Salute Israel for their tactics

niteboy82,

In war there is very little to celebrate. It comes down to both sides killing another. What you don't see is Hezbullah trying to make an effort NOT to hit civilians and you don;t see Israel hiding behind civilians.
You do see Israeli soldiers taking immense dangers upon themselves in order to minimize civilian casualties and Hezbullah taking advantage of this. In addition Hezbullah uses civilain infrastructures to hide their weapons that are used against civilians thereby using civilians as a shield.

Israel, although fighting a disgraceful enemy still tries to fight 'by the rules'. At times these rules are violated by both sides. With Israel it occurs occasionally , with Hezbullah it occurs constantly. They both hide in civilian locations and fire weapons from it while their weapons are aimed at residential areas inside Israel.

ANY WHICH WAY YOU LOOK AT IT ISRAEL IS WAY ABOVE ITS ARAB COUNTERPARTS IN RULES OF ENGAGEMENT.

Minimize civilian casualities? 750 vs 51...the numbers tell a different story all together.

JM, how many bombers does Hez have? How many tanks? How much state of the art munitions? For that fact how many fighters?

Originally posted by ThePieMaN

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi
It is about the return of 3 soldiers captured for defending their border. That was thier 'sin'.

Who punishes Israel when they 'sin' and penetrate borders and kidnap Politicians they deem a threat to Israel? Or even civilians like Mordechai Vanunnu on different continents?

It is also about providing Lebanon the freedom that they are entitled to with all its privileges and obligations (obligations being to safegaurd the borders and disarm militias and gangs).
It is about dismantling the Iranian/Syrian war machine (Hizbullah) who acts under the orders of those countries and not the country they claim to serve (Lebanon).

Gee thanks for providing the Lebanese with the freedom that they had before you ever even arrived.
Now who will provide the freedom in Israel for the oppressed there if you are busy freeing other countries? You should stay home and fix the plumbing because its leaking all over your floor.

God punishes Israel when they sin. thats the reason for the Holocaust. Also why do you think Sharon is outta the way now? he is being punished by God for giving up HIS land. This war right now is a way of God saying get back what was taken wrongfully from you.

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi
ANY WHICH WAY YOU LOOK AT IT ISRAEL IS WAY ABOVE ITS ARAB COUNTERPARTS IN RULES OF ENGAGEMENT.

And I hold my Nintedo controller upside down, so I am sure that I would be guilty of cheating when playing 1 vs 1.

That's the type of logic that your response makes to me. The numbers don't lie, yet you expect people to believe that Israel has such a high regard of life that they "must do it and kill who they kill because war ain't pretty"? No war is not pretty, but neither is a country with the upper hand who continues to fire missiles killing women and children in such vast numbers. There is no good side. I don't see how this is so hard for you to grasp.

A guy in Beirut said it best, even though it isn't his original quote, "an eye for an eye leaves the world blind."

And I guess when there is nothing left of Lebanon, the Israeli gov't can come out of the woodworks and cheer on their job well done. Then there will be a leader of Hezbollah somewhere else calling for a renewed jihad against Israel. The cycle will continue, and the only thing to show for the past battles will be death on each side.

Yeah, great job Israel and Hezbollah, through the deaths of many neither have accomplished anything worth those lives.

Originally posted by Snazuolu


God punishes Israel when they sin. thats the reason for the Holocaust. Also why do you think Sharon is outta the way now? he is being punished by God for giving up HIS land. This war right now is a way of God saying get back what was taken wrongfully from you.

Thanks for the religious lesson. Nice theory, but what if god decides Israel should lose the war?

Originally posted by Snazuolu
God punishes Israel when they sin. thats the reason for the Holocaust. Also why do you think Sharon is outta the way now? he is being punished by God for giving up HIS land. This war right now is a way of God saying get back what was taken wrongfully from you.

And this, ladies and gentleman, is the other side clearly visible for all to see. The other side that shows the equivalence of the evils perpetrated by the Israel gov't. No side is right, and this just proves my point more.

That's the reason for the Holocaust?!? That is disgusting and I am very sorry for you and hope that your God can look at what you say lightly upon your judgement.

I don't see "an eye for an eye" here. I see "an arm for a hand". And both end up bleeding. :shk:

Originally posted by intrepid
I don't see "an eye for an eye" here. I see "an arm for a hand". And both end up bleeding. :shk:

Well said, and more appropriate. Sad that we have to even think of any of this. Just a shame.

Hmmm, didn't God say to Moses "thou shalt not kill" ?
Maybe they didn't read the appendix on the second page stating : "and thou shalt not mass-murder, take land by force, use banished weapons..."

Originally posted by intrepid
JM, how many bombers does Hez have? How many tanks? How much state of the art munitions? For that fact how many fighters?

Does that justify rocketing Israeli cities?
Hezbullah has state-of-the art munitions. Remember they struck an Israeli corvette with an Iranian missile. They also have state-of-the-art AT rockets.

Hezbullah has around 2000 fighters (estimated since the numbers are unknown) but what they have is 2 states sponsoring them (excluding Lebanon which gives them freedom of action) which includes weapons, training and intelligence. They have assistance from Mujhadin fighters and coordination between terrorist organizations.

Hezbullah pulled of the buenos Aires bombing of the Israeli embassy with the assistance of Iran.

Granted they are not a regular army although they do have ranks and uniforms. They are guerilla fighters.

Not numbers, weapons or technology or lack of it provides justification for targetting civilians.

Originally posted by niteboy82

Originally posted by intrepid
I don't see "an eye for an eye" here. I see "an arm for a hand". And both end up bleeding. :shk:

Well said, and more appropriate. Sad that we have to even think of any of this. Just a shame.

The ideology here is - after 40+ Hezbullah attacks that were proportionately responded to here is a response to an attack after which Hezbullah and Lebanon will think twice before repeating.

It is just acting like a roman in rome. And if you do not know of Rome or the Romans you'll have a tough time understanding.

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi

neformore,

The house that was struck by an IDF missile 7 hours before it collapsed. This itself raises a few questions.

Show me more sources than a pro-Israeli propaganda site for this and I'll consider the possibility.

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi
Hezbullah has around 2000 fighters (estimated since the numbers are unknown) but what they have is 2 states sponsoring them...

Interesting that your precious IDF war machine is loosing a war to a bunch of poorly equiped, lower numbers, rag tag "terrorists".
And they have to heal their egos by bombing a house full of civilians. Most of them children.

Are you still proud of them?

Originally posted by Snazuolu
This war right now is a way of God saying get back what was taken wrongfully from you.

Well lots of people knew it was not about Kidnapped soldiers. Its obvious that they want land, water and oil. Nothing to do with God though. How will you feel later when you realize you have been used for your beliefs in order to conquer?

Originally posted by intrepid
I don't see "an eye for an eye" here. I see "an arm for a hand".

Eye for an eye is a matter of civil jurisprudence, its an internal rule to decide how to punish a criminal, let the punishment for the breaking of a law fit the crime.

By that standard, israel is doing the right thing, its giving war in exchange for war.

But thats irrelevant, this isn't civil litigation, its war. Once war starts, the only acceptable option is to win, Israel can't stop fighting merely because the lebanese suffer.

Originally posted by Nygdan
Eye for an eye is a matter of civil jurisprudence, its an internal rule to decide how to punish a criminal, let the punishment for the breaking of a law fit the crime.
By that standard, israel is doing the right thing, its giving war in exchange for war.

Sorry, but this is idiotic.

The main principle in Lex Talionis is proportionate punishment. And when you execute punishment even in radical religions in biblical sense, it calls for leniency.
The others, more moderate religions they call for turning the other cheek or when you seek retribution you just add to your karmic debt. Mahatma Gandhi said it very well. "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth and the whole world would soon be blind and toothless."
But we are living in a 21st century. And since we are thinking or we want to believe that we are so developed and civilized, we should embrace pozitive legislature or golden rule of ethics.

Now when we look Israel's responce, we can hardly find some sort of proportionality.

And when I hear the words "It is war" and they are used as an excuse for the actions of any side in any conflict I feel that I'm gonna loose my lunch. Again.

War should be avoided. We should not look for an excuse to wage it.

Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by intrepid
I don't see "an eye for an eye" here. I see "an arm for a hand".

Eye for an eye is a matter of civil jurisprudence, its an internal rule to decide how to punish a criminal, let the punishment for the breaking of a law fit the crime.

By that standard, israel is doing the right thing, its giving war in exchange for war.

But thats irrelevant, this isn't civil litigation, its war. Once war starts, the only acceptable option is to win, Israel can't stop fighting merely because the lebanese suffer.

There has been no formal declaration of war. How then, can it be one?

Quite how you define it other than that is a matter of wordplay. It is still grossly dispropportionate.

Originally posted by Mdv2
Thanks for the religious lesson. Nice theory, but what if god decides Israel should lose the war?

Given the armament of Israel, especially their Air Force of F-16's, I doubt God has much say in it at all.

It's just pathetic that terrorist organizations like Hezbollah will take on a vastly superior military force (out of pure hatred, not bravery) and rather than having the balls to put up a good fight they just hide behind their civilian population and run crying to the media all the time.

There's more bravery in the cuticle of just one man that charged Omaha Beach on D-day than there is in all of Hezbollah put together.

That said, you want to talk about civilian casualties, read up on WWII.

Pokey Oats

Originally posted by ThePieMaN
Nothing to do with God though. How will you feel later when you realize you have been used for your beliefs in order to conquer?

What nationality are you then?