Should Gays be allowed to marry?

Nice way of putting that. I agree that we should not disriminate people because of their race, gender, thoughts [unless of course they are evil i.e terroistic thoughts ], and whterer or not they are gay. Everyone shoudl have the right to mary even gays. The same with adoption. Everyone should have the right to adopt, gays and all people.

Netchicken says,
"Should gays be allowed to marry"

"We seem to have lost the plot a little here ...

Sure let gays live together, cohabit, do whatever they want in the privacy of their own homes, I have no hangups with that.

But the MARRY part I do....

Marriage is not just a social contact, you don't need one nowdays, but it is fundamentally a religious rite.

You are asking God to bless the union of the couple. You are asking for society to support the union of the couple.

God for sure wouldn't do that.. he can't bless the union of something he describes as abhorent...

Maybe society can ... but then they can show their commitment in other ways outside the realms of "marriage".

So what you are wanting is not the christian rite of marriage, maybe you can create your own pagan rite of bonding ...

.. and use that.... "
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I agree with Netchicken. Not with the Blessing of God.

It's not just a religious rite. It has secular, legal implications. If two people spend their lives together, they should have the same rights as heterosexual couples.

Marriage Rights and Benefits
Learn some of the legal and practical ways that getting married changes your life.

Whether or not you favor marriage as a social institution, there�s no denying that it confers many rights, protections and benefits -- both legal and practical. Some of these vary from state to state, but the list typically includes:

Tax Benefits
Filing joint income tax returns with the IRS and state taxing authorities.
Creating a �family partnership� under federal tax laws, which allows you to divide business income among family members.
Estate Planning Benefits
Inheriting a share of your spouse�s estate.
Receiving an exemption from both estate taxes and gift taxes for all property you give or leave to your spouse.
Creating life estate trusts that are restricted to married couples, including QTIP trusts, QDOT trusts and marital deduction trusts.
Obtaining priority if a conservator needs to be appointed for your spouse -- that is, someone to make financial and/or medical decisions on your spouse�s behalf.
Government Benefits
Receiving Social Security, Medicare and disability benefits for spouses.
Receiving veterans' and military benefits for spouses, such as those for education, medical care or special loans.
Receiving public assistance benefits.
Employment Benefits
Obtaining insurance benefits through a spouse�s employer.
Taking family leave to care for your spouse during an illness.
Receiving wages, workers� compensation and retirement plan benefits for a deceased spouse.
Taking bereavement leave if your spouse or one of your spouse�s close relatives dies.
Medical Benefits
Visiting your spouse in a hospital intensive care unit or during restricted visiting hours in other parts of a medical facility.
Making medical decisions for your spouse if he or she becomes incapacitated and unable to express wishes for treatment.
Death Benefits
Consenting to after-death examinations and procedures.
Making burial or other final arrangements.
Family Benefits
Filing for stepparent or joint adoption.
Applying for joint foster care rights.
Receiving equitable division of property if you divorce.
Receiving spousal or child support, child custody and visitation if you divorce.
Housing Benefits
Living in neighborhoods zoned for �families only.�
Automatically renewing leases signed by your spouse.
Consumer Benefits
Receiving family rates for health, homeowners�, auto and other types of insurance.
Receiving tuition discounts and permission to use school facilities.
Other consumer discounts and incentives offered only to married couples or families.
Other Legal Benefits and Protections
Suing a third person for wrongful death of your spouse and loss of consortium.
Suing a third person for offenses that interfere with the success of your marriage, such as alienation of affection and criminal conversation (these laws are available in only a few states).
Claiming the marital communications privilege, which means a court can�t force you to disclose the contents of confidential communications between you and your spouse during your marriage.
Receiving crime victims� recovery benefits if your spouse is the victim of a crime.
Obtaining domestic violence protection orders.
Obtaining immigration and residency benefits for noncitizen spouse.
Visiting rights in jails and other places where visitors are restricted to immediate family.

There is no reason at all why they should not marry. Relgious people may not like it but, God says ''Love thy neighbor.''

We shoud love, and not discrfiminate any form of life.

Wow JM, I agree with you. People, marrige isn't a religous thing. At least it wasn't. Today in a country dominated by christians, marrige has turned into somewhat religous matter. But that is what the courts and :as Vegas are for. Don't need a preist or anything like that. Also, state and church seperate, in other words, church legally can't influence such decisions. They may teach that being homosexual is wrong, but the laws decide what is right and wrong. Law says speeding and hunting whales in Oklahoma is illegal while it says it is legal for a person to marry or not.

By the way, what staes besides Nevada can have homosexual marriges?

"By the way, what staes besides Nevada can have homosexual marriges?"
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BEEP! WRONG STATEMENT!

Nevadan's voted down same sex marriages. Although Las Vegas is known as "Sin City" they don't even have legal brothels. The Brothels are located in towns like Crystal and Pahrump Nevada. The state that allows homosexual marriages is Vermont. Also there is no homosexual Brothel in the State of Nevada.

I had a revelation, please don't shoot down the idea right off the bat, give it some moments of thought.

St. Theresa, I read your long list of what Gays can't have because they can not be married, I am aware of those, and was aware of those when I voted down gay marriages, which I voted down on moral reasons.

Here is my revelation. I'm not sure how to put this because I don't know what I want to angle at, but here I go...

If we were to stop focusing on Gay marriages, and correct those "benifits", by defining them differently, such as any couple that lives together applies for them can recieve the benifits, not sure how it would best work, but when there is a will there is a way.

So if we were to remove the ALL the descretions from the equation.

Would anyone still support gay marriages? I wouldn't, that is why I don't now.

My lack of support outweighs their benifits of being married, such as legal benifits and such.

But why should you have to be married at all to have those benifits, if it weren't for a government issued post card saying you were married, you are just two people living together forever and that's it.

Marriage means WAY more than what benifits you derive from it. The people who are against gay marriages are not mean biggots, they realize that is the truth of marriage. I don't think any hetero people marry to recieve their spouces SS check when they die.

What the gays are doing is in part greedy, and in part wanting fairness. The SS check is greed, that is too far down the road to be an issue, unless a 65 year old homos want to marry, and one of them die the next year.

The fairness issues, are like the one I so often hear about, can't remember fully, the one where they gay partner can't sign for their other partner in the hospital for treatment, or something like that?

Anyways....think about it, I realize this is shoddily worded, but try and understand the points which are:

Without the benifits of "LEGAL" marriage, should we still allow Gay marriages?

What is marriage....it is more than a union for benifits....should it even be something needed to be recognized by the government? Or just a religion?

Sincerely,
no signature

Nah, still don't follow you.

Perhaps, for some couples, it's more than social security checks and retirement benefits. Maybe they DO share a love and a lifelong devotion. Maybe they DO want the right to visit the other in the ICU. Those are important things. They're denied by this law, unless, in some cases, gay couples can be accepted as commonlaw spouses.

Originally posted by St. Theresa
Those are important things. They're denied by this law, unless, in some cases, gay couples can be accepted as commonlaw spouses.

Well that's my point, if we don't deny some couples those things, meaning that ANY couple can get them...meaning don't have them be requirments of marriage. Then WHY? should the Gays be allowed to marry?

In no civilization for 1000s of years EVER have gays been allowed to marry gays.

This is a syndrom, caused by the lack of need of procreation, and work.

Our traditions are passed on to us by people who need to have sex to have kids, needed to have kids to work.

Now we grow things in tubes, and have robots to work.

Humanity with the lack of traditions is going down the crapper. And the ONE tradition we truly have left, is the holy bond between a MAN and WOMAN.

Not between MAN and MAN, or MAN and DOG or Giraffe.

If you define marriage as love between a couple, than perhaps we should marry all the geese to eachother? They have life time spouces too...we could slap a gold ring around where the plastic 6-pack holders would normally go

Marriage has a definition, it does not include gays, they can have their own religion if they want to be married. But handle the discrimination another way than by changing our definition of marriage.

Sincerely,
no signature

FM, your idea is an old one, and if you look back you'll see that i posted an article from the bbc on how the british government is moving towards doing exactly what you suggest: civil partnerships.

here's the article again:

Gay 'marriages': What could change?
news.bbc.co.uk...

and there is several more linked off that page.

now, this i think comes down to a) your definition of marriage and b) true equality. one of the things that gay and lesbian people would like to see is equality, and that means marriage. why? because heterosexuals can get married, therefore homosexuals should be able to get married. that is the only way there can be true equality. (feel free to argue but i'm sure i can hold that arguement) to me - as someone who's not overly fussed by marriage as such - this is a little odd, but i see there point. homosexuals want to see their relationship, their lifelong committment, recognised with the same standing as a heterosexual marriage, because to them its the same thing. putting the question of god aside it is indentical: a lifelong comittment and all that that entails. that is the big arguement (in my view) for gay marriages. not just the legal benefits, but recognition by law that their relationship is as valid as anyone elses.

- qo.

FM, marrige isn't a religous matter, or at least a christian religous matter. Witches allowed gay/lesbian marriges, druids did, only until you get to monotheist religons is being different evil and hell worthy.

Also, it isn't legal in Nevada? I heard it was, oh well. Sorry, shouldn't go by hearsay. Thanks for correcting me.

Anyways, FM, you have a religous standpoint, but a law is a government decision. In other words, until you people start paying taxes and such, you have no legal argument. Until the lands owned by religon(Church grounds, so forth) and income tax and all that, you have no say legally. Sure you may march, protest, burn down gay peoples houses and shoot them as they flee(In san fran a couple of times, the christian states aka deep south, a couple in the north), but legally the religous viewpoint means zilch.

So, any legal reasons gays/lebians can't marry? So far have many god says not to, even though he doesn't, people do in a book, and one person called it an abomination. Why is it? Occording to the bible. But bible while written by humans, is a religous viewpoint and legally means zilch. Well, either pay taxes and gain a legal say or shut up. The sepertion of church and state keeps us free, individuals, and not the sheep following blindly as the bible tells you to.

Once again Mr.President, who controls taxes here? I was to busy getting some cuban cigars for Guntnomo Bay to find out. That way the religous folks can start being taxed so they can have a legal voice in law and government.

I'm pretty much anti-marriage any way. Using the bible or other such works to deny people a right which is granted to others freely has nothing to do with laws and a lot to do with organized religion. Why am I pretty much anti-marriage? Well I've seen a lot of divorces and it doesn't seem to be curbing much, so that should tell us all something. When women were subserviant to men it worked out because the women were expected to go along with whatever the men decided regardless of there own opinion. Now that they are supposedly equal disagreements arise that cannot be healed and the marriage is ended. It is my belief that marriage goes against human nature. Less and less people are getting married at all. So why bring gays into this mess?

So obviously I have mixed feelings on this issue. I'm anti-marriage but pro whoever wants to do it.

WTF??? Of course should Gay people be allowed too marrie! Whatever your sexual blablabla is, you have the right too chose. I prefer girls, and preferably slim girlz with big nice eeeerm eyes but still it really makes me when people judge over gay people! Ok it's weird to see two men walking hand in hand and yes it looks weird (read: horny) when two women are kissing but people are people and you can't change theyr ways of living so let them live like they want!

That they shouldn't adopt children or whatsoever that is an other more difficult matter. And I prefer not to judge over that matter!

[Edited on 23-1-2003 by B]

Originally posted by B

but people are people and you can't change theyr ways of living so let them live like they want!

Nice. I like to kill & torture peoples. Like it's my " way of live ", I would like to have the official right to do it.

Could you vote a law please ? Cuz you know, people are peoples and you can't change me.So, let me live like I want.

Oh yeah, also, I've friend. He luv childrens and he would like to have the right to live with a 5 years old girl. May be you can vote a law for him, cuz you know, peoples are peoples and you bla bla bla..... So, let him bla bla bla....

Thanks, regards, and good night.

I believe the counter arguments to UP's contention can be found earlier in the thread. this is an old thread, shall we consider it redundant?

Originally posted by ultra_phoenix

Originally posted by B

but people are people and you can't change theyr ways of living so let them live like they want!

Nice. I like to kill & torture peoples. Like it's my " way of live ", I would like to have the official right to do it.

Could you vote a law please ? Cuz you know, people are peoples and you can't change me.So, let me live like I want.

Oh yeah, also, I've friend. He luv childrens and he would like to have the right to live with a 5 years old girl. May be you can vote a law for him, cuz you know, peoples are peoples and you bla bla bla..... So, let him bla bla bla....

Thanks, regards, and good night.

Never heard about a conscience ??? And the subject is "Should Gays be allowed to marry?" so the text you've quoted handles that subject! Not pedophilie or whatsoever

Originally posted by B

Never heard about a conscience ??? And the subject is "Should Gays be allowed to marry?" so the text you've quoted handles that subject! Not pedophilie or whatsoever

B, I did it on purpose. My meaning was that we need to have some moral fences, or we'll collapse definitively.

Of course there is a difference between what I wrote and what you wrote, I know it.

But sometime, we have to say " NO " because we reached the point of no return. Because if you say " yes ", you'll have ALLWAYS to say " yes " the next times.

You're Belgian, right ? Do I have to recall you who's Jean-Pierre Graff� and what he want ????

Originally posted by ultra_phoenix
You're Belgian, right ? Do I have to recall you who's Jean-Pierre Graff� and what he want ????

I'm not THAT old you know But here in Belgium Gay people can marry can't they???

i think God created man and woman with purpose

thats fine, the magority of people however don't believe in God at all, which suggests that your probably deluded.