The Perfect Warrior

I've noticed a few times that people mentioned the idea of the US government making Super Soldiers so I wondered, in your opinion what qualities should a Super Soldier posses? Obviously fearlessness, a reduced ability to feel pain, more strength and stamina and flawless hand-eye co-ordination but what else? a 'Suicide gland' so they cant be interrorgated?

what do you think?

If you let hollywood get to them, theyll also have super-seductive voices, perfect abs, know exactly how to woo women, and will always be firing assault rifles one-handed for extended periods of time.


On a serious note, wireless data uplink nodes inside their heads, more visions than just plain visible-light, inceased learning capacity, lack of emotion, and some crazy kung-fu moves would be pretty nice. DARPA, I hope you're reading this!!!

I've heard rumers of the governments experimenting with smart drugs. I think any new age super soldier would, after years of training on smart drugs, have superhuman abilites. I think force push or pull and bullet dodging might be realistic.

Actually these "super soldier" theories’s have a basis in reality. I don’t think they’re far enough to make "robo-sapiens" but I’m sure they’re working on it. Take my word for what its worth but an Ex-Ranger who’s also a family friend told me he took part in an experiment where Spec Ops soldiers were given a type of liquid that increase their strength, stamina and awareness. According to him it worked, but it also made your heart swell up beyond normal levels and it caused very high blood pressure which in turn created numerous other problems. So I think in the short term, pills and drinks that reduce your dependency on food and sleep while increasing your strength and awareness are likely to come out.

For a historical basis I would suggest some of you research the New Model Army begun by Oliver Cromwel in the English Civil war.

Here is a leader who founded a different type of army in his day which was never defeated in battle yet suffered remarkably low casualtys for the hardships of the campaigns carried out.

Up until the New Model Army the Roundheads as they were sometimes called were losing the Civil War to the Cavaliers. After the New Model Army the Roundheads never looked back.

Yet intrestingly enough this is hardly mentioned in history compared to the significance of it.

As I recall up until this period in history battles were sort of a mixed bag of sides meeting in the field and just slugging it out till one group was left standing.

What Cromwell did and is recorded was diciplined his forces so that in the midst of a battle at the command they could reform quickly and go on the offensive again. A concept not done by most armys in those days. Quick maneuverability and flexability used over and over in different battles by Cromwell with success.

Cromwell chose men with Zeal and purpose for soldiers ..not olde men , drunkards, tapsters and serving men...but men with purpose and who understood their purpose. Quite a accomplishment in those days.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Originally posted by orangetom1999

For a historical basis I would suggest some of you research the New Model Army begun by Oliver Cromwel in the English Civil war.

Here is a leader who founded a different type of army in his day which was never defeated in battle yet suffered remarkably low casualtys for the hardships of the campaigns carried out.

Up until the New Model Army the Roundheads as they were sometimes called were losing the Civil War to the Cavaliers. After the New Model Army the Roundheads never looked back.

Yet intrestingly enough this is hardly mentioned in history compared to the significance of it.

As I recall up until this period in history battles were sort of a mixed bag of sides meeting in the field and just slugging it out till one group was left standing.

What Cromwell did and is recorded was diciplined his forces so that in the midst of a battle at the command they could reform quickly and go on the offensive again. A concept not done by most armys in those days. Quick maneuverability and flexability used over and over in different battles by Cromwell with success.

Cromwell chose men with Zeal and purpose for soldiers ..not olde men , drunkards, tapsters and serving men...but men with purpose and who understood their purpose. Quite a accomplishment in those days.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Gee, the worlds first documented football game. How could historians have overlooked /that/?

Seriously, there is a lot to be said for invoking a 'group will' to a given activity in much the same manner as team sports are trained for and yet it was not always intuitively a given that this should be the way it was done. Knights sat their horse and infantry were cannonfodder levies of whatever a given landholder to scratch-force bring together to meet his fealty requirements.

Having said, organized militaries do go back as far as the Phalanx or beyond (I imagine the group hunting activities of neanderthal or cromagnon might be considered a 'thicket of spears and flames' early form of coordinated martial teamwork, given the size and density of the natural threats they faced...).

Now, is that a 'good thing' these days?

IMO, no. Easy comms and cheap explosives as well as autofire weapons make group targets far too readily identified. Yet as the recent losses of soldiers in both Iraq and Israel point out, being alone as a human largely reduces you to being the victim of kidnap/hostaging no matter what (and a suicide option here is probably a god send compared to what has been done by the wondrous native wildlife in the ME).

Having said that, the items of necessity for me are:

1. Absolute invulnerability from area or point attack antipersonnel weapons of the coming generation. Whether that be combined ultrasound/microwave 'fear field generators', ADW surface conductance heat weapons or lasers and other means of direct attack. Because those will be the systems by which small forces defend themselves against large or sudden-onset hordes.

2. High capacity onboard secure electrical generation. Sufficient to run imbedded comms, maps and targeting gear with redundancy in all apertures (i.e. competing system volumes). With 100% reserve generation for extreme environment heating and cooling and later addition of DEWS.

3. Heavy Weight Armor Without Mobility Loss.
Sufficient to stop .50 sniper/SPR rounds. While maintaining high agility in all four principle axes of movement and the ability to negotiate a 20% gradient and a 3ft obstacle. Redundancy here probably means motor-on-hub wheels with an independent hydraulic chassis lift system.

4. Mixed Weapons Systems with both less than lethal, lethal to 100m, lethal to 1,000m and explosive fires integrated into a single weapon/tube cluster environmentally shielded and armored against direct attack.

5. Secondary scouting systems. At least three. Though 1+1 if a flyer would be an option. This to AVOID direct exposure while sensing as much as shooting from defilade. The ground unit would likely have to have it's own weapons system (poison darts, microexplosives or tazer technology) but would otherwise only be required to negotiate a human level environment. Implying a walker of somekind, possibly with at least one manipulative, extensible, reversible fingered, hand. The aircraft needs to be VTOL and capable of 120 minutes of unrefueled flight with sensors feeding data back to the unit or another relay platform but no weapons requirement.

6. It needs to be cheap, hardy, easy to manufacture and modular. Assume that it takes 60,000 dollars to pay and train a raw recruit from off the street to fully Basic+Infantry School capable generic rifleman category. Assume that he has another 100 grande in death benefit. Each vehicle, including all onboard packages should cost no more than half of this. Repair in the field should be a function of complete (failed drive train on one chassis-arm = replace the arm) modular switchout while upgrades should be similarly accomplished with a plug'n'play architecture that is secure against most hacking (unique BIOS encrypt). You should be able to make no less than 100 per month at a single factory to ensure rapid standup of a force that needs no further training or preparation before wooden-round delivery to storage or combat. This means sealed hydraulics or electro-pneumatic actuation.

7. Upgrades Should Be Preplanned.
To include secure networking and navigation, combat and eventually /mission/ autonomy using a staged improvement program with ACTD demonstrations (i.e. open patents) and easy spiral slip or coupled additions that can be applied to new models or existing inventory WITHOUT disrupting current production (i.e. total cradle to grave support capabilities from the system integrator and an attitude of cooperation when demand exceeds load and work must be laid off to other companies.

CONCLUSION:
Obviously I come down hard on the 'battle droids beat clone troops' side of the Star Wars argument. Simply because, until you are willing to invest high level GE technology (currently not even /legal/ in this country) into the poorest and dumbest of our societies desperate hopefuls, none of the Super Soldier crap will ever come to pass. And even IF it does, you are still looking at a man all too easy to kill with total loss of a 300,000 dollar and 20 year
'training cycle.' I suppose if high level psionics were involved, things might be different but frankly the kinds of things I would be looking for there would be precog and intuitive pattern matching along with long range clairvoyance and telepathy. All items which are better vested in an HQ environment than on the battlefield.
Either way, so long as we insist on risking moronically vulnerable human assets on a battlefield where all engagements are functionally about survival rather than victory, we cannot do better than to augment existing human capabilities with _mechanical not biologic_ systems additions. A normal man with a properly designed exoskeleton being able to outrun a super-athlete while carrying more gear for instance.


KPl.

what i think would be cool is if they tried to implant, lion or tiger eyes in some soldiers so they could see crystal clear at night, and not have to wear NG's,

Originally posted by WestPoint23
So I think in the short term, pills and drinks that reduce your dependency on food and sleep while increasing your strength and awareness are likely to come out.

They are already out there , its called amphetamine

speed

stimulants

The last link especially says "In light of their value to mission accomplishment—especially in the absence of demonstrable negative effects—the ban on ampethetamines should be rescinded."

The Future Force Warrior program the US Army is running is interesting, OK so a fancy suit doesn't make much of a Super Soldier but it is still worth a look in my opinion

www.military.com...

I wonder if Australia will get to see/use this?

Actually I was thinking more along the lines of this. I think the military has more in mind for the future than ordinary drugs.

WASHINGTON, Feb. 28, 2000 -- U.S. combat troops may get part of their daily diet through their arms if a new concept works out.

Army Soldier Center researchers in Natick, Mass., are working on a transdermal nutrient delivery system -- a skin patch similar in concept to nicotine and motion sickness patches. The new system could be a part of every combat service member’s kit by 2025.

The idea is to keep the warfighter’s cognitive and physical performance sharpened at the optimal level,” Darsch said. “It could mean fewer dead or wounded U.S. service members.”

The Model Army I see is a draft army. I don’t know how to do it exactly, because we have 1.75 million men and women coming of age - 18 - each year. The civilians in charge of the Pentagon say we need about 750,000 extra soldiers to do the mission they - the civilians - have assigned the Pentagon, in their dreams. The old time USMC “grunt” or USA “ground pounder” soldier was retained for 2 years to get back the investment in the rather simple training. Today’s training is far more complex and at least 3 years service is de minimus. From the taxpayer’s POV. We cannot train all the new soldiers at one time, so we’d need a 3 year build-up period. That means we’d draft - men and women in equal numbers - about 125,000 of each sex per year. Total of 250,000.

How do we avoid the fault that dealt the death knell to the citizen army in the late 1960s? Which was the rich and famous escaping risky duty and the dangersous duty borne by the poor and poorer. Disproportionally. I suggesst a gunine lottery, done each year. There are many other ways to perform public duty to fulfill a citizen’s obligation to his or her country. That is only a problem if we make it one.

Aside: I find it curious to see the Holy Writ so often bandied about.

I have seen quoted Ezekial 25, verse
17. "The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children; and I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers and you will know I am the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you."

Not recognizing the words or the content, I dragged out my old - from my mother’s estate - and tattered copy of the King James Version and flipped it open to Ezekial chapter 25, and I skimmed town to verse
17. “And I will execute great vengeance upon them with furious rebukes; and they shall know that I am the LORD, when I shall lay my vengeance upon them.”

So what’s up here? Is the first version a Bush43 psy-ops expanded edition of the Holy Writ? What I'd call the CRV. Cheney Rumsfeld versoins. It this the specific biblical authority intended to give cover to among other outrages, our evil practice of torture? Worse, the practice of rendition? Not to say its illegal and unlawful. I was curious. And I still am.

Resume. For taxpayer relief, I’d fix pay levels for the first 3 years of mandatory service at $500 - $600 a month. Say for E1 to E3. As a sop or reward for good service, a genuine GI Bill for education. Accumulated at a day and a half of benefit period for each day served honorable, up to 4 years in college or tech school. All tuition, books, fees, lodging and a meal card would be paid for by the US. (No institutional price gouging allowed. Period.) Plus an allowance for each attendee with passing grades of $800 month. For C+, the allowance goes to $900 a month, and for B+ and higher, $1,000 a month. Two screw-ups and you’re out of the program.


[edit on 7/19/2006 by donwhite]

Originally posted by donwhite
So what’s up here? Is the first version a Bush43 psy-Ops expanded edition of the Holy Writ? It this the specific biblical authority to giver cover to among other outrages, our evil practice of torture? Worse, the practice of rendition? Not to say its illegal and unlawful. I was curious. And I still am.

I’m not a religious person so don’t look for a deeper meaning into signatures I happen to have with a reference to it. So to sum it all up, ever watched Pulp Fiction?

posted by WestPoint23
I’m not a religious person so don’t look for a deeper meaning into signatures . . So to sum it all up, ever watched Pulp Fiction? [Edited by Don W]

No, WP23, I have not, but that is likely due to my preferences than to any other reason. I’m into History channel. Discovery channel. PBS. And etc. What channel would I find PF on?

Thx.



[edit on 7/19/2006 by donwhite]

So am I, educational television is rewarding but once in a while a good movie doesn’t hurt.
Pulp Fiction is scheduled to air on the Independent Film Channel (IFC) on July 28th at 8:15 PM. I cant say if you will like it or not but in my view it’s a good movie.

Pulp Fictoin. 154 min. Very long for me to stay awake. I dozed in Superman 2. But I was with 2 of my grand-nieces and had in my earplugs. Hmm?