Shall we take a look at the MESS in the Middle East?

pavil

It's all a game, way to another conflict if you can not step from the propaganda and see it for what it is then . . . tell me how come Israel is right and everybody around them are wrong.

Who dictate what countries can do while others can not.

Denied ignorances.

Originally posted by marg6043
pavil

It's all a game, way to another conflict if you can not step from the propaganda and see it for what it is then . . . tell me how come Israel is right and everybody around them are wrong.

Who dictate what countries can do while others can not.

Denied ignorances.

So, if it truly is a 'game' to you - even though many lives are being lost - why don't you tell us how come Israel is wrong and all the terrorist organizations around them that are attacking it are right? And do you suppose the people caught up in the middle of this terrible situation also consider it a 'game'?

"Denied ignorances"? No, I think you might have more accurately written "Perpetuated ignorances".


[edit on 7/18/2006 by centurion1211]

I bring in ALTERNATIVE news. I bring something to the table to discuss. How come i never see you post many new threads?
All you do is stalk MY threads because you already know whats comming.

Your sole purpose is to "ridicule" and "undermine" me and those who might agree.

What is that called? Give me a minute, i'll think of the word.

I'd like to see you post all the positive and good and the truth as seen by your eyes.....

I am not against Israel. I am posting another view to this situation. I am not YOU.

I have different points of view. Live with it.

Do something constructive with your day instead of following women around and put down every thought they have. You might want to follow this suggestion.

BTW- you know darned right well MARG did not mean this was a "game to her"
YOU MIGHT WANT TO TRY TO INTERPRET WHAT SHE SAYS BETTER.

[edit on 19-7-2006 by dgtempe]

Funny how Israel harp on about the sanctity of the UN, when it has broken over 60 UN Resolutions....

Why should Hezbollah obey UN Resolutions, when Israel, captor of Palestinian and Lebanese people, and occupier of Lebanese territory, has broken 60?

Come on, what incentive should Hezbollah be driven by to do 'disarm' when it sees itself as a resistance group of Lebanon, with territory of Lebanon still occupied by Israel, and as an ally of the oppressed Palestinians who are oppressed by a state that feels it is above international law?

People say that opinion is turning against the Palestinians.

I say that people are starting to realise what a monstrous, violent, xenophobic entity Israel is through it's actions.

Originally posted by dgtempe
Do something constructive with your day instead of following women around and put down every thought they have.

You might want to follow this suggestion.

Congratulation dgtempe!

It's official! You have a stalker!

Originally posted by Regensturm
Come on, what incentive should Hezbollah be driven by to do 'disarm' when it sees itself as a resistance group of Lebanon, with territory of Lebanon still occupied by Israel...

What part of Lebanon is still occupied? The last occupiers, the Syrians, left due to pressure from Lebanon and the international community. Israel had withdrawn from all Lebanese territory it had seized in conflicts with Lebanon. Cheeba farms has been held since 1967 when it was seized from Syria in the 6 day war. Most non Arab/Muslim nations and even the UN acknowledge that Cheeba was Syrian territory when it was captured. Do your research if you doubt my statements. Hezbollah likes to claim it is still trying to "liberate" it to still allow it to fire rockets into Israel.

The biggest occupier of Lebanon now is Hezbollah, which I'm pretty sure Lebanon has tired of their occupation of the south of their country.

I watched a 2 hour meeting late last night on C-SPAN discussing the Muslim perspective on all of this, including American Muslims, European Muslims and those in the Middle East and Asia.

The two greatest problems were anti-American sentiments building ever since we invaded Iraq and what all the panel experts deemed as the greatest obsticle to peace, which is the 800 pound gorilla of U.S. support for Israel.

I wish I could remember the names of the American Muslim experts, but one put the cards on the table quite well.

The invasion of Afghanistan to bring Bin Laden to justice was widely supported. Our invasion of Iraq is where the majority of problems
stem from.

The Bush administration's foreign policies have done more harm to
the image of our country in the last 5 years, than any event in history.

They have seen conquerers all the way back to Alexander the Great and latter conquests from European countries attempting to exploit the wealth of the region.

They know this is all about oil and the congressional committee members flat out admitted that this is all about oil and our need to secure uninterrupted supplies from the M.E.

There are also continuous problems with stereotyping on both sides.

The majority of Western nations have a very poor understanding of
Muslim culture and divisions within that culture.

We do not seem to understand that moderate Muslims welcome Western style democracy, but as the situation worsens in the M.E. more and more
Muslims are driven to fight amongst themselves for recognition.

The most disturbing survey results showed 1 out of 7 Muslims feel that
suicide bombing can be justified in certain situations, but those are the extremist views not held by the vast majority.
Even so, it's obviously a problem.

Our mis-handling of events in the M.E. has now elevated Osama Bin Laden
to Shiek in many African regions. He has become a religious symbol against the exploitation of Muslim wealth by Western nations.

It's all very complicated as anyone can imagine, but the only solution is a better understanding between cultures.

While the majority of moderate Muslims welcome democracy, the old guard
does not want our Western lifestyle imposed on their people.
It will take many years before they accept the role of women as equals if ever. They feel Western lifestyle threatens the teachings of Islam and that
is no easy hurdle to overcome.
__________________

Hezbollah got created after Israel invaded Liban in the 80s.
So even if Israel gets rid of Hezbollah now, you will see another defense organisation arise.
This is just another proof to straighten people's feelings in the region that Israel is a threat.
And they got it right all along.
And yes, Israel's attitude is pretty hypocritical towards the UN.
It now asks that a UN resolution be enforced, asks for Lebanese army to be deployed in the south and still, yesterday bombeb 2 Lebanese military camps.

In my view, UN are just a tool and Isreali are peons.
Really, what are the US interests in an US-Israel alliance ?
Israel is so far away.
It can only be explained with geopolitic interests in the region aka oil.
America has been trying to set a permanent foot in the region for a long time and now they re doing it for good.
And Israel are their way in.
The people that will most suffer from this alliance are surely the Israeli.
As long as this conflict continues, people from both sides will die, america will still cash in billions of dollars selling weapons to Israel and others that might feel threatened and so on ...
So far the only winning party is america.

Now that might sound a stupid idea, but, Jews and Muslims have been living side by side for a long time until zionnist theories came put an end to it.
Instead of building walls separating the two communities (making them also easier to target), just put an israeli family in one house, a palestinian on the next and repeat.

[edit on 19-7-2006 by Chrysalis]

Very good post Fallen. I will have to look on CSPAN for a link or rebroadcast of it. Thanks for the info. As with anything in the ME it is very complicated.

Originally posted by FallenFromTheTree
While the majority of moderate Muslims welcome democracy, the old guard
does not want our Western lifestyle imposed on their people.
It will take many years before they accept the role of women as equals if ever. They feel Western lifestyle threatens the teachings of Islam and that
is no easy hurdle to overcome.

The ironic thing is that "women as equals" is only one aspect of western culture, which we tout as one of the "many" virtues of our culture. We've have many freedoms (no small thing right there), equal rights, and the right to believe in any religion (or none) that we please.

But western culture also brings raunchy television & movies, freedom to dress almost as provocatively as one wishes, high divorce rates, high suicide rates, high obesity, high drug addiction, high porn addiction, high violent crime, etc.... I'm no religious zealot, that's a fact. I'm definitely in the middle in most respects, however for anyone who wishes to lead a somewhat pious and respectful life and wishes to immerse themselves in a culture that promotes decency, respect for others, encouragement of community advancement over individual advancement.....you have to admit western culture (at least the way it is presented in the media, movies, tv, etc...) certainly misses the mark in many ways IMHO.

So can you blame individuals immersed in an ultra-conservative religious culture in the middle-east that hold enormous fear of the evils that could fall on their land should American/Western culture be allowed to infiltrate and take root? Just playing devil's advocate here - but until we (western people) can learn to respect others as much as we respect ourselves and to treat others with decency and humility regardless of who they are or where they're from (and this is reflected in our media, which unfortunately is a reflection of our culture) - our culture will never be seen as one of peace, or one which other cultures will want to embrace.

We live in a face-paced, individualistic, war-based economy - and we've all (mostly) become cogs in the war machine. Is there a way out?

-Ry

centurion1211

Is the game of politics and has been played in Iraq by our own government and all around the world through the years.

Now Israel is not staying behind the are joining the biggest player of all the present administration.

Rule #1 : All countries look out first and foremost for their own interests, anybody telling you otherwise is lying. All countries do that, why do you spin it as evil that the U.S. does likewise. You can have other secondary reasons, but the Rule always stands.

Originally posted by marg6043
Who dictate what countries can do while others can not.

Back to your above quote, Other countries do, primarily due to Rule# 1 above. Nobody really gave a rat's behind that North Korea wanted to starve it's citizens or Rwanda or Pol Pot wanted to go psycho until they started to interfere with a Rule #1 of another State.

When two countries Rule#1collide is where you hope the UN can really be a good forum, more often than not it isn't . Then the settling of "who's #1 is really #1" starts.

Originally posted by pavil


All countries do that, why do you spin it as evil that the U.S. does likewise. [quote

Because it was the present administration the one that declared a war on terror and took it to the middle east when it opened the door in Iraq.

I do not have to spin anything at all my own government has done it all own its own.

If you think that bringing a war to a sovereign country that has done nothing to the US and that was not involved in 9/11 and either had not MWDs is not evil then I guess you are another one with a fuzzy mind when it comes to the justifications of the war on terror been taken to Iraq and the Iraqi people.

I don't need to spin anything at all . . .It has been spinning since Bush took office.