We shouldn't back Israel. Why should we? What do they offer us? We give them billions, they sell technology to China. They have offered us nothing but a few spies in the US to make sure the government was not going to betray them and leave them for the dogs. We shouldn't support ANYONE in that god forsaken region. When Israel does something for AMERICA, then maybe we should consider it. And I am Jewish by family, and still don't care about the Arabs and/or Israelites/Jews in the region. They both hate & they both cause problems. The unfortunate in this situation are the innocents on both sides.

Maybe we should just be coward, not support pre emptive strikes and wait for the net time when they strike us here in the United States. You can't be a coward for life it comes a time when we have to take a stand and fight back against these pathetic terrorists who uses God's name to commit acts of violence.

Originally posted by nickmyers32USA
Maybe we should just be coward, not support pre emptive strikes and wait for the net time when they strike us here in the United States. You can't be a coward for life it comes a time when we have to take a stand and fight back against these pathetic terrorists who uses God's name to commit acts of violence.

No maybe we should perfect America's government and foreign policy and domestic policy before going to wars to influence other countries. Maybe we should perfect national security (like ummmm, the Mexican border), before we go train other security forces in other countries. Maybe we should deal with social problems and programs in the US instead of creating them in other countries. Maybe we should spend 400 billion+ dollars spent in Iraq so far, and put that towards social security/medicare. Maybe we should create more & better equiped special op forces for terrrorists and go behind the scenes to infiltrate terrorist organizations instead of attacking countries creating a worse image for America and thus creating more hate and desire for terrorism towards us. Did ya ever think of that nicky?

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor
Maybe we should spend 400 billion+ dollars spent in Iraq so far, and put that towards social security/medicare. Maybe we should create more & better equiped special op forces for terrrorists and go behind the scenes to infiltrate terrorist organizations instead of attacking countries creating a worse image for America and thus creating more hate and desire for terrorism towards us. Did ya ever think of that nicky?

The 400bil for our benefits sounds great to me!

Not for nothing but if we are on better grounds diplomatically in the ME there would be no use for special forces...at least not for our protection.

Not for nothing but if we are on better grounds diplomatically in the ME there would be no use for special forces...at least not for our protection.

I agree with one thing that nick said, about Islamic fanaticism. That needs to be erradicated. I don't agree with attacking anyone over it, because it is just ineffective. CIA sponsorship in assasinations such as huge trouble makers supporting terrorists would be much more effective. And special op forces infiltrating groups and killing the leaders and destroying their means of getting money, while helping the Middle Eastern people (through other means like building schools and hospitals) would be much more effective. Islamic fanaticism cannot exist in governments. Just like Christian fanaticism can't either, or any other religion. Make the Middle East democratic through through the people. Let THEM want it. Let them see that the Western way seems better than the terrorist organizations. Right now, they don't see that. And how could they see that? The West has screwed them more than anyone else, and then attacks a country, and brings its influence and corporations and armies. What a screwy way to change things

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor
. And special op forces infiltrating groups and killing the leaders and destroying their means of getting money, while helping the Middle Eastern people (through other means like building schools and hospitals) would be much more effective. Islamic fanaticism cannot exist in governments. Just like Christian fanaticism can't either, or any other religion. Make the Middle East democratic through through the people. Let THEM want it. Let them see that the Western way seems better than the terrorist organizations. Right now, they don't see that. And how could they see that? The West has screwed them more than anyone else, and then attacks a country, and brings its influence and corporations and armies. What a screwy way to change things

Retinoid
You hit the nail on the head. What is it that everyone brags about when it comes to Israel? Their secret service? their shavak? their shin beit? their mossad? their IDF & IAF? What are some of these services notable for? Political Assasination? Kidnapping? Espionage? Sabotage? Their technology in developing new weaponry?A Knesset rife with corruption probably paralleled only by our own?
This is our shining example of Democracy in action in the Middle East. If I was a Middle easterner..I think I'd probably want to stick with having a fat assed rich king with the fat Cohiba cigar, a rolls royce,The Ferrari and all the hot white chicks hanging on his arm and not hundreds of KM's,MP's all with their hands in the till.


Pie

So we attempt to negotiate with terrorist then that would love nothing more than to kill us and our familities now and generations to come. Diplomacy is a strong weapon, but it can't always be applied. Even the ligitamate Lebanesse government knows this and so does the majority of young people in Iran who would love nothing more than to live in a free society.
We need to deal with problems when they arise. Im not saying that things could have been done differently in the past. But thats why they call it the past. We need to look toward the future and do everything possible to eliminate terrorism throughout the world, if we don't we become vulurnable and we pass this deadly problem on to our future generations and thus put them at risk. We didnt go looking for this fight but we sure have the power to stop it and eliminate it. We just have to be willing to make some sacrifices now for the greater good and security of our future.

I invite you, the people of US and Europe, to Keryat Shmona, To Sderot, to Haifa, to the entire norten land of Israel,

Its sooo easy to sit half way around the world, open the news, see the IAF bombing Beirut and going "omg, look at those bad Isrealis bombing that country back to the stone age".

But untill you havent came here, and experianced in person what is having your home land bombed day after day after day by rockets, fearing to go in to a bus, or walking close to the road, cuz some van will stop and hijack you.

Untill you havent been placed in our shoes, dont be so quick to condemn us,

And for those who said our technology is inferior, then why are most of the avionic systems on the F-35 and F-22 are Israeli made ? why is the world most advanced figher uses systems that are infirior to anything that the US can produce ?

And Israel, is getting the same amount of funding as Egypt.....


[edit on 18-7-2006 by Kurnas]

what ? no comment ? no comment from Oilwar,Pieman,Blueprint? or any other members I can name ?

Originally posted by BombLord
what ? no comment ? no comment from Oilwar,Pieman,Blueprint? or any other members I can name ?

You want my comment? Ok here it is my personal opinion on the matter:

As badly as I feel that humans are killing humans, do not expect me to feel sorry any longer for a people who are constantly punishing an entire race of people for the actions of a minority. Instead of asking Americans and Europeans to come and visit you over there, why don't you go and stay down in Gaza with a Palestinian family and see what they must go through, it probably won't be so comfortable as to have the security and safety of a bomb shelter like some israelis do, but maybe then you will get a feel for something even worse then fearing the occasional suicide bomber or Qassam rocket. Maybe hearing the roar of a tank in the middle of the night with machine guns blazing, while Apache Helicopters shoot missles overhead might be the sounds that accompany you in the night when most children should be sleeping and dreaming of good dreams with smiles on their faces as they sleep.

See how you would like it to be like that. Never mind us going to see what its like right now while a force thats much more powerful then the Palestinians attack you.
You cry about Palestinians kids throwing rocks, or when Peace Advocates accidently fall under your tanks and you blame it on them, They should not be there or its the stupid Palestinian kids parents fault they didn't teach him to stay away from the tanks. You cry when the UN says you are being too tough, they are Anti-semetic, You cry when Human Rights Organizations make complaints , they are Pro-Arab..always always always its someone elses fault! Never your own when will you admit you are in the wrong? Thats when these things happen. You have fooled yourself into thinking that you are always in the right because of rich powerful american politicians who ensure that your image is upheld by always vetoing any major resolutions lodged against you. Look back and see how many times if it wasn't for the US veto your country , and your military leaders would have been in deep trouble. Think back on some of your ancestors and what they went through. How can you treat anyone else so badly after all your people have been through? That has always amazed me and so many other Americans that I know, all of whom are good decent people.

Stop calling the Palestinians Beggars and Dogs. Without the good heart of the American people and many of whom are also hard working Palestinian Americans you would not be where you are. Think about why they are reduced to begging! There farms are partitioned, their houses are crushed, they must travel to your side of the border WHEN/IF the borders are open, and if the Border guard wishes to let them pass, you close the borders for days at a time when you know they cannot recieve supplies, and I'm sure they recieve jobs that even a Mexican immigrant would not want to do in the USA just to feed his family.

There is more but Im just too aggravated right now after Bomblords idiotic comment about attacking a hospital in Lebanon. I have never called for people to be killed in as much as I am critical of your leaders in government. I have 3 children and I would not wish that on any man/womans children.

Kurnas,
I agree with you and I hope that you stay safe. I can say that a great majority of United States citizens agree with you and support the actions that are underway. How can Israel negotiate with these murderous thugs that call themselves Hezbollah? They can't Its pathetic that Hezbollah is using civilian houses to fire rockets into Israel. This just shows the type of people we are dealing with. Israel is in every right to defend itself from such barbaric attacks. And then you have Iran calling for the total anihalation of Israel not to mention the rest of the west. These problems also need to be dealt with. Israel has every right to take any actions necissary to defend its citizens from these senseless acts of terror. I as an American citizen offer my full support for the Israeli campaign against terror and the regimes that support it.