Originally posted by centurion1211
Also notice how world media covers every injury received in lebanon and gaza, down to the splinter level. Where is the equal coverage of the victims of the over 1,000 rockets fired at Israeli civilians?????

[edit on 7/19/2006 by centurion1211]

I dont know about american or european news, i have only seen the Australian's national news. They have been fairly equal which civilian deaths on both side, they would report on the attacks on lebanon, them a second report about rocket attacks on israel. And honestly everyone is saying that lebanon is getting to much news coverage, yeah since they have more civilians dieing each day than israel does. While i remember the stats from the first few days when this started. 8 israeli civilians compared to 100 lebanese civilian deaths, when there are 10 times the amount of civilian casulties i think they do deserve more news coverage. While they have shown multiple times on the news israeli bomb alarms going off and showing people scramble everywhere.
I think that you look look at the news pictures abit closer and read in between the lines, look at the damage the lebanese rockets cause, a few holes in houses, and a tran station. Yet look at the streets of southern beirut, it looks like a full blown war zone. Yet i remember seeing a woman in Haifa walking her dog and then running because of a millise attack warning. Do you see any lebanese walking dogs around?

The point im trying to make is, yes isreal may be under attack from rockets, but they do absolutely nothing compared to what the IDF are doing to lebanon. I feel sorry for all civilians, but since lebenon does have, and will have more innocents die, my heart does go out to lebenon first. When a rocket attack happens in Haifa, the ambulence can acturly get to the scene, while in lebanon most of the vital infastucture is destroyed, preventing the saving of civililan lives. Now hezzbolla we know are firing rockets randomly into israel, they have no intended target. Yet the IDF are surpose to be pinpoint in their actions, since they have one of the best air forces in the world, yet more civilians have died, and they have targeted school (yes its school holidays so no children were there) but still after the end of this war where will the children go to school? Now u can say all you want that hezzbolla was inside the school etc. But still it doesnt man u airstrike it, soft civilian targets like that should of been left untill last, and taking by ground forces rather than just blowing it all up.


I do not salute israel for their tactics, i will not salute anyone who search for destruction. The only way i would salute israel is when this is all over, that they rebuild lebanon, as good or even better than they have built their own citites.

Good post Wang.

I still say that by centuries end the notion of an Jewish state will become a quaint anachronism, not because they will be pushed into the sea by conquoring Arab countries but because it will be outbred into ilrelevance by their own Arab population, not to mention the populations of the west bank and gaza. The new state that will develop out of the ashes will incorporate both Israel and Palestine, in short forming the state that the Palestinians of the early 20th century were trying to form out of the ashes of the ottoman empire, when it was aborted by the creation of Israel by European guilt. The new state will surely see these wars and battles for what they are, spasms of Ignorance, cruelity and short sightedness, on all sides.

Israel gets my praise. They have done an excellent job against the terrorists of Hezbollah. As an American I can say that I am glad we have them as an ally.

Originally posted by wang
The point im trying to make is, yes isreal may be under attack from rockets, but they do absolutely nothing compared to what the IDF are doing to lebanon. I feel sorry for all civilians, but since lebenon does have, and will have more innocents die, my heart does go out to lebenon first. When a rocket attack happens in Haifa, the ambulence can acturly get to the scene, while in lebanon most of the vital infastucture is destroyed, preventing the saving of civililan lives. Now hezzbolla we know are firing rockets randomly into israel, they have no intended target. Yet the IDF are surpose to be pinpoint in their actions, since they have one of the best air forces in the world, yet more civilians have died, and they have targeted school (yes its school holidays so no children were there) but still after the end of this war where will the children go to school? Now u can say all you want that hezzbolla was inside the school etc. But still it doesnt man u airstrike it, soft civilian targets like that should of been left untill last, and taking by ground forces rather than just blowing it all up.

Warfare should be troops fighting troops. That is impossible to do when one side:

*Indiscriminately fires inaccurate rockets (not missiles) at a civilian populace

*Hides it's "troops" and it's weaponry among the civilian populace.

It is unfortunate that civilians are killed, but there is no other way of rooting out an enemy that works among the civilian populace. It might be done more cleanly, but the time needed to do so would increase exponentially and results would be questionable.

Remember Resolution 1559. Had it been followed, this would not be happening.

Hezbollah has been getting away with terrorism for many years. Now that they face annihilation, they are quick to condemn civilian deaths as barbaric. Even their sponsors are now calling for a cease fire.

But I do not think that Israel can be persuaded to stop this time until the job is complete.

Do not interpret this as an endorsement of civilian casualties. I already said they were unfortunate.

Originally posted by laiguana
Israel gets my praise. They have done an excellent job against the terrorists of Hezbollah. As an American I can say that I am glad we have them as an ally.

Yeah those nasty canadian Hizbollaheans and those brazilian hizbollah people too. Glad they took care of them for us. Im proud that we gave them the power to kill every single one of those other 300 possible Hizbollah recruits too. The Hizbollah bridges (all 20 of them) The Hizbollah Highways, The Hizbollah Mosque,The Hizbollah Electric Company, The Port Of Hizbollah, The Hizbollah Food supply trucks, The Hizbollah Water Drilling company trucks, The Hizbollah barracks camoflouged as Lebanese army barracks and those Hizbollah houses and Hizbollah buildings wiped out. The 2 Hizbollah guys they actually got was outstanding marksmenship! I was especially proud of that one.

People seem to be completely missing the point and from what I'm reading it seems as though it's out of willful ignorance.

I wish people would read up on 'war' in general. Then they'd know that if you fly that many sorties against an enemy that hides amongst the civilian population, and come away with only 300 civilian deaths...that is a truly amazing feat. It means they're purposely trying to avoid civilian deaths. With the leaflets also - Have you seen Hezbollah warning Iraelies to get in a safe place? No. That's because they're TRYING to kill civilians.


If Lebanon isn't rebuilt, Israel won't be to blame. You'll only have yourselves and the international community to blame. Let's see if all this "concern" translates into aid money.
For now though, Israel is indeed doing a good job against a foe who's only goal is to wipe them off the face of the earth, a foe who is backed by other countries who want the same. It's unfortunate that this foe is in a country who hates them probably just as much as the Israelis and they really can't do anything about it, but....that's the situation.....

Yeah salute to Israel for it,s accurate bombing..

300 dead for two hezbollah.Just think,only another 75,000 civillians dead to get the estimated 500 active terrorists

How many more terrorists will be initiated using these tactics?
THAT is the big question.

If only one person from every family who will suffer losses decides to fight back then we have a problem.An inexhaustable supply of fresh recruits

I think I should clarify the issue on what Israel should be saluted for:

* Hezbullah fires rockets from civilian locations and Israel DOES not intercept the launchers out of fear of hitting civilians.

* Hezbullah rocket attacks civilians indiscriminantly and Israel responds in a measured manner where out of more than 2000 sorties 300 civilians are killed when these numbers are numbers provided by Lebanon and Hezbullah and are highly inaccurate.


Regarding the number of casualties:
My guess is more were killed in general but the civilian dead are less than those publicized - Meaning that much more Hizbullah fighters and combatants were killed.

What an appauling premis for a thread.

Salute the bombing and slaughter of innocent people (I don't think a small girl still holding her blue pyjamas as she lies dead on the street voted Hezbollah into power, and in the words of Robert Fisk "Not an unknown warrior, but an unknown child.") in order to kill a few militants!

While you're at it, praising such brainstorms of tactical genius, why don't you include the insurgents of Iraq in your all encompassing salute of butchery. I'm sure driving a minibus full of explosives into a queue of people trying to get a job scares the $*!£ out everyone who doesn't get torn to ribbons.

Very sad indeed.

Yeah right 300+ dead to 30....real accurate...deep concern for civilians. S...U...R....E!!!

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi


The terrorist motivation is there because terrorists are fed lies and hate from the moment they are born.

change terrorist to Israeli and the statement will work both ways

Hamas's charter refers to the Protocols of the Elders of Zion as historical fact when in reality it is an anti-Jewish fraud - But their people demonize the Jews so the hate is there whether Israel acts or not.

Sounds a lot like your Blood Libel link you posted about them LOL

Iran preaches the Holocaust Hoax theory which is oviously a lie (I know too many holocaust survivors who lost their entire family for this to be true) and poisons the mind of its people so here again the hate is there whether Israel acts or not.

Also sounds familiar to your peoples theory that Palestinians never existed before 1948 and that it was all a concoction by the arabs. The difference is that You can get arrested in some countries for having a different opinion in regards to the Holocaust and since its only Palestinians you can state history as being any way you like it to be without fear of arrest or being labeled with a negative name.

So the hate is there.

yeah it is..not just from them though..look within. A few of your friends here got pretty upset when people here didn't agree with them. They gave you the big thumbs up and commended you for your support of israel. I was told I should go to lebanon so I could fight and get killed LOL Why is that? Is it because they love the Arabs? Don't think so. I think they hate anyone who does not agree with them...not just arabs. Thats even worse..its dangerous in my opinion.

What also flames the war is Fundamentalism in Islam which condones killing Jews on the political issue of the existance of Israel as a Jewish country.

Those aint just flame broiled burgers sizzlin in Beirut..those are arabs. I guess its ok though that Jewish fundamentalism condones that ? Even though 300 of them had nothing to do with your soldiers that were taken and no proof that they even supported Hizbollah.

Hey anyway it was fun reading the hypocrisies. If it makes you feel just slightly better or more in the right, then more power to ya.




[edit on 20-7-2006 by ThePieMaN]

[edit on 20-7-2006 by ThePieMaN]

Originally posted by ThePieMaN
Even though 300 of them had nothing to do with your soldiers that were taken and no proof that they even supported Hizbollah.

Hey anyway it was fun reading the hypocrisies. If it makes you feel just slightly better or more in the right, then more power to ya.

In our quest to rid the world of the Nazis during WW2, THOUSANDS of innocent people died. Tens of thousands even. Do you still support the allies taking out the Nazis?

pieman,
No-one claims that Palestinians did not exist before 1948. The claim is that Palestinians as a nation never existed. It was even recorded that Palestinians themselves considered themselves Syrians rather than Palestinians. Pro-Israeli 'Palestinians' even argued that the Palestinian nation was 'coined' in 1967.
Israel is well aware that Mulsim, Christians as well as Jews lived on the land prior to 1948.
What upsets me is the utter ignorance displayed by some people.

Regarding the comments given to you on this forum was not given out of hate - It was given out of frustration that although we (Israelis) are targetted for the sole reason that we are Jewish and this is understood, condoned and explained away in the most assenine manner by people who have no clue. That is upsetting.

Pieman your responses just prove that you have no clue and even when it is explained to you you have no desire to understand.

Even though 300 of them had nothing to do with your soldiers that were taken and no proof that they even supported Hizbollah

Again I will repeat by saying that that is a number provided by Lebanon and Hezbullah. That number is probably inaccurate and probably a large chunk are combatants.
Again I will repeat - Hizbullah uses civilians as human shield in southern Lebanon, the village of Maroun Aras Israel did not bomb the village although rocket attacks and sniper attacks emminated from the village. Today and yesterday Israel took casualties because they refused to bomb the village although villagers were warned to leave. Today Israeli troops entered the village and found that the mosque was packed with rockets, weapons, bombs, ammunition, etc. Troops were then ambushed Israeli wounded troops could not leave the area because of the attacks from the village eventually specific locations in the village were shelled.

At the end of the day 10 groups of Hezbullah fiighters were killed as well as a commander and 2 control centers with around 10 injured troops.

Now Lebanon will say that those killed are civilians.
This is the type of conflict Israel is up against in the middle east.

Arabs attack civilian and military targets from residential areas (against international law) and Israel attempts to decrease the civilain loss to a minimum so again. . . ISRAEL SHOULD BE SALUTED

Originally posted by wang
I do not salute israel for their tactics, i will not salute anyone who search for destruction. The only way i would salute israel is when this is all over, that they rebuild lebanon, as good or even better than they have built their own citites.

That will only happen if they get support fromother Arab countries like Egypt and Syria...or even American help, but the Arab countried would be better...a "like calls to like" thing. If Iran wants to save any face, they will do their best to make sure Israel doesn't rebuild the area...and pin the results of their asinine behavior right back on Israel. You can win all the battles but still lose the war: ref:Vietnam.

I take my hat off to Israel.

Lets give the bleeding heart terrorist sympathisers round here a free vacation to Israel for a few months and make them live with the constant threat of your house being blown to pieces by some dirty fundamentalist with a rocket launcher.

Then we'll see what their attitude is.

Frankly if terrorists from Australia's neighbours (New Zealand, Indonesia- I know they are far away but bear with me) started attacking Australian citizens, cities or armed forces ON OUR OWN SOIL, I would be disgusted if the government did NOT retaliate to remove the threat.

All of the people here criticising Israels actions need to ask yourself - what would YOU expect of your government if YOU were in the same situation as the Israeli citizens?

Would you want your government to pussyfoot around trying to negotiate prisoner transfers with a group of people who have stated numerous times that they do not recognise your countrys sovereignty? Try to talk to people who have no regard for the lives of you or you fellow countrymen?

Or would you expect your government to do everything in their power to neutralise the threat and to stop people from attacking your homes and your cities?

Yes it is sad that civilians in Lebanon are being killed by the Israeli air strikes. I feel sick in my stomach every time I see pictures on the news of children covered in blood, or women crying because their families have been killed. The sad fact of the matter is that the Lebanese government is not doing enough to control groups like Hezbollah (spelling?) and not doing enough to prevent them from carrying out attacks on innocent citizens of a neighbouring sovereign nation.

If the Lebanese people or their government want the Israeli offensive to stop they should prove that they are capable of controlling the terrorists within their own country. Or they could provide intelligence on the locations of these terrorists and their weapon caches so the Israeli military could more effectively target them.

If they are unwilling to help protect innocent civilians in Israel that are under attack from terrorists on their own soil, they can hardly cry foul when Israel fights back and does their absolute best to minimize civilian casualties while trying to defend their country.

/rant off

If I thout that killing every civilian in that country would keep Israel safe, I would be all for nuculear bombing. We already know that you can wipe out 100x as many civilians with one well aimed attack, if you want to run up points for civilian kills.