothosis, they test it, see if it works, if it does, then it does, if it doesn't then it doesn't. tere is no be all end all final answer. (Did you happen to fail science class by any chance? )

And there are millions of people who die every day who do see what happens next, unfortunately you're basing what you belief on something written by someone who has never actually seen what really happens next.

We'll leave it as that...

Like I said We'll just find out....

irreducible complexity.

mechanism for beginning.

evolutionists/atheists got those figured out? the evidence points towards a creator.

It points to an unknown variable maybe, but jumping to a creator for an answer is a bit premature and supersticious.

What makes the sun rise and set? Oh, it must be God...oh wait, it's the Earth rotating.

Why does lightning strike and destroy our home? God must be angry..Oh wait, it's just charged particles in the atmosphere.

You get my meaning.

how did the earth come to rotate? or come to be? WHY (not how) does the sun rise and set? where did it come from? what particles randomly collided to produce that phenomena? oh that's right. poof! it just magically came into being from absolutely nothing, perfectly ordered and life sustaining. how lucky for us.

science can't confirm the validity of science. that would make it self-affirming. the purpose of science is to deny ignorance which it's doing quite nicely by showing that there's no way on God's green earth that the universe and all the life in it evolved or came together so wonderfully without a Designer.

LOL, Raso

Whitewave is absolutly right, its not how it works but how it got there,

Your based on the Logic of this world which sometimes may not add up to God's ways, you will never believe in God aproaching it that way also because you quite blatently dont want to!!!, you base your views on what you see, and blame what the Bible says about God for the disasters of this world (example: Lightning), and yet you dont blame Satan.....!!!

God didnt or doesnt make bad things happen, Satan does it, why does God allow it? well He gaves a choice, Obey God or not (sinning), Men choose not to, and look what happens!....we cant see God because of sin.

You see dieing (even a christian) as the END of life, so you think dieing is really IT for someone, thats why you blame God, but dieing isnt the END, in fact its the beggining of Heaven or Hell (which ever one is apropriate to each one), if you obey God He will take you to Heaven and thats whats most important, we like to think we know best...and think living on the earth is the best and THE place to be.

Please dont come back saying that ive changed the subject, because this just leads onto proof of God! just not the way you want to see it!

[edit on 8-10-2006 by gonz]

Let me say once again, I do believe in god. I am a very spiritual person. That doesn't mean that when I don't understand something I immediately say "It's God's will" or something like it.

By attributing everything to God immediately, one often bypasses the curiosity and wonder that makes up man's conciousness. Spouting crap like irriducible complexity is just another instance of saying "we don't get it, so it must be the direct hand of God."

that's all I'm saying. God does not supply proof of it's existance aside from the eveidence that existance exists.

Thats ok!, but there is proof of His existance thought, all you see IS proof!

But thats ok, if you dont think so, =)

Again, it's your faith that turns what you see into proof. By that logic, all that I see is proof of a flying spaghetti monster.

The very nature of God is that he isn't there.

Lol, you obviously take most things in this world for granted...

Wheather you want it or not this world is proof that there is a God.

This world is FAR too detailed to have come from ((Gas)), or Nothing, so perfect that there is man and woman no average "Being", a world full of detail like ours with a mouth and nose and eyes and even the mind, came from nothing? their in such places to help us breathe and help us see, there must have been understanding before the creation of Human kind.