The legacy of woman’s rights to our society

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posted on Jul, 17 2006 @ 03:13 PM
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First of all thanks for the responses everybody, wellwhatnow is nice to have an expert opinion on the matters of social issues, I will love to see some threads by you.

I imagine that you may have lots of references on this topic.

Now on the topic . . . while women movement has help us ladies to have some equality in society and in the beginning it was a big huge step for these women to even think that they could one day be side by side to their fellow man still we do not really hold the same status that they do.

Our society is a Male dominate society, most women in the working force work the same jobs as a male but a woman will make less.

Even with education is very hard to get the same benefits that our male counterpart gets.

Sometimes while I am a very independent and strong minded person and I will not change anything that we women have achieved, I wonder if the downside of these liberties may be damaging what we have grown and learn to understand in society as family values.

Our value has change dramatically since woman got out of the kitchen and into the work force.

Are we taking away the role of the male and stripping them off their manhood?




posted on Jul, 17 2006 @ 03:25 PM
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In my opinion, the women's movement has done nothing to strip men of their manhood, whatever that might mean. What has happened is that traditional men's roles have been blurred somewhat, but largely, society still expects of men what was expected 100 years ago: find work, get married and support a family.

Women on the other hand have many socially acceptable choices relative to what was available 100 years ago. Single motherhood is a badge of honor. Marriage is okay. Work is fine, but so is staying home to raise the kids. Kids? Well, that's the issue that's given the word choice a bad reputation.

I think we should focus more on women, since that's where we started. Tangents are fine, but let's keep some focus here.


Perhaps the better question is, What is the impact of the women's movement on the family?

Grady

[edit on 2006/7/17 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Jul, 17 2006 @ 03:42 PM
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The earliest feminist are now being referred to as "first wave feminists" and the current feminists are being labelled "second wave feminists."

The first wavers have, on the whole, been very disappointed with second wavers because many women now are actually wanting to be housewives.

The first wave fought for women to be granted equal opportunity in education, employment, and other areas of course. Now that women have come very close to having equal opportunities in these areas, some are staying home to raise children.

We see that a major difference is that first wavers wanted to be educated and active in the work force, while second wavers want to have the choice between (or balance containing both) career and family.

I can understand that having the choice or having both is fantastic, but I can also see why the first wave is so disappointed. It is because we stopped fighting. What we have done is to stop half way through the battle. Now we are often expected to have a career and work the "second shift" (cooking, cleaning, and raising children). We still live in a culture were our worth as women is sometimes determined more by our waste size than our IQ. Raising children is not even looked upon as a genuine contribution to society. We still make only 80 cents to a man's dollar yet we have more expenses. We still are given medications that are only approved for use on men.

As long as we live in a culture where women are expected to hide their faces and uncover their bodies (we should wear make up and something low cut) then we still have work to do - we are not free or liberated.



posted on Jul, 17 2006 @ 03:57 PM
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Originally posted by wellwhatnow
Raising children is not even looked upon as a genuine contribution to society.


I have to disagree with you there. A lot has changed in the past oh 8 years. I have not come across someone with that point of view in years. In fact, I have had many people, men, women, teachers, you name it. Thank me for staying home with my kids, and tell me how they wish more people would. A lot of people watch the news now and see a bunch of kids who had to grow up on their own, with no parents around until maybe dinner time. BEFORE anyone harps on me for that comment, lemme finish. A lot of parents single or married, get so occupied with work and what not, that when they are home, they are off doing something else, more work, computer, phone, out with friends, what ever. No time for the kiddos...go to sleep quick....stay out of my hair. Well, a lot of people are seeing what happens as a result, and lets just say that family time around the dinner table is making a big come back.

Living a new way comes with making adjustments. At first it is hard core, then things lighten back and forth until a balance is found. Because of those women, we have choices, we have respect, and we have a voice. Because of the women now, we are learning how to find balance.

[edit on 17-7-2006 by mrsdudara]



posted on Jul, 17 2006 @ 03:58 PM
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Originally posted by wellwhatnow
We still make only 80 cents to a man's dollar yet we have more expenses. We still are given medications that are only approved for use on men.


Controlling for variables such as education and tenure, women make as much as men. I'd like to know what employer would dare pay women less than men for the same work, taking into consideration all the variables related to salary and wage.

It is not safe to test some drugs on women of child-bearing years because of the effect that drugs can have on both the woman and her unborn. Drug tests are potentially dangerous to the subjects regardless of the precautions that are taken and subjects must be volunteers. Again, this statement depends on many variables that have not been considered.



Raising children is not even looked upon as a genuine contribution to society.


"The hand that rocks the cradle rules the world."


[edit on 2006/7/17 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Jul, 17 2006 @ 04:02 PM
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I agree with you . . . is very stressful when we have to manage work, home and satisfy our husbands or partners need and be energetic in a daily basis.

I guess we can not have it all after all even if we think that we can.

For some reason I have made my daughter grow up with a goal of a career first, good job and then family.

Like Grady said the role of man is very simple and it has not change much.

But as we woman has gained more responsibilities in society we seem to be getting a bigger burden in our shoulders.




[edit on 17-7-2006 by marg6043]



posted on Jul, 17 2006 @ 04:07 PM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Do you have a model of successful matriarchy for us to examine or are you suggesting anarchy and is there a successful model for that?[edit on 2006/7/16 by GradyPhilpott]


Grady, while not quite a matriarchy, the Mosuo in China come pretty darned close. There was recently and excellent documentary about them on PBS. Unique culture. Difficult to categorize.



posted on Jul, 17 2006 @ 04:13 PM
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Thanks, Hamburgler. That's certainly a different model, though I'm not certain it is a preferable one.



posted on Jul, 17 2006 @ 06:00 PM
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Originally posted by mrsdudara


I have to disagree with you there. A lot has changed in the past oh 8 years. I have not come across someone with that point of view in years. In fact, I have had many people, men, women, teachers, you name it. Thank me for staying home with my kids, and tell me how they wish more people would. A lot of people watch the news now and see a bunch of kids who had to grow up on their own, with no parents around until maybe dinner time. BEFORE anyone harps on me for that comment, lemme finish. A lot of parents single or married, get so occupied with work and what not, that when they are home, they are off doing something else, more work, computer, phone, out with friends, what ever. No time for the kiddos...go to sleep quick....stay out of my hair. Well, a lot of people are seeing what happens as a result, and lets just say that family time around the dinner table is making a big come back.

Living a new way comes with making adjustments. At first it is hard core, then things lighten back and forth until a balance is found. Because of those women, we have choices, we have respect, and we have a voice. Because of the women now, we are learning how to find balance.

[edit on 17-7-2006 by mrsdudara]


just browse through the posts on this forum, I'm sure you will find quite a few who don't see the stay at home mom as being of much worth....

if they considered the contribution that she gave to society, and to them as or any worth, you wouldn't be hearing so much screaching about how unfair it all is now...they work hard all day to get what they have, and then one day, well, she decides to leave...or maybe he doesn, and low and behold, now she gets half of everything he's worked so hard for....

what do they think she was doing while he was working so hard, having tea parties?

I've come from a long line of working mothers, single mothers, as well as widowed mothers, back four generations at least. both my mom and dad worked, they had to. my grandmother had her husband split on her, she raised my father on her own, and worked outside the home. my greatgrandmother was left with two children when her husband fell off the roof, she sewed in her home, along with her kids, to earn her keep. I don't see where we kids were harmed in any way, my father was very well adjusted person, my grandmother was also.

there's two points I am making, working mothers are not that rare in history, they've always been around, it seems like the only women who get to enjoy that lifestyle are those that are well off financially, although there are many that are kind of forced into that situation, because of circumstances they have little power to control. And, it isn't as enjoyable if you have hungry kids, or sick uninsured kids and the power to do anything about it has been stripped from you. and two, it has less of an impact on the child's wellbeing than some would have us to believe.



posted on Jul, 17 2006 @ 07:49 PM
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Wow, great responses all.

mrsdudara:
I still believe that there is a certain hierarchy when it comes to work. On one end of the spectrum you might find jobs like burger flipper, and on the other end there are jobs like brain surgeon. I still think that “housewife” falls below the center point on that spectrum. When someone asks the question, “What do you do?” it usually implies what we do to earn money, even though raising children is much more challenging. As I said, there have been changes in how we, as a society, define families. With those changes in definition, I think women, and their work (both paid and unpaid) have made progress. No doubt there are those that truly value homemakers, but I believe that overall, they are still undervalued. If there is another way for me to look at this, then let me know. Give me more information to consider.



posted on Jul, 17 2006 @ 07:50 PM
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In response to GradyPhilpott:
Income inequality does happen, not always on purpose, but it happens. Lets say that a man a women are both eligible for a raise. The man has more experience, but the woman has a degree. The company can give the raise to the man because he has more experience. This isn’t considered discrimination in the least, nor should it be. What happens if the man has a degree and the woman has more experience? The company can still give the raise to the man because he has a degree. Either way, the company can easily defend its actions and is not considered to be practicing any form of discrimination.

Here is some interesting info:

Income Inequality



posted on Jul, 17 2006 @ 08:02 PM
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Originally posted by wellwhatnow
Income Inequality


Do you think NOW might have an agenda? While I certainly respect the political persuasions of all, relying on ideology-based sources for data is not exactly, well, fair.

Again, the subject of this thread is the impact of the women's movement on society and whether that impact has been positive or negative, or something like that.



posted on Jul, 17 2006 @ 08:21 PM
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Yes the issue of working place equality and who is losing at the end could make a great topic on it's own.

Wellwhatnow, bring it on with a thread of your own, I will bring some good research and statistic also.


At the end it all comes to what we women has given up to run side by side with men in society and to say that we have freedoms.

Women before us stood their ground many almost lost their lives for the right to vote even going to jail and leaving their families behind.

Still I feel that we have not advanced much after the initial push.

I wonder if many women in todays society will want to step down to easy the burden that they have put on their shoulders in their road to equality.



posted on Jul, 17 2006 @ 11:21 PM
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Here's an article with up-to-date data regarding the subject at hand:



Women and Class: What Has Happened in Forty Years?

Forty years ago this summer, a group of women and men came together to form the National Organization for Women (NOW). NOW’s mission was to fight for gender equality through education and litigation. While not the only group fighting for women’s rights, it quickly became one of the best known and largest. Today, NOW has over a half million members and over 500 chapters throughout the country. NOW was founded at a time when women were entering the paid labor force in increasing numbers. NOW had its critics: many said it ignored race and class, others said it was too focused on liberal feminist legal strategies like passing the Equal Rights Amendment.

monthlyreview


The facts might surprise many.



[edit on 2006/7/17 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Jul, 18 2006 @ 04:05 AM
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People object to the demands of those whom they choose to call the strong-minded, because they say 'the right of suffrage will make the women masculine.' That is just the difficulty in which we are involved today. Though disfranchised, we have few women in the best sense; we have simply so many reflections, varieties, and dilutions of the masculine gender. The strong, natural characteristics of womanhood are repressed and ignored in dependence, for so long as man feeds woman she will try to please the giver and adapt herself to his condition. To keep a foothold in society, woman must be as near like man as possible, reflect his ideas, opinions, virtues, motives, prejudices, and vices. She must respect his statutes, though they strip her of every inalienable right, and conflict with that higher law written by the finger of God on her own soul.

Elizabeth Cady Stanton

1868

must of been prewave, huh???

ya know, for some reason, I don't think these early feminists would have considered women being a reflection of the government for their daily bread a suitable alternative...

equality of wages, the ability of women to earn a fair wage is a necessary part of the feminist movement...

[edit on 18-7-2006 by dawnstar]



posted on Jul, 18 2006 @ 09:04 AM
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Originally posted by wellwhatnow
When someone asks the question, “What do you do?” it usually implies what we do to earn money, even though raising children is much more challenging.


I have not taken it that way. I guess because I know that by staying home, I am saving us about as much money as I would make. From child care, gas, clothes, food, the list goes on further than some may think. Someone mentioned that those well off can stay home. Not true.


No doubt there are those that truly value homemakers, but I believe that overall, they are still undervalued. If there is another way for me to look at this, then let me know. Give me more information to consider.


I really do not feel undervalued at all, by anyone. That is me personally though. Those of us who are homemakers dont just work in the home. We volunteer our time at schools, and other places that only run on volunteers. There are a lot of people who depend on us not just our families.



I too come from a long line of single or working mothers. My great grandma was left. She made ends meet by raising rabbits and selling fur. My grandma, had to work to make ends meet especially when my grandpa was at war. My mother was a stay at home mom, who worked at home or part time so to send my sister to school to be a teacher. After I graduated from high school, my dad up and left her.

I am working on a way right now to insure the financial safety for homemakers so that none who take on the responsibility are left in the mud.

I really believe that women have come a long way, and though I believe society is better off now, I cant wait to see how much better we become over the next 50 years.



posted on Jul, 18 2006 @ 01:00 PM
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I have been in both sides of the table, been a homemaker and then been in the world of business, back and forth depending on my needs and the needs of my family at the time.

That is the problem, women has to make decisions that before were not part of our wife-mother-homemaker status.

Woman are not longer slaves to their husbands and homes.

Well while we do not need to stay in relationships that are demeaning and abusive I tend to feel sometimes that we just trade one type of slavery for another.

We just change one master for another.

Now we are slaves of our works and still have to serve the role of motherhood.

We just changed priorities of who the master is . . .



posted on Jul, 18 2006 @ 01:06 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043

... I tend to feel sometimes that we just trade one type of slavery for another.

We just change one master for another.

Now we are slaves of our works and still have to serve the role of motherhood.

We just changed priorities of who the master is . . .




Uh huh.



Too, too true.

.



posted on Jul, 18 2006 @ 01:48 PM
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Very well put Marg.

A womans got to do what a womans got to do. No matter how stinkey, or unfair it is.


I must say though, there are some men out there who could take on a few more responsibilities when the woman has to work too. I have seen quite a few that think their day is over when they clock out, and leave everything else up to the mom to take care of even though she has been working all day too.

[edit on 18-7-2006 by mrsdudara]

[edit on 18-7-2006 by mrsdudara]



posted on Jul, 18 2006 @ 01:54 PM
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mrsdudara

Very truth mrsdudara but thinkg like this make me wonder if we truly have gotten the equality and freedoms that we now seem to cherish so much.

At the end of a very long and tiring day when we need to go and take care of our home, children and if you have it a husband it makes some of us wonder.


[edit on 18-7-2006 by marg6043]





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