Samson: the Original Suicide Attacker

Let's do a little historical trip, to see where the origins of the Sucidie Attack are, who actually was the First Suicide Attacker.

It is interesting to find out, that the First Sucidie Attacker, who killed alot of Civilians and Himself in the process of the Attack was actually a Biblical Person:

Suicide attack

Suicide attacks throughout history have taken various forms and have been encouraged by the lionization of those who laid down their lives for causes they deemed righteous. There are numerous examples, from Samson's suicidal destruction of a Philistine temple (as recounted in the Book of Judges)

Interesting to find out, that Samson was the First Recorded Sucidie Attacker, who out of desperation, revenge and hatred towards the Philistines, who used Delilah, to approach him, shave his head to take away his powers, and then they blinded him and took him prisoner

Samson

One day the Philistine leaders assemble in a temple for a religious sacrifice to their god Dagon for having delivered Samson into their hands. As their merriment grows, they summon Samson so that he may entertain them. Once inside the temple, Samson asks the servant who is leading him to the temple's central pillars if he may lean against them.

"Then Samson prayed to the LORD, 'O Sovereign LORD, remember me. O God, please strengthen me just once more, and let me with one blow get revenge on the Philistines for my two eyes' (Judges 16:28)." "Samson said, 'Let me die with the Philistines!' (Judges 16:30) Down came the temple on the rulers and all the people in it. Thus he killed many more as he died than while he lived." (Judges 16:30).

Makes you Think doesn't it?

[edit on 22/7/06 by Souljah]

I actually told a few people this when discussing terrorism a few months ago. All of them remember Samsons story from school, but none of them made this connection of him being a terrorist trying to kill as many people as possible (incl himself) + with the blessing of the christian god who gave him the power to destroy the building...

yeah, sure made them think

Yes, and look at his results. What was it, over 3,000 killed in this final act? Before that he had killed over 1,000 of them with the jaw-bone of a donkey, burned down their grain fields, and tore the gates of their city of it's hinges. Today's suicide killers are inefficient by comparison. If you can't out-perform a blind man in chains, you need to re-think your strategy.

Or just maybe the real answer is that God was with Samson. Do you think he could have torn down the supporting pillars to such a large building on his own? Samson was destroying those that were worshiping a false God. God honored Samson's request, but shunned the Philistine. Muslims should question why their god doesn't help them out in such a manner? (No crashing airplanes into buildings doesn't count, that's just the law of physics, not supernatural) Maybe Allah is as dead as the Philistinian god of grain, Dagon whose statues were crushed under the building that housed him. Even today the "Army of god", A.K.A. Hezbollah, are getting their tails handed to them on a platter by the Israelis. Army of god indeed. Pfffft! Makes you think doesn't it? Maybe they are on the wrong side.


*Edited cause I can't spell, and to add...


Was Samson really a suicide attacker? No, he was a prisioner that attacked his jailers. There's a huge difference here. Are all the suicide bombers killing people while chained between guards? No, they are free as any Israeli. Free as the people enjoying coffee in the coffee shop when the killer runs in and yells "Allah is greater" before blowing up his bomb. It would be a different story if these guys were chained to a pillar or a guard in the coffee shop before they killed everyone in there. We could actually follow that logic.


[edit on 26-7-2006 by dbates]

You have to look at this story in metaphores - suicide attackers today do not have actually chains around their hands, but I am sure their feelings are the same with Samson, who was a prisoner; they are prisoners in their own country. Samson was praying to God to demolish the temple, and God granted his last wish and prayer. Or maybe he found his last strenght in himself to do this final act before he dies.

When Samson says to God, "Let me die with the Philistines!" isn't that the same as suicide attackers are doing today? Aren't their prayers equal or the same to Samson's ones? Both wish death upon members of another religious group - a group which has them in chains.

For his time Samson was the original suicide attacker - but he still performed an action, which killed not only him, but other members in a Temple.

If Samson was alive today, do you think his wishes would be any different?

If Samson were alive today he most certainly would not be on the side of the little bitches who strap bombs to themselves and detonate. He would probabaly sit back and laugh at the futility of such acts. I can see it now, Samson: " Oh look there goes another one of those moronic suicide bombers blowing themselves up. Sure they took a few innocents with them but they have removed themselves from the gene pool and did not accomplish anything but their own demise". Souljah, do you not find this hilarious? Muslims as a whole have been extremely impotent at combat since Saladin(althought he was a Kurd)so I can see why they have to blow themselves up like lemmings jumping off a cliff in Norway. It must suck to be so unimportant and inept at war. Look at the war in 67' the combined forces of Islam suprised the much smaller state of holy Israel but yet what was the outcome of that conflict..Muslim defeat...how funny is that? I hope the suicide bombers keep blowing themselves up ,I wish 100-200 of them would off themselves a day .

This Samson fellow. Does he exist in more than one religion? More than one account of his feats - from dis-similar perspectives? Are there similar characters in other religions? I'm not questioning anything and I won't take a position, I'm just curious.

Thanks much,

Victor K.

Originally posted by V Kaminski
This Samson fellow. Does he exist in more than one religion? More than one account of his feats - from dis-similar perspectives? Are there similar characters in other religions? I'm not questioning anything and I won't take a position, I'm just curious.

Thanks much,

Victor K.

I would imagine he appears in the Torah of judiasm as he is in the old testament of the bible which is a translated version of the books of the torah.

What is the point of your thread souljah? are you implying christians or the Israelites were the original suicide bombers?

Do I have to remind you that christ had not yet been born in the time of samson? and christians take their teachings from the new testament? Also in christianity suicide for most any reason is considered a mortal sin...thats why we dont strap bombs to ourselves. We dont worship "martyrs" as muslims do.... (and please dont take that literally I am aware they dont actually worship suicide bombers but they do praise them).

It's interesting to note that to some a person may be a hero, while to others they are terrorists. America itself was founded on terrorism. Today, if you were to provoke any violence against the government, you are condemned as a "terrorist," and yet during the Revolutionary war, we Americans viewed those who fought against the British government as heroes, while the British viewed us a terrorists. It's also interesting to note that the event of the Boston Tea Party was also viewed as an act of terrorism by the British.

Pertaining to the Samson reference from the Bible, it should also be noted that there were other passages that referred to what we know as terrorism today. Although I believe that the Christian, Jewish, and Islam faiths (including others that I failed to mention) are peaceful in nature, and their main teaching is love for the fellow man, I did find some other quotes from the Bible.

Hosea 13:16 (NLT) - The people of Samaria must bear the consequences of their guilt because they rebelled against their God. They will be killed by an invading army, their little ones dashed to death against the ground, their pregnant women ripped open by swords."

Hosea 13:16 (KJV) Samaria will bear her guilt because she has rebelled against her God.
They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to pieces, and their pregnant women ripped open.

Hosea 10:14
the roar of battle will rise against your people, so that all your fortresses will be devastated-- as Shalman devastated Beth Arbel on the day of battle, when mothers were dashed to the ground with their children.
10:15
Thus will it happen to you, O Bethel, because your wickedness is great. When that day dawns, the king of Israel will be completely destroyed.


2 Kings 8:12
"Why is my lord weeping?" asked Hazael. "Because I know the harm you will do to the Israelites," he answered. "You will set fire to their fortified places, kill their young men with the sword, dash their little children to the ground, and rip open their pregnant women."

2 Kings 15:16
At that time Menahem, starting out from Tirzah, attacked Tiphsah and everyone in the city and its vicinity, because they refused to open their gates. He sacked Tiphsah and ripped open all the pregnant women.

Psalms 137:8
O Daughter of Babylon, doomed to destruction, happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us--
137:9
he who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks

Isaiah 13:16
Their infants will be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses will be looted and their wives ravished.

Isaiah 13:16
Their infants will be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses will be looted and their wives ravished.

Nahum 3:10
Yet she was taken captive and went into exile. Her infants were dashed to pieces at the head of every street. Lots were cast for her nobles, and all her great men were put in chains.

Ezekiel 23: (KJV)

45: And the righteous men, they shall judge them after the manner of adulteresses, and after the manner of women that shed blood; because they are adulteresses, and blood is in their hands.

46: For thus saith the Lord GOD; I will bring up a company upon them, and will give them to be removed and spoiled.

47: And the company shall stone them with stones, and dispatch them with their swords; they shall slay their sons and their daughters, and burn up their houses with fire.

48: Thus will I cause lewdness to cease out of the land, that all women may be taught not to do after your lewdness.


Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.(Numbers 31:17-18)"

1 Samuel 15:
2 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt.
3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep.

[edit on 30-7-2006 by DJMessiah]

Originally posted by Souljah
Let's do a little historical trip, to see where the origins of the Sucidie Attack are, who actually was the First Suicide Attacker.

It is interesting to find out, that the First Sucidie Attacker, who killed alot of Civilians and Himself in the process of the Attack was actually a Biblical Person
Suicide attack

Makes you Think doesn't it?

What makes me think, and what stood out in your message was the implication that God condones and allows revenge and vengeful acts of violence to get back at the people that have wronged you in the past... That to me is very odd and I think hypocritical isn't it?

Mod Note: Big Quote – Please Review This Link.



[edit on 30-7-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

Metaphors can be lost and warnings twisted in translation. Are not suicide and murder both considered sins in the Koran, Torah and the Bible?

But the major religious texts can also be claimed to hold examples of acceptable violence on behalf of faith, or is it lands and profits threatened by 'them' over yonder hills?

Religion is a metaphor for the power of man with the wrath of God as a spiritual siren. Yet it's uncanny how many religious scenarios promise material plentitude.

Samson and the donkey bone sounds suspiciously like modern day Hollywood and a miraculous escape. Hero's usually have lots of hair in Hollywood. Is Samson's hair and loss of it and his power the source of orthodox Judaeism's love of real hair on men and wigs on orthodox women? Is this revenge for Delilah having Samson's head shaved?
Sorry if this ends OT.

Sampson was more a terrorist than a negotiator, because that's the era he lived in
its when the Israelites were invading and battling the Cannannite empire ~1280 BC


the sampson myth is designed to be a moral and inspirational story, imo


as far as the Israelite tribal G-d bestowing a supernatural strength to a sampson sans hair...
there are numberous examples, reports, of 98 lb females lifting cars or trees
off trapped youngsters...the desperation of the moment and the adrenalin rush
and the focused intention of the mother to save the child
are more the reason for these superhuman feats,
than some 'blessing from G0d'

Originally posted by irontyrant
It must suck to be so unimportant and inept at war. Look at the war in 67' the combined forces of Islam suprised the much smaller state of holy Israel but yet what was the outcome of that conflict..Muslim defeat...how funny is that?

I hope the suicide bombers keep blowing themselves up ,I wish 100-200 of them would off themselves a day .

the countries that fought israel in 67 where not islamic countries but where secular nationalist countries and governments.

Syria = Bathist (secular nationalis)
Egypt = secular nationalist
Jordan = secular nationalist
lebanon = secular and nationalist

second point. Arabs do not represent the worlds muslims. Arabs are a minority representing only between 13 to 15% of the world's muslim population anything they do or don't do does not make a difference to muslims. Arabs could lose a million wars in a row and it won't even make a difference to muslims.

Secondly arab countries in general as in there governments are not muslim but are nationalist/secular there is no Islamic arab government not even the house is saud is an islamic government. Under islamic law all forms of monarchy or inherited power are forbidden so dictatorships are forbidden.

Samson wasn't a "suicide attacker". You'll have to keep digging to get the first one of those. Samson was a "suicide captive". I think he just got tired of walking in a circle and being chained to columns and decided to take out his captors while breaking his surly bonds. There's a big difference there.

It is kinda ironic though to see people who say that the Jewish people have no claim to the land of Israel because the Bible is a bunch of stories will use the Bible to weave fascinating stories about the "first" suicide bomber being Jewish.

As if that changes the way society should perceive today's suicide bombers any?

Ah well... gotta respect you for your persistence. Some people really will dig ANYWHERE.

Originally posted by Souljah
It is interesting to find out, that the First Sucidie Attacker, who killed alot of Civilians and Himself in the process of the Attack was actually a Biblical Person:
"Then Samson prayed to the LORD, 'O Sovereign LORD, remember me. O God, please strengthen me just once more, and let me with one blow get revenge on the Philistines for my two eyes' (Judges 16:28)." "Samson said, 'Let me die with the Philistines!' (Judges 16:30) Down came the temple on the rulers and all the people in it. Thus he killed many more as he died than while he lived." (Judges 16:30).

Makes you Think doesn't it?

[edit on 22/7/06 by Souljah]

Thats a strange theory you have there that Samson was the first terrorist. You must be anti- semitic to come up with something like that - seriously dude. Out of all people in history you're going to choose samson an Israeli, how convenient
I don't know about the rest of the people on this board here but LOL pretty transparent...

Originally posted by Djarums
It is kinda ironic though to see people who say that the Jewish people have no claim to the land of Israel because the Bible is a bunch of stories will use the Bible to weave fascinating stories about the "first" suicide bomber being Jewish.

That is incorrect. Muslims do not condemn every part of the Bible. There are passages in there that Jesus did indeed teach, but there are also others in which were added by scribes, changed through time, or mistranslated. You must understand that the Bible had not become a whole book after many years after Jesus' (pbuh) ascension in heaven. Before the many scriptures had been put together to make what is the "Bible," there were scriptures that were omitted, destroyed, and lost through time. Many different sects of Judeo-Christians who followed the teachings had copies of scriptures that other groups did not. It is because we view the NT as having errors and mistranslations, that we do not trust it completely.

Pertaining to the "promised land" of Israel, I will give you a quote from the Bible, and you can tell me your thoughts on it, and I will give you mine.

The claim that the land of Israel belongs to the Jews has been justified by Christians through the passage:

"On that day, God made a covenant with Abraham, saying: "To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt as far as the great river the Euphrates. The land of the Kenites, Kenizites, Kadmonites; the Chitties, Perizites, Refaim; the Emorites, Canaanites, Giga#es and Yevusites." - Genesis 15:18-21

This of course, would mean the land from Egypt to Jordan and Syria would also fall into the "promised land," for the descendants of Abraham. Many Christians fail to note that Ismael is also the seed and first born of Abraham, which would mean that the land also belongs to the current day descendants of Arabs as well as Jews.

You can find this passage from the Bible, also advocating this thought:


"And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called. And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he is thy seed." - Genesis 21:12-13

The "bondwoman" the Bible is referring to is Hagar, whom of which, Abraham had his first son with. It is because of Sarah's jealousy that Hagar was forced to leave Abraham.

[edit on 31-7-2006 by DJMessiah]

Originally posted by DJMessiah
It is because we view the NT as having errors and mistranslations, that we do not trust it completely.

which would mean that the land also belongs to the current day descendants of Arabs as well as Jews.
[edit on 31-7-2006 by DJMessiah]

Wow are you the same person as Souljah under a different name? The Bible clearly states that Hagar was cast out and Ishmael was not the chosen son to receive the blessing of Abraham. If you're going to quote the Bible then don't manipulate this for the board, especially those raised reading the bible... LOL. Quote from the Qur'an dude, because you can't win with that argument from the Bible. Anyway Joshua killed 32 kings and that was when the land was taken and it surely pissed off every Muslim alive then and now. Why attack the Bible to justify your anti jewish beliefs? You're not going to change American thinking by stupid biblical trickery LOL.

Originally posted by interested1
Wow are you the same person as Souljah under a different name? The Bible clearly states that Hagar was cast out and Ishmael was not the chosen son to receive the blessing of Abraham. If you're going to quote the Bible then don't manipulate this for the board, especially those raised reading the bible... LOL. Quote from the Qur'an dude, because you can't win with that argument from the Bible. Anyway Joshua killed 32 kings and that was when the land was taken and it surely pissed off every Muslim alive then and now. Why attack the Bible to justify your anti jewish beliefs? You're not going to change American thinking by stupid biblical trickery LOL.

what are you talking about ?

Chosen not to recive blessings from abraham?

how can that be?

Why would god choose one son over the other?

Why would hagar be thrown out?

Originally posted by interested1

Originally posted by DJMessiah
It is because we view the NT as having errors and mistranslations, that we do not trust it completely.

which would mean that the land also belongs to the current day descendants of Arabs as well as Jews.
[edit on 31-7-2006 by DJMessiah]

Wow are you the same person as Souljah under a different name? The Bible clearly states that Hagar was cast out and Ishmael was not the chosen son to receive the blessing of Abraham. If you're going to quote the Bible then don't manipulate this for the board, especially those raised reading the bible... LOL. Quote from the Qur'an dude, because you can't win with that argument from the Bible. Anyway Joshua killed 32 kings and that was when the land was taken and it surely pissed off every Muslim alive then and now. Why attack the Bible to justify your anti jewish beliefs? You're not going to change American thinking by stupid biblical trickery LOL.

I hope your reply was a joke. No, I am not souljah. I am well familiar with the Bible. Do you understand that it was not God that cast Ismael and Hagar out, but Sarah because she was jealous that God promised Abraham's lineage the promised land and the status of kings? If the promised land was not promised to Ismael too, then what reason did Sarah have to kick Hagar and Ismael out for and be jealous over?

I'm not "manipulating this board." I read your above comment about calling someone "anti-Semitic." I would advise you to do your research before posting again. Arabs are also Semites, since both the Hebrew and Arabic language stemmed from the Semitic language. I would also advise you not to spew out the phrase "anti-Semitic" so easily whenever there is any disagreement with Israel's actions. Would you care to explain to me when the country Israel became a religion, because you seem to think any opposition to it is against the Jewish faith? I've been to Israel and I can assure you that there are more faiths being practiced there than just Judaism.

I find it funny that you want me to quote the Quran only and not the Bible. Are you under the assumption that I haven't read the entire Bible or studied the Christian faith? You seem to fail in your arguments, and if you can, learn more on your history. Just to note about when you said: "Joshua killed 32 kings and that was when the land was taken and it surely pissed off every Muslim alive then and now," can you tell me when Islam was founded and then compare it to the date Joshua killed 32 kings, and then tell me how he was able to "piss" off Muslims when we didn't exist at the time? Thanks. Salaam.

Originally posted by DJMessiah

I hope your reply was a joke. No, I am not souljah. I am well familiar with the Bible. Do you understand that it was not God that cast Ismael and Hagar out, but Sarah because she was jealous that God promised Abraham's lineage the promised land and the status of kings? If the promised land was not promised to Ismael too, then what reason did Sarah have to kick Hagar and Ismael out for and be jealous over?

So in other words you are pissed off that Hagar was kicked out LOL. I also suppose that God according to the Bible did not promise the land to Jacob renamed Israel? The old testament clearly states that Ishmael would have lands and 9 princes which of course came to be the Arabic people, but ISRAEL (Jacob) was chosen by God. Why argue this unless you are muslim?

Originally posted by DJMessiah
I'm not "manipulating this board." I read your above comment about calling someone "anti-Semitic." I would advise you to do your research before posting again.

Did you read the post or just arguing for fun? Souljah specifically stated that Samson in the Bible was the first terrorist. Samson was a Jew and of course not a terrorist or the first terrorist in history. Such a statement is anti-semitic, or anti-Israel if you prefer. Just as if I said white people are the first killers of black people, or Mexicans were the first slave masters - it's called racist buddy.

Originally posted by DJMessiah
I find it funny that you want me to quote the Quran only and not the Bible. Are you under the assumption that I haven't read the entire Bible or studied the Christian faith?

Who cares if you have or not. Are you christian or Muslim? If you're Muslim then like every other Muslim you only accept things in the Bible that the qu'ran agrees with, lol, which includes believing Ishmael's descendants are the chosen people not Israel or the twelve tribes of Jacob. It's a blood feud IMO one brother pissed off for not getting as good an inheritance.