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If the Shamans Can Get Along Why Can't We?

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posted on Jul, 21 2006 @ 12:21 AM
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If the Shamans Can Get Along Why Can't We?

If the shaman of the world, who all have different views can get along an worship even in the same building, why can't we? or our religeous factions?

I'm refering to a video in the post Fire on the Mountain: A Gathering Of Shaman

But really does anyone know why the 'western' version of christianity (which IMO, is the only version left now, after the 'inquisition') why they are so 'weird' and I'm refering to ..CRAZY!!! Christian Freaking Out.

What is so different about the commericial 'week-end' religeous experience as opposed to the jungle / 'nature' shaman religeous experience?




posted on Jul, 21 2006 @ 12:37 AM
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Most shamans of indigenous cultures spend the bulk of their time combatting "witchcraft" launched by evil neighbors or the tribe across the river. Most of the fees they collect are from curing witchcraft spells.

Mercea Eliade's "Shamanism" is a good background read of this phenomenon.

Michael Harner's pop-culture rip-off of shamanism really downplayed the presence of malevolent witchcraft in genuine shamanism, because it would seem goofy in a secular society. But even his "Way of the Shaman" makes occasional references.

So, no; Shamans can't really get along.

Technically, shamanism isn't part of religion---religion is about living in harmony with the gods.

On the other hand, shamanism is a body of knowledge, used by expert practitioners, to exert force in the unseen world. It isn't about worshiping gods, but rather about forcing the phenomenal world to bend to one's will, and do one's bidding.

It is as remote from religion, as any professional sport would be.

.



posted on Jul, 21 2006 @ 01:09 AM
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Originally posted by dr_strangecraft

Most shamans of indigenous cultures spend the bulk of their time combatting "witchcraft" launched by evil neighbors or the tribe across the river. Most of the fees they collect are from curing witchcraft spells.

Mercea Eliade's "Shamanism" is a good background read of this phenomenon.

Michael Harner's pop-culture rip-off of shamanism really downplayed the presence of malevolent witchcraft in genuine shamanism, because it would seem goofy in a secular society. But even his "Way of the Shaman" makes occasional references.

So, no; Shamans can't really get along.

Technically, shamanism isn't part of religion---religion is about living in harmony with the gods.

On the other hand, shamanism is a body of knowledge, used by expert practitioners, to exert force in the unseen world. It isn't about worshiping gods, but rather about forcing the phenomenal world to bend to one's will, and do one's bidding.

It is as remote from religion, as any professional sport would be.

.


actually shamanism is a practice... not a religeon.. I never said it was a religeon just said Shaman get along.. and I'm not talking about the shaman who use money per-se.. I'm talking about tribes and such that are way out of society ... sooo...
and you should watch the first video in the link I provided to see what I mean about shaman getting along.. you might wanna take your foot out of your mouth.



posted on Jul, 21 2006 @ 02:56 AM
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Excellent video! I had to stay up way past my bedtime to watch the whole thing! And I'm glad I did!

Why can't we get along? Well, first we must stop confusing Spirituality with Religion.

Then maybe we can can move away from having to establish heirarchies amoung belief systems. As the Dali Lama explained, my beliefs are the best for Me!, while your beliefs may be the best for You!

To "get along" we must start to focus on what makes us the same; only then can we begin to acquire the wisdom to embrace our diferences as a means to strengthen us as the Family we were created as.



posted on Jul, 21 2006 @ 08:37 AM
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Originally posted by dnero6911

actually shamanism is a practice... not a religeon.. I never said it was a religeon just said Shaman get along


But you made a negative comparison with a religion, "crazy western Christianity."




you might wanna take your foot out of your mouth.


You might want to learn about what shamanism actually is, in cultures where it is practiced, instead of relying on the globalist propaganda that edits out everything that westerners might consider unpleasant.

If you'd like to talk about how shamans get along, maybe you could explain to me the emnity between Navajo and Hopi shamans, who spend a lot of their efforts removing curses placed on their communities by the other tribe.

Or how about the Jivari in South America, who say the precisely same things with regard to their own neighbors.

As a matter of fact, JUST LIKE IN WESTERN FOLKLORE, most folk healers around the planet are obsessed with undoing the effects of what they claim is malevolent witchcraft in their communities, caused by their spiteful neighbors.

Whether you go to a curanduro in Mexico, or a Navajo sandpainter, a Saami spirit-wrestler, or a shaman in the Tungus of central Asia, you will get told that your illness is caused by a witch trying to poison you, or by the fact that you've offended the tribal protector-spirits, i.e., "gods."

Foot in mouth, indeed.
.



posted on Jul, 21 2006 @ 06:43 PM
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Originally posted by dr_strangecraft


Foot in mouth, indeed.
.


I know that there are tribes that do fight, I'm not that naive... I was talking about that video, which is why I placed it in the thread.. so... indeed foot in mouth, because your talking about something unrelated to what I was talking about, which is the shaman the dali llama(sp?) had come together... but okay, lets talk about people fighting...



posted on Jul, 21 2006 @ 10:03 PM
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Jesus and the Buddha

Jesus and the Buddha
Standing hand in hand
Both bringing rays of hope
To all foreign lands
Humbly teaching truth,
Charity, peace, and wisdom
Meant for each of us
No matter where we're from
So why can't the leaders
Of this confused world
See there is no need
For the stones that we all hurl?




posted on Jul, 22 2006 @ 05:53 AM
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Religious Rivalries

Dear Children (and believe us, that's all of you), We consider ourselves pretty patient folks. For instance, look at the Grand Canyon. It took millions of years to get it right
We've been patient through your fashions, civilizations, wars and schemes.

We want to let you know about some of the things that are starting to tick Us off.

First of all, your religious rivalries are driving Us up a wall. Enough already! Let's get one thing straight: These are YOUR religions, not Ours. We're beyond them all. Every one of your religions claims there is only one of Us (which by the way, is absolutely true). And each claims its scriptures were written personally by us, and that all the other scriptures are man-made. How do We even begin to put a stop to such complicated nonsense?

Okay, listen up now. We're your Father AND Mother, and We don't play favorites among Our children.

Also, We hate to break it to you, but We don't write. Our longhand is awful, and We've always been more of "doers" anyway. So, ALL of your books, including those Bibles, were written by men and women. They were inspired, remarkable people, but they also made mistakes here and there. We made sure of that so that you would never trust a written word more than your own living heart.
You see, one human being to Us, even a bum on the street, is worth more than all the Holy Books in the world. That's just the kind of folks we are. Our spirit is not a historical thing. It's alive right here, right now, as fresh as your next breath.
.
Holy books and religious rites are sacred and powerful, but not more so than the least of you. They were only meant to steer you in the right direction, not to keep you arguing with each other, and certainly not to keep you from trusting your own personal connection with Us.

Which brings Us to Our next point about your nonsense; you act like We need you and your religions to stick up for Us or "win souls" for Our sake. Please, don't do Us any favors. We can stand quite well on our own, thank you. We don't need you to defend Us, and We don't need constant credit. We just want you to be good to each other.

The thing is, We want you to stop thinking of religion as some sort of loyalty pledge to Us.
The true purpose of your religion is so that YOU can become more aware of Us, not the other way around. Believe Us, We know you already. We know what's in each of your hearts, and We love you with no strings attached.
Lighten up and enjoy Us. That's what religion is best for.

What you seem to forget is how mysterious We are.
You look at the petty differences in your Scriptures and say, "Well, if THIS is the truth, then THAT can't be!" But instead of trying to figure out Our Paradoxes and Unfathomable Nature, which by the way, you NEVER will, why not open your hearts to the simple common threads in all religions.
You know what We're talking about. Love and respect everyone. Be kind, even when life is scary or confusing. Take courage and be of good cheer, for We are always with you. Learn how to be quiet, so you can hear Our still, small voice. (We don't like to shout).

Leave the world a better place by living your life with dignity and gracefulness, for you are Our Own Children. Hold back nothing from life, for the parts of you that can die surely will, and the parts that can't, won't.

Simple stuff. Why do you keep making it so complicated? It's like you're always looking for an excuse to be upset. And We're very tired of being your main excuse. Do you think We care whether you call Us: Yahweh, Jehovah, Allah, Diana, Wakantonka, Brahma, Cerridwen, Father, Mother, God, Goddess or even the Void of Nirvana? Do you think We care which of Our special children you feel closest to, Jesus, Mary, Buddha, Krishna, Gerald, Mohammed or any of the others? You can call Us and Our Special Ones any name you choose, if only you would go about Our business of loving one another as We love you. How can you keep neglecting something so simple?

We're not telling you to abandon your religions. Enjoy your religions, honor them, and learn from them, just as you should enjoy, honor, and learn from your parents.
Know that Our Special Children, the ones that your religions revolve around, all live in the same place, (Our heart), and they get along perfectly, We assure you.

The clergy must stop creating a myth of sibling rivalry where there is none. Our blessed children of Earth, the world has grown too small for your pervasive religious bigotries and confusion. The whole planet is connected by air travel, satellite dishes, telephones, fax machines, rock concerts, diseases, and mutual needs and concerns.
Get with the program! If you really want to help, then commit yourselves to figuring out how to feed your hungry, clothe your naked, protect your abused, and shelter your poor. And just as importantly, make your own everyday life a shining example of kindness and good humor. We've given you all the resources you need, if only you abandon your fear of each other and begin living, loving and laughing together.

We're not really ticked off. We just wanted to grab your attention because We hate to see you suffer.

In Perfect Love and Perfect Trust,

Us



posted on Jul, 22 2006 @ 07:02 AM
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Originally posted by dnero6911

If the Shamans Can Get Along Why Can't We?

If the shaman of the world, who all have different views can get along
an worship even in the same building, why can't we?


it possibly because the shamans from way different lands and cultures
have a common worldview,

would you expect a gathering of shamans and lets say green berets
to have the same kind of cordial & altruistic flavor? i think not

shaman 'walk' in both the natural & the spirit worlds, their rituals
and methods of visions & healings & powers might vary, but the
fundamental certainty of interacting with the spirit world for the
benefit of our physical lives is far more powerful than divisivness.

betcha, after the gathering in the French Alps, each participant went home
withe bittersweet mental rumblings about the experience & each other.
(i could only hold my attention for 14-15 minutes of the google video...
so, keep that in mind in evaluating this reply post.)



posted on Aug, 1 2006 @ 09:05 AM
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~~

i looked thru 10 pages & didn't find any Shaman related topics other than this one.

so, if you'ld like to 'see' some of the inner mind works of shamans
and the non-ordinary realities they are immersed in, check out this link;

www.metatech.org...
its 118K big, Credo Mutwa was 80 years old in this 1999 free-thought interview.

then there is a 1hr 41 min audio link, made 25 June 2005, talking to David Icke
www.bibliotecapleyades.net...
(this link came from wikipedia page)

~~~~~~~~~~

bundled all together, one might conclude that shamans can get together pretty well because they all have sizeable pieces of the non-ordinary reality/ larger picture at their fingertips....and sharing & divulging their own pieces of these
hidden realms is a positive thing for each shaman & tradition.......as they go about
healing and performing duties as a sage for their people.



posted on Aug, 2 2006 @ 04:13 AM
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Originally posted by St Udio
~~

i looked thru 10 pages & didn't find any Shaman related topics other than this one.

so, if you'ld like to 'see' some of the inner mind works of shamans
and the non-ordinary realities they are immersed in, check out this link;

www.metatech.org...
its 118K big, Credo Mutwa was 80 years old in this 1999 free-thought interview.

then there is a 1hr 41 min audio link, made 25 June 2005, talking to David Icke
www.bibliotecapleyades.net...
(this link came from wikipedia page)

~~~~~~~~~~

bundled all together, one might conclude that shamans can get together pretty well because they all have sizeable pieces of the non-ordinary reality/ larger picture at their fingertips....and sharing & divulging their own pieces of these
hidden realms is a positive thing for each shaman & tradition.......as they go about
healing and performing duties as a sage for their people.


I really appreciate your reply... a good contribution..

I like your statement about non-ordinary reality. What I percieve non-ordinary reality to be.. (simplified) is simply being in your own creation, your own world out of normal societal ideals and concepts, (physics etc..)[not quantum physics].. but I personally like Carlos Castenada, Don Genaro and Don Juan... and people who have witnessed spirits coming out of mountains and people jumping off of cliffs and never hitting bottom and other such stories. I only see a conflict when these shaman try to put certainty or try to define something when it becomes a dispute or arguement,.. the one person in the video way above in the first post, said that we need to just understand that all of our basis is love in one way or another and realize that christianity is alright for christians and buddhism is good for buddhists, etc... because that is what we have choose and as long as we actually follow our religeon etc... we will all (if its the 'right' religeon) have a common theme, and the defining attribute that makes the religeon the 'right' one is LOVE... apparently.. if you've done your homework. (I don't mean anyone personally by the words, YOU, and YOUR)

[edit on 2/8/06 by dnero6911]



posted on Aug, 2 2006 @ 04:55 AM
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most shamans are from indigenous cultures, they really don't "own" much, so they don't have that much to fight over???

but then, have western men come in and enforce their "western culture" for oil, or timber or whatever, and well, they do tend to fight..



posted on Aug, 2 2006 @ 07:11 AM
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People have been fighting since the dawn of time. The Greeks and Romans have less than we do; the plains Indian tribes had practically NO material property, and fought each other constantly, for "honor." It's part of human nature, independent of material wealth. Poor people are just and argumentative or violence-prone as the wealthy. People are "naturally" that way, until they make the choice to mature.



posted on Aug, 2 2006 @ 04:39 PM
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Originally posted by dawnstar
most shamans are from indigenous cultures, they really don't "own" much, so they don't have that much to fight over???

but then, have western men come in and enforce their "western culture" for oil, or timber or whatever, and well, they do tend to fight..


What they do fight for, is land...

the unfortunate thing is, is most indigenous peoples seem to some-what welcome white-man... not so much white-man, but what white-man 'can' bring, like better roads, better tools... some indigenous tribes have 'western' shovels and other western tools they enjoy and wish they had more... I can understand the desire for these things, but unfortunately what comes with it, is pure chaos for them.



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