Bush Vetoes Bill Expanding Funding of Embryonic Stem-Cell Research

Originally posted by zappafan1
Bush relied on reports from the entire medical community, of which your references are a very minor percentage.

Only a minor percentage of the medical community is involved in stem cell research, so that is not surprising. It makes no sense to rely on reports from members of the medical community that have no expertise in stem cell research. General practicians, podiatrists, dentists and other types of doctors are part of the medical community, but that does not give them any qualifications in the area of stem cell research.

Popular ignorance is not a substitute for knowledge, no matter how fervently you insist otherwise.

What I'm reading here confuses me. No one is suggesting harvesting embryonic stem cells and using them as a therapy (i.e., injecting them into people to treat a disease). What's at issue is the ability to use stem cells in research. Embryonic stem cells have the unique property of being differentially neutral. That is, they develop into different specialized tissues depending on what cells (biochemicals) they come in contact with. Researchers are trying to understand this mechanism of differentiation. (For example, if they are cultured in proximity with certain neural cells they will begin to develop into kidney tissue. Some mechanism related to the presence of this neural tissue 'programs' the stem cells to develop into kidney tissue.)

When a woman goes to a fertility clinic, for example, egg cells are removed from her, combined with sperm in a 'dish' (in vitro) and allowed to begin to divide into a cluster of cells (assuming the fertilization works). This cell cluster is then implanted into the woman's uterine wall and will hopefully develop into a fetus. Because the process is somewhat hit-or-miss a number of eggs are fertilized and frozen so they will be available in case the first implant fails. All these extra fertilized eggs (embryos) are discarded once the woman is pregnant. Rather than just discarding these embryos researches want to use them for research. Apparently washing them down the sink is ok but using them for research is not. Additionally, the blood found in the umbilical cord and placenta (cord blood) is also rich in embryonic stem cells. After a woman gives birth the umbilical cord and placenta are collected and destroyed at the hospital although some are sold to pharmaceutical companies for the extraction of certain substances (not as common today as it was several years ago).

Members of the U.S. Congress were liberal with the facts of stem-cell science this week -- their political leanings seemed not to matter much.

The Senate passed the Stem Cell Research Enhancement Act (HR810), allowing federal funding of embryonic stem-cell research using embryos that would otherwise be discarded at fertility clinics. On Wednesday, President Bush promptly vetoed the bill as promised.

Stem-cell science is complicated and it's easy to imagine how tempting it must be for legislators to expect to get away with fabrications, misrepresentations and inaccuracies. But we're not going to let them. Here are the top 10 most egregious manipulations of the truth put forth in Congress on July 17 and 18 during stem-cell research discussions.
Wired: The Top 10 List

This article provides a great example of why government does not belong in the debate about stem cell research. The legislators quoted in this article arent even sufficently competent to discuss the topic in laymens terms, let alone competent to make to pass laws intended to control stem cell research.
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posted by: df1

This article provides a great example of why government does not belong in the debate about stem cell research. The legislators quoted in this article arent even sufficently competent to discuss the topic in laymens terms, let alone competent to make to pass laws intended to control stem cell research.

REPLY: .... and you are so ingrained with knowledge to make such a judgement? Could you link to your thesis on the subject?

As for my previous post, I mistakenly assumed you would know I meant the medical community related to the subject matter.

Originally posted by zappafan1
REPLY: .... and you are so ingrained with knowledge to make such a judgement? Could you link to your thesis on the subject?

This thread is not about me.

I meant the medical community related to the subject matter.

Thank you for the clarification.

Im pleased to see the states picking up the ball on this area of stem cell research in the face of the presidents veto. The question that remains is whether the president will actively try to trash these state initiatives. The federal government showed no reluctance to overrule the people of california on the affirmative referendum for medical marijuana and I expect that the states will be overruled by the federal thugs again.

Some States Continue Support Of Embryonic Stem Cell Research
President Bush’s veto of a measure to expand federal funding of embryonic stem cell research leaves a handful of states on the contentious cutting edge of government efforts to boost the fledgling science in the United States.

Governors and lawmakers in five states -- California, Connecticut, Illinois, Maryland and New Jersey -- have forged policies to support the controversial science with state funds, but the process has been fraught. Like the bitter debates on Capitol Hill this month, statehouse battles have been pitched, with some lawmakers trying to go even further than the federal government in restricting the science.

The Bush administration and others, primarily in the anti-abortion movement, oppose embryonic stem cell research because it involves the destruction of human embryos. They argue that scientists should abandon embryonic stem cell studies and pursue research on adult cells, which they maintain also have great potential.

But scientists and their advocates say research on embryonic cells holds the most promise because the undifferentiated embryonic cells can be developed into cells that form any organ of the body. Adult stem cells, from blood, bone marrow or brain tissue, for example, can only be used in studies that apply to the organs they came from.

Originally posted by Damocles
whats wrong with the government saying that if the private drug companies want to do the research thats fine...

The government already funds all kinds of research and will spend any funds not used for this purpose for something else, so it would be unfair to say that not funding embryonic stem cell research will keep money in the taxpayers pocket. At issue here is that we have people completely unknowledgable about the science making decisions which control the direction stem cell research.

The drug companies are willing to spend money on drugs and products that provide a clear path to profitability. Stem cell research is still basic research with no clear profit stream evident, so the drug companies are less willing to throw dollars in that direction. Government funding of stem cell research can make funding available to the best and the brightest in this area of research rather than only relying on behemoth drug companies.

All these extra fertilized eggs (embryos) are discarded once the woman is pregnant. Rather than just discarding these embryos researches want to use them for research.
Additionally, the blood found in the umbilical cord and placenta (cord blood) is also rich in embryonic stem cells.

REPLY: I'm certainly not averse to using the things you mention in research. I merely mentioned that adult cell research is a proven technology which has provided great benefits to date.

I am mostly concerned that "farming" of embryos will become commonplace.

Here is what scientists in another country, Portugal, have found about stem cell research. i found this a couple hours ago even though this is from 2005.

Nader, 26, of Farmington Hills was the first American to travel to Portugal, in March 2003, for experimental surgery for a spinal cord injury.

She was injured in July 2001 in an auto accident as she and her brother headed out on a fast-food run after their parents' 25th wedding anniversary celebration. The car flipped off the dark, winding road in the subdivision and the air bag went off. She was paralyzed from the top of her arms down.

Nader and her father, Fred, spent months checking out a Portuguese procedure before she underwent the five-hour surgery.

In the procedure, which is performed nowhere else in the world, a team of doctors opened Nader's spinal cord to clear out any scar tissue or debris at the site of the injury.

Then, using a long tube, they took a sample of olfactory mucosal cells from the ridge inside her nose, the same cells that provide the sense of smell. These cells are among the body's richest supply of adult stem cells and are capable of becoming any type of cell depending on where they are implanted. In this case, these adult stem cells were to take on the job of neurons, or nerve cells, once implanted in the spinal cord at the site of an injury.

Animal studies show that the cells "express developmentally important proteins," says Dr. Steven Hinderer, specialist-in-chief at the Rehabilitation Institute of Michigan in Detroit, which is collaborating with a team at Lisbon's Egas Moniz Hospital to evaluate and follow up with patients such as Erica. And after three years, magnetic imaging resonance tests (MRIs) show that the cells indeed promote the development of new blood cells and synapses, or connections between nerve cells, says Dr. Carlos Lima, chief of the Lisbon team.
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Gaining strength
Erica Nader's recovery has been slow but steady. She has been tireless and patient, demanding more of herself each week.

She works out like an Olympian in training: five hours three days a week and at least two hours a day the rest of the week.

She can sense the days when she can push a little more and others when she shouldn't press too much.

To stand, let alone walk, Nader demands that every muscle in her body feel just right.

Her hips must be centered, her feet spaced apart just right, her back straight. And when she moves, her weight must land on her heels, not her toes.

Too much tingling is a sign not to push too much. She waits, minutes sometimes, before taking another step, her physical therapist in front of her, a close friend behind.

Walking is her goal. For now, she settles on knowing that she is much stronger and much more capable of lifting her arms, bending her knees on a slanted exercise board and standing erect. She works for every inch of her recovery.

"It seems, just when I get discouraged, I feel or experience something new" that tells her more gains are ahead, she says.

Once, she was paralyzed from her biceps down.

Now, she can push herself off an exercise ball, do arm lifts and help raise herself off a floor mat.

Three years ago, she had no finger movements.

www.sci-info-pages.com...




[edit on 22-7-2006 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Muaddib
Here is what scientists in another country, Portugal, have found about stem cell research. i found this a couple hours ago even though this is from 2005.

Given that your such a big fan of the government Im surprised that you would present stem cell reasearch from portugal. The government thinks they are so backward that it wont authorize americans to import prescription drugs from that country.

Are you telling us that the government got it wrong and that it should immediately authorize the importation of prescription drugs from portugal? Or are your resorting to rovian cherry picking of the evidence?
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Originally posted by df1
Given that your such a big fan of the government Im surprised that you would present stem cell reasearch from portugal. The government thinks they are so backward that it wont authorize americans to import prescription drugs from that country.

Are you telling us that the government got it wrong and that it should immediately authorize the importation of prescription drugs from portugal? Or are your resorting to rovian cherry picking of the evidence?
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This thread is not about your love for all sorts of drugs... it is about stem cell research..... so let's keep in topic...

Originally posted by Muaddib
it is about stem cell research...

Actually it about the presidents veto of the stem cell legislation.

Your use of stem cell research from a country that is considered 3rd world by our own FDA sounds like a desperate rationalization of the presidents veto. Why should anyone accept evidence from such a questionable source?

Originally posted by df1
Actually it about the presidents veto of the stem cell legislation.

Your use of stem cell research from a country that is considered 3rd world by our own FDA sounds like a desperate rationalization of the presidents veto. Why should anyone accept evidence from such a questionable source?

"Desperate rationalization" comes when people have faith in a form of research which has not given any results at all..., drugs are no part of this thread....and that is another "desperate attempt to dismiss the facts"...

by Muaddib: "Government funding of stem cell research can make funding available to the best and the brightest in this area of research rather than only relying on behemoth drug companies."

RE[LY: Actually, this ("Government funding") is somewhat of a misnomer, since in actuality it is funding by the people; government doesn't have any money that they don't steal from it's citizens, through threat of force, every week or two.

President Bush's response is most likely just him doing something that he was hired to do, represent his constituents (can't blame him for that), and also determined at least a little by information presented by the relevant medical community.

Zealot. Noun def: A fervent proponent of something.
Hardly a negative connotation.

Adult Stem Cell Research = 40+ Years with Federal Funding.
Embryonic Stem Cell Research = 8 Years with Limited Funding.

REPLY: Research done in those eight years represents both industry and colleges, as evidenced by research done in the University of Wisconsin and others. Government invests a lot, (though unconstitutionally) in colleges, so it was fairly well funded.

Actually it about the presidents veto of the stem cell legislation.

REPLY: Actually, it's about the veto of Embryonic Stem Cell Research

"rovian" ............... couldn't find this in any of three dictionaries.

[edit on 23-7-2006 by zappafan1]

Originally posted by zappafan1

by Muaddib: "Government funding of stem cell research can make funding available to the best and the brightest in this area of research rather than only relying on behemoth drug companies."

I did not say that....
that was written by df1, not me...