Could the symbol for praying be masonic?

The symbol most people might make a reference to, to pray would be This

Now look at This

The whole this world has been believing that when they pray it is in a true faith never realizing that they are making the sign of a masonic emblem.

Or is this completely wrong? You decide.

I have no facts to bring before to say it is real, but since the resemblence is there I have to say it is fact.

Bad link,

Need to add www into the masonic image.

Personally, Ive no real opinion here about this, please explain your own opinion on why you believe this to be the case. I do see the similarities between the two images but what is the connection between the two symbols that makes you believe they are associated?

[edit on 19-7-2006 by crittz]

The level symbol looks like a schematic of hands in prayer.

But I'd think that hands in prayer would pre-date the existence of levels no?

jesus predates masonry. you do the math.

jesus does not predate the science of stonemasonry, nor the use of levels.

Originally posted by tempest_101
The symbol most people might make a reference to, to pray would be

www.archives.obs-us.com...

Now look at www.owmg.org...

The whole this world has been believing that when they pray it is in a true faith never realizing that they are making the sign of a masonic emblem.

Now that everyone can see the two images, I think that it's up to each to decide if there is any correlation... interesting enough, the level, while being an important symbol in Freemasonry, it is first, and foremost, an instrument of stonemasonry. On an additional note, Freemasons do not pray with their hands together.

Originally posted by Mirthful Me
Now that everyone can see the two images, I think that it's up to each to decide if there is any correlation... interesting enough, the level, while being an important symbol in Freemasonry, it is first, and foremost, an instrument of stonemasonry. On an additional note, Freemasons do not pray with their hands together.

As was said, the similiarity is there, but there is nothing whatsoever to correlate a connection. On an additional note, Freemasons pray however they personally feel they should. I doubt you'll find any Masonic texts or explanation of ritual that tells its members not to clasp their hands together while in personal prayer. What kind of sense does that make?

Originally posted by ARIST0CRAT
jesus predates masonry. you do the math.

The prayer gesture pre-dates Jesus.

I read recently that it was a symbol for the vagina. Given religions roots in Solar, nature and fertility worship - I could well believe it. Although, off the top of my head I can't remember, I'm sure I've read of other explanations too.

[edit on 19-7-2006 by VelvetSplash]

Originally posted by EdenKaia
On an additional note, Freemasons pray however they personally feel they should.

I doubt you'll find any Masonic texts or explanation of ritual that tells its members not to clasp their hands together while in personal prayer.

True enough, but during a prayer in Lodge Masons tend to bow their heads. In 25+ years of membership I've NEVER seen a Brother fold his hands. No one would mind if he did, we just typically don't. For that matter I don't do it during Mass either, nor when I pray privately.

Scottish Rite Masons (during a Scottish Rite function) typically pray as we are taught in the 18th degree, that is to cross the arms over the breast in the form of an "X" or a "St. Andrew's Cross" This is called the "Sign of the Good Shepherd"

Evil stuff, huh?

Originally posted by Appak
True enough, but during a prayer in Lodge Masons tend to bow their heads. In 25+ years of membership I've NEVER seen a Brother fold his hands. No one would mind if he did, we just typically don't. For that matter I don't do it during Mass either, nor when I pray privately.

Understood, but equally curious. When was the last time in a regular Christian church that you really saw anyone praying with their hands clasped together like that image? Most people bow their heads. The hand clasping is mostly in paintings and childhood bedside prayers. Are the Masons now influencing our children now?

Originally posted by EdenKaia
When was the last time in a regular Christian church that you really saw anyone praying with their hands clasped together like that image?

It goes beyond christians. Hindus will hold their hands like that in prayer too.

Originally posted by EdenKaia
When was the last time in a regular Christian church that you really saw anyone praying with their hands clasped together like that image?

Actually, if I recall from my church-going days, most Christians pray like that when they kneel in the church pews.

Originally posted by Appak
Scottish Rite Masons (during a Scottish Rite function) typically pray as we are taught in the 18th degree, that is to cross the arms over the breast in the form of an "X" or a "St. Andrew's Cross" This is called the "Sign of the Good Shepherd"

Several lodges I've encountered do that, as well. Mine places one's hand over one's heart.

Originally posted by EdenKaia
When was the last time in a regular Christian church that you really saw anyone praying with their hands clasped together like that image? Most people bow their heads.

Exactly my point above.

The hand clasping is mostly in paintings and childhood bedside prayers. Are the Masons now influencing our children now?

Well, since we *seem* to agree that Masons don't typically pray like that I'd say they're hardly influencing children to do so, right?

That being said, if Masons are influencing children to pray, bully for them! We could use some more prayer in this world of ours.

Originally posted by Hobbes


Several lodges I've encountered do that, as well. Mine places one's hand over one's heart.

In my jurisdiction, prayer while standing in the Sign of the Good Shepherd is official, as has been the case in every Lodge I've ever visited outside of my jurisdiction. I thought the practice was universal.

Originally posted by Masonic Light
In my jurisdiction, prayer while standing in the Sign of the Good Shepherd is official, as has been the case in every Lodge I've ever visited outside of my jurisdiction. I thought the practice was universal.

Not in the U.S.A. (generally speaking) There are some traditional observance Lodges and some that work a version of the British "Emulation Ritual" that do and I believe the ten "Scottish Rite Blue Lodges" in Louisiana do, but the remainder do not.

I think that's a point that confuses a lot of non-Masons. There are SO many variants of the basic Masonic ritual. They vary greatly from jurisdiction to jurisdiction and some states (Kentucky for example) do not have an "official" ritual so the degrees vary from Lodge to Lodge. They're *basically* the same, but not *exactly* A lot of non-Masons read a book and think they've read THE Masonic ritual...when there are hundreds of versions (all teaching the same basic lessons)

Originally posted by Appak
[

Not in the U.S.A. (generally speaking) There are some traditional observance Lodges and some that work a version of the British "Emulation Ritual" that do and I believe the ten "Scottish Rite Blue Lodges" in Louisiana do, but the remainder do not.

I'm in the USA (South Carolina). The Blue Lodges here do, as do those in NC, GA, Fla, and Tenn.

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by Appak
[

Not in the U.S.A. (generally speaking) There are some traditional observance Lodges and some that work a version of the British "Emulation Ritual" that do and I believe the ten "Scottish Rite Blue Lodges" in Louisiana do, but the remainder do not.

I'm in the USA (South Carolina). The Blue Lodges here do, as do those in NC, GA, Fla, and Tenn.

Sorry about that. I thought I'd read that you were in Canada. (Mea culpa) I've attended numerous Lodges in Georgia and Tennessee and have never seen it done.

Peculiar.

Originally posted by Appak


Sorry about that. I thought I'd read that you were in Canada. (Mea culpa) I've attended numerous Lodges in Georgia and Tennessee and have never seen it done.

Peculiar.

Indeed. I was speaking with another Mason in U2U on the subject, and he also thought the practice was universal. He mentioned the fact that this prayer position is also used in national meetings, which reminded me of seeing it universally used even in international Masonic meetings, such as during sessions of the General Grand Royal Arch Chapter International and General Grand Council of Cryptic Masons International. I've been in many Lodges around the country and have never seen the prayer position of the Good Shepherd not used.

Originally posted by Masonic Light
Indeed. I was speaking with another Mason in U2U on the subject, and he also thought the practice was universal. He mentioned the fact that this prayer position is also used in national meetings, which reminded me of seeing it universally used even in international Masonic meetings, such as during sessions of the General Grand Royal Arch Chapter International and General Grand Council of Cryptic Masons International. I've been in many Lodges around the country and have never seen the prayer position of the Good Shepherd not used.

Yes, now that you mention it, I've attended (only one) Gen. Grand Royal Arch session and saw it. I remember it striking me as a bit odd because I thought of it more as a "Scottish Rite" thing. From time to time I've seen Lodge members do it but they were visitors (or very active Scottish Rite members) But it's not taught at all in my home Grand Lodge (Kentucky).