its the other two you should be focusing on. the one on the left is the same logo used by the world council of churches (or the UCC?) (it supposedly means victory. I just see an upside down tammuz cross affixiated to a regular cross to make a lorraine cross).

the one on the right is also represents a pheonix, as evident by the templar or tammuz cross behind the dove (pheonix with a sun symbol behind it).

the symbol on the top is the obvious all seeing eye. what you have here is a trifecta

*deleted to remove double post. sorry about that.

[edit on 2006-7-22 by NuTroll]

Actually chief_counsellor is dead on the money correct…

Originally By chief_counsellor
And yeah, the eye in a triangle has been a symbol for God for centuries. Since this is a Lutheran church, that would represent the trinity, the triangle, the three rays, the eye...the Truine God. The dove, the Holy Spirit. The cross over a globe, representing a lot of things, but in this context, the triumph of Christ through his death and resurection, and his supremacy over the earth.

The reason for the Dove is its one of the only two physical representations of the Holy Spirit that is mentioned in the Bible, The other that is sometimes used is the Tongue of Fire. It is most certainly not a phoenix.

i know the obvious reason a dove is used (symbol of peace), but why does it have eagle's wings and why is it on top of a sun disc with a templar cross forming a disc behind its head?

more importantly, why is the dove standing upright instead of decending (although i would probably call that out too).

And I know for a fact that Albert Pike talks in great depth the relationship between
Masonry and Lucifer... therefore according to him it is "Luciferian" and a cult is (SNIP)

Ok, I see that you're going to trot out the old 'I read it on the 'net, so it must be true, stuff', as well as the 'I have preconceived notion, I'm right, and I must educate everyone' cards.

Blah. Let me know if you want a discussion, and then we'll talk. Til then, this is useless.

defcon5

Thanks, but I have already recieved the "Trinity" explanation from several others (you would know that if you read the post). As far as the Renaissance aspect of this building, I doubt it. This part of the church was built in the 1930s during the indusrial revolution. I was looking to find out more information from someone who has knowledge of the true occultic meaning of the symbols. Here's another pic of the church so you know what the church is. This is the first Lutheran church I've seen these symbols on and I think it is odd... especially when churches that are more than a century old don't have these symbols adorning their entry way. seems like outside influence maybe.

Thanks for the info Defcon

Originally posted by Essedarius
I would guess that the bird above is a symbol for God the Father.
From Matthew 17 at Jesus's baptism, God the Father appeared in the shape of a dove.

Perhaps that makes the entire carving a symbol of the holy trinity:

The all-seeing eye as the Holy Spirit.
The cross as the Son.
And the dove as God the Father

The dove that landed on Jesus at His baptism was symbolic of the Holy Spirit.
The upright cross is representative of Jesus.

As for the single eye, there are verses that say things like, I will guide you with my eyelids, which kind of indicate a watchful Maker, but like someone else said, I'm not Lutheran so I really don't know about that eye.

The devil is an unoriginal copycat, who has used many holy things to desecrate and foul with his insane plan to 'be like the Most High". The upside down cross is one symbol that satanism gloats over as if it is an original. The pentagram is nothing more than the star of David profaned. And so on.

The all seeing eye on the US currency is, as far as I'm concerned of the same stripe since the Bible specifically denounces misuse of the Holy and putting a symbol of God on the mammon is, imho, one of the biggest mistakes ever made by US money men.

[edit on 22-7-2006 by curiousity]

[edit on 22-7-2006 by curiousity]

once again i say this, different post, same thought

look at his date he opened his account:

Mordecai81
Member
Registered: 21-7-2006

and his first thread he makes:

posted on 21-7-2006 at 04:01 PM (post id: 2356173)

--== MODERATORS ==--
SET UP RESTRICTIONS ON HOW LONG YOU HAVE TO BE A MEMBER BEFORE YOU CAN POST A NEW THREAD.
MAKE IT LIKE A MINIMUM OF 1 WEEK AND 30 POSTS.
BY THEN WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO DESCERN THE BASIC CHARACTER OF A PERSON ENOUGH TO TELL IF THEY ARE A HOAXER OR NOT.

So much worrying about pagan symbols! I suppose no one who posted negative things about these symbols celebrates Christ's birthday on December 25th, uses a lit up Christmast tree, or has the Easter bunny bring chocolate. The point is when the Christian church moved into pagan Europe (and even before) they took over pagan symbols and christianized them. It was very wise too not to destroy people's traditions completely, but redefine them. Symbols and traditions learned in childhood are the hardest things to give up.

--== MODERATORS ==--
SET UP RESTRICTIONS ON HOW LONG YOU HAVE TO BE A MEMBER BEFORE YOU CAN POST A NEW THREAD.
MAKE IT LIKE A MINIMUM OF 1 WEEK AND 30 POSTS.
BY THEN WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO DESCERN THE BASIC CHARACTER OF A PERSON ENOUGH TO TELL IF THEY ARE A HOAXER OR NOT.



I assure you... I am not a "Hoaxer". Just thought these images (having pagan origins) on a Christian church was curious and wanted to get other peoples input to add to what I've already found out. I thought that is what these forums were for... discussion... not whining.

In the picture you posted of the front of the church, you can also clearly see the V shape over the front doorway which represents the "tri-square" symbol of Freemasonry. This also adorns most Masonic Lodges in a similar fashion. You can even see how the stone was cut to make it seem like a ruler.

As for the Lutheran connection, I was brought up Lutheran and there were no such symbols in the church I attended. I imagine that you could go to plenty of Catholic churches and also find a lot of similar occult symbols hidden in them, basically any type of older church.

I think the church was just made by a mason perhaps, and he decided to sneak in all the little symbols as a joke, etc.

Originally posted by defcon5
I am a member of the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod and have been since I was born. I went to Lutheran private school and Catholic high school, so I am quite familiar with their symbols. First off there is no such word as Lutheranism, it’s simply called Lutheran.

A Lutheran is one who subscribes to Lutheranism, which is the body of divinity handed down by Luther. It is a word, but is rarely used except by theologians.

Second there is nothing Occult about the Lutheran Church, so if this is going to be a Christian Bashing thread then I will not bother beyond this post.

Actually, all religion consists of the occult. Without an occult basis, it wouldn't be a religion, but would instead be a philosophy, or some secular doctrine. An occult practice in Lutheranism, for example, is the consubstantiation of the Eucharist.

The original poster mentioned Rosicrucianism. It is a pretty safe bet to say the original Rosicrucians (i.e., those who published the Fama, Confessio, and Chymical Wedding) were Lutherans. This assumption is based on the following:

1. The Rosicrucian manifestoes were first published in Germany, where most people were either Lutheran or Calvinist.

2. The Rosicrucian Confessio calls the pope "antichrist", common for Lutheran of the 17th century when the Rosicrucian documents were composed and published.

3. The chief Rosicrucian emblem is extremely similar to Martin Luther's seal.

4. In his autobiography, Lutheran minister and theologian Johann Valentin Andreae listed "The Chymical Wedding of Christian Rosenkreutz" as one of his works. A large number of historians believe that Rev. Andreae also wrote the first two Rosicrucian manifestoes, or at least assisted in their writing.

As an aside, neither Rosicrucianism nor Freemasonry are "cults", unless you define "cult" as a group of people who share certain beliefs, which means that everyone belongs to some sort of cult.

Um why don't you just ask someone that knows about that church in your community?
That would be my first guess?

Originally posted by Mordecai81
I assure you... I am not a "Hoaxer". Just thought these images (having pagan origins) on a Christian church was curious and wanted to get other peoples input to add to what I've already found out. I thought that is what these forums were for... discussion... not whining.

sorry, that's more or less my default first post when a new member only several hours old makes a new thread about some fantastic idea, conspiracy, thought, or question
i have long asked the mods to place restrictions on the ability to open new threads by new members

nothing personal, but if you had spent some time digging through the site and reading other posts in the forums you probably could have solved your problem and answered your question yourself

this is the reason i beg of the mods to place a delay on new accounts
only like a week, but long enough to cause hoaxers to get bored and go somewhere else and for new members to actually look into their questions rather than just ask them and expect an answer
if you are forced to wait to ask your quesiton you might just do some research and find yourself the answer you were looking for
and if you find your answer somewhere else then bring your information to the forums

edit: accounts spelled wrong and "filtered" to aco#s because a "bad" word was found in the middle of the misspelling

[edit on 26-7-2006 by wondernut]

Wondernut:

You remind me of the guy angrily swerving through rush hour traffic this morning.

Man I dislike that guy.

Take a deep breath.

Originally posted by Essedarius
Wondernut:

You remind me of the guy angrily swerving through rush hour traffic this morning.

Man I dislike that guy.

Take a deep breath.

how is being rational and trying to prevent hoaxes by imposing a "new thread wait period" on new members at all like some jerk speeding thought traffic?
i am actually encouraging adding some rationaliity to these forums by forcing ignorant people who ask first and research second to research first or wait a week to ask.

nothing dramatic and nothing all restrictive on members over 1 week old
you don't give kids real guns till after they are mature enough to shoot them right
you shouldnt give new members the ability to create new threads till they know how to look up information to see if what they are about to post as "new" has been discussed somewhere else before

in addition to easing the repetitive "new" finds and questions by allowing new members time to research on their own, this concept of a wait time would prevent most hoaxes form being launched as the hoaxers would lose interest if they have to wait a week

i am actually quite calm and relaxed

if you read my posts they are rarely upset
perhapps your assusmption that i need to calm down is merely a reflection of yourself because you read my calm words as fast paced and agressive
seems like someone has latent personal issues they need to resolve...