You are a racist if you don't want illegals in the US...?

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posted on Jul, 21 2006 @ 05:11 PM
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Originally posted by TrueAmerican

Did I pass it?


Not that I'm aware. You're cool.




posted on Jul, 21 2006 @ 05:19 PM
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Originally posted by LeftBehind
Well, if you really think about it, most of the US population is descended from Illegals.

The Pilgrims did not go through customs.


I personally have no problem with illegal immigration.

Give it 50 years and see if it's still a problem.



When the pilgrims and many other immigrants came over there was no customs because North America was just a collection of colonies from many couontries. Only needed a customs department after the U.S. became a soveriegn nation.

And if you have no problem with illegal immigration, I'm guess that you either are an illegal yourself, still in school, or both.



posted on Jul, 21 2006 @ 06:04 PM
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Originally posted by LeftBehind
Well, if you really think about it, most of the US population is descended from Illegals.


Many things are now against the law that didn't used to be and vice versa. Coca-cola used to contain coc aine. Remember prohibition?

We're talking about now.



posted on Jul, 21 2006 @ 08:16 PM
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If a draft starts in America, I'm sure that some people will be trying to enter Canada to escape it.

How does Canada treat illegal immigrants, I wonder?

Do they call Americans who live there illegally, "illegals"?

However, about the pilgrims.....I think that it is "cop out" because people don't want to realize that they are descended from "illegals". However, there are some of us who were dragged by the very first "illegals" in chains to work for them.

And then, the very first "illegals" in this country passed a "grandfather clause" to punish other immigrants coming after them. Go figure.

So, some might be ashamed of the true orgins of their ancestors and how they got here. Especially those who came and forcefully invaded another land and colonized it. It is called, in short, "selective memory".





[edit on 21-7-2006 by ceci2006]



posted on Jul, 21 2006 @ 08:19 PM
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Historically, the Americans to whom you refer are called asylum-seekers north of the border, I believe. Here we call them draft-dodgers or traitors, for short.



posted on Jul, 21 2006 @ 08:21 PM
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Yes, Grady, but they are still there illegally.

What makes them any different than the undocumented workers here?



posted on Jul, 21 2006 @ 08:22 PM
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For that, you'll have to ask a Canadian, but remember that we have political asylum laws here, too.



posted on Jul, 21 2006 @ 08:24 PM
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No matter, they have crossed the border and taken jobs away from "hardworking" Canadians. So I suppose that there are Americans there who have sucked up the system there like people complain about the undocumented workers here.

But yes, I suppose we must ask a Canadian what do they call Americans who are illegally over there in their country taking advantage of the system. Especially when buying cheaper medicine to escape the high costs of buying them in the U.S.


[edit on 21-7-2006 by ceci2006]



posted on Jul, 21 2006 @ 08:40 PM
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I agree with you. Americans have no right, in my opinion, to reside anywhere illegally. I am especially against Americans buying Canadian subsidized drugs in Canada and bringing them home or buying them over the internet for that matter. If Americans want Canada's cheap drugs, they should seek Canadian citizenship and pay Canadian taxes.

[edit on 2006/7/21 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Jul, 21 2006 @ 08:47 PM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
I am especially against Americans buying Canadian subsidized drugs in Canada and bringing them home or buying them over the internet for that matter. If Americans want Canada's cheap drugs, they should seek Canadian citizenship and pay Canadian taxes.




Grady, not sure I empathize with your position. So does that mean that Americans should seek Chinese citizenship and pay Chinese taxes for buying Chinese goods? Wish you'd clarify that a bit for me, please. Just so I don't get all wild and crazy and stuff.



posted on Jul, 21 2006 @ 08:51 PM
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That is very fair, Grady.

But I wonder if Canadians have a perjorative term for Americans residing illegally in Canada?

Or, do Canadians have more class and tact when it comes to naming American illegal immigrants who are there and taking from the system?

After all, "illegals" is a pejorative term that originated in America. Someone who definitely had a lack of consideration and conscience coined the term. And it stuck as a way to stigmatize undocumented workers and treat them badly.

I still wonder whether such a term would be coined if the "illegals" were Europeans who had "anchor babies" to stay in the country?

Or are such terms reserved for those who come from South America?

Of course, when it comes to the issue of illegal immigration, one might not be racist if they are thinking about this in terms of "legality".

But, there is a slippery slope about using pejorative terms regarding illegal immigration when referring to a certain group that is "different" from the speaker as a way to "separate" themselves from their own cultural bias.

That's why I think there is a thin line between love and hate here.




[edit on 21-7-2006 by ceci2006]



posted on Jul, 21 2006 @ 09:14 PM
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Ceci

Illegal is only a pejorative because illegal activity is a crime. Calling people who are here illegally "illegals" is just calling people what they are. Using a "nicer" term is just obfuscation.



posted on Jul, 21 2006 @ 09:16 PM
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Originally posted by TrueAmerican
Grady, not sure I empathize with your position. So does that mean that Americans should seek Chinese citizenship and pay Chinese taxes for buying Chinese goods? Wish you'd clarify that a bit for me, please. Just so I don't get all wild and crazy and stuff.


We have trade agreements with China. It is not illegal to buy Chinese goods on the American market.

[edit on 2006/7/22 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Jul, 21 2006 @ 09:32 PM
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Why not just open the borders, fire all the border patrol and send them to the Middle East? Hell, after all the Mexicans are here, we can just pack up and all move to Mexico. And if they don't want to let us buy their land, no problem: we just sick Bush on em with his own personal agenda military. Then we can close the border, leave the Mexicans stranded in the USA, and let them have at it all they want. Well my bet is Americans would make something of that place. There'd be just about everything we have here eventually, and when they start crossing the border illegally back into Mexico again, just move right back up here. :shk:

The issue is with their system, which is not working, or is corrupt to the point of economic disaster. The issue is with their people who have lost faith in the government because of its inordinate inability to police itself, crime, and stimulate the economy. It's lack of social programs that work, even though half the ones in the US don't work well either.

{sidebar}Weee, its PTS... I'm startin to like it here.
The chains of ATS intellectual conspiratorial hegemony are freed.{/sidebar}

Back on topic, ahem, umm.... Really, I was hoping for some sociological insight as to why these people that I have talked to in the original post have taken that position of the title thread. Any ideas, anyone? Unfortunately, we digress into the topic of immigration as a whole again, of which there are many threads already.

I think BH has really tried to understand and repond to where I'm coming from on this. She pointed out that this thread title position has NOTHING to do with the discussion of legality. Mexicans in particular have abandoned their county, desperate for jobs and food to the point of risking death in the desert to get out of there. That directly points to their government, but it also points to them. Hey Bush, how bout putting Mexico on your FixIt list, eh?

The issue is, our country has an immigration policy, just like every other country. Border security is being abused, not enforced well enough, and it is time to do something. The Fence. Mexicans have got to start understanding that they have worn out their ILLEGAL welcome. Not their legal one though, by any means. So if I am a racist for stating that, then erase me. To the border.

edit: replace one word.

[edit on 21-7-2006 by TrueAmerican]



posted on Jul, 21 2006 @ 09:33 PM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
It is not illegal to buy Chinese goods on the American market.


Is it illegal to buy drugs from Canada? I'm asking because I don't know. It's legal to go into Mexico and buy things...

And I agree (although I don't use the term) "illegals" is only perjorative because it's illegal. It's a crime. Like "drug dealer". Perhaps we should call them "substance financiers" so as not to hurt their feelings?

But "undocumented workers" is like putting a big soft pillow around it as to not hurt anyone's feelings. It's politically correct... Like calling a housewife a domestic engineer. Yes, that's what she does, but there's nothing wrong with the term housewife unless people want there to be.

And I'm sure Canadians do have a nickname for people that means 'people from the US who are here illegally'. Maybe they call them illegals or undocumented workers.



posted on Jul, 21 2006 @ 09:35 PM
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I could be wrong, but I think it is. Some pharmacies will gladly sell them to you, but I don't think its legal. I apologize, if I'm wrong. If it isn't it should be because they're only cheap because of Canadian taxpayers.

I'm researching this now.

[edit on 2006/7/21 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Jul, 21 2006 @ 09:47 PM
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I may be wrong. There is some opposition to this practice, but apparently it's legal.


www.washingtonpost.com...

The Bush administration has questioned the safety of getting prescriptions filled in Canada. An administration panel studying the matter concluded that there was "a significant and untenable risk to Americans" who send prescriptions north of the border, Duffy said.

Canadian authorities reject that concern, saying Canadian pharmacies are tightly controlled and regulated. But health officials here worry that Canada's pharmacies could be overwhelmed if the doors are open to the huge American market.

"It's common sense that Canada, with 33 million people, cannot be the drug store for 295 million Americans," said Polk, the Health Ministry spokesman.



Here's a club that connects Americans to cheap Canadian drugs.

www.americandrugclub.com...

Google Search



posted on Jul, 21 2006 @ 09:53 PM
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Originally posted by TrueAmerican
The issue is with their system, which is not working, or is corrupt to the point of economic disaster. The issue is with their people who have lost faith in the government because of its inordinate inability to police itself, crime, and stimulate the economy. It's lack of social programs that work, even though half the ones in the US don't work well either. ... Mexicans in particular have abandoned their county, desperate for jobs to the point of risking death in the desert to get out of there. That directly points to their government, but it also points to them. ...Mexicans have got to start understanding that they have worn out their ILLEGAL welcome. Not their legal one though, by any means.


To be really blunt - Most "hispanics", most "minorities" know that the first card you play in political poker is the Trump Card, the 'racist' card. It puts the target on the defensive immediately and tends to invalidate every other argument the target can come up with. Now if you want real racism, travel to Mexico, which is blatently racist in it's treatment of blacks, it's laws regarding political positions, property rights and just about everything else.

Let's face a solid, well studied, and well hidden secret by the U.S. Intelligence services since the 1960's, if you closed the border with Mexico, there would be a violent, bloody and population clearing revolution within 6 months. The Mexican people would have to face up to the problems of their own society and they would respond in the only way they know how, kill each other and steal everything in sight.



posted on Jul, 21 2006 @ 09:55 PM
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Hold the phone. Apparently, it is illegal for Americans to order drugs from Canada:


Even though the practice is illegal, Americans in droves have been importing prescription drugs from Canada. Last year, an estimated 2 million U.S. citizens spent $800 million on medicines purchased from Canadian pharmacies by fax, phone, or Web site. That's 33 percent more than in 2003. A long list of states and cities, including Kansas, Illinois, Minnesota, Missouri, New Hampshire, Wisconsin, Boston, and Portland, Maine, have set up programs to help residents and employees import Canadian drugs priced on average 25 to 50 percent below those on the U.S. market.

www.consumerreports.org...


This would be an excellent topic for Social Issues, if someone wants to put together a post.


[edit on 2006/7/21 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Jul, 21 2006 @ 10:04 PM
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Originally posted by 2stepsfromtop
It puts the target on the defensive immediately and tends to invalidate every other argument the target can come up with.


This is what I was saying on page one of this thread. It's the same as speaking out against the government and being called a traitor. It lays (or attempts to lay) tremendous guilt on the opponent.

My feelings about illegal immigrants (and I believe the vast majority of opponents) have NOTHING to do with the color or race of the people. My issue is that it's illegal. I can't get away with doing some things that I'd like to do because they're illegal, I don't understand why people who aren't even citizens of this country should be allowed to break the laws of this country that I'm forbidden to break. Nobody can explain that to me.

Thank you, Grady. Unfortunately, I can't get insurance here because I have had breast cancer. And I have to take meds to control a seizure condition. I have been buying those meds from Canada since I lost my insurance. I buy from a very reputable site. I had no idea that it might be illegal since my doctor advised me to do it, but I wasn't sure when it was brought up. It probably will be illegal one day, though.






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