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Crusades & Holy Alliances

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posted on Jul, 16 2006 @ 01:22 AM

“We will not participate in any crusades,
in any holy alliances”

Vladimir Putin
G8 News Conference
St Petersburg, Russia
July 15, 2006

Q Can I ask, what did you take President Putin to mean when he said that they wouldn't participate in any crusades or any holy alliances? What was that a reference to?

MR. HADLEY: You know, I asked myself the same question. (Laughter.)

Q Did you get an answer? (Laughter.)

MR. HADLEY: I'm still taking it under advisement. (Laughter.) I'm going to let myself know what I think a little bit later.

The modern UNholy Alliance
usurps God and makes democracy
the almighty sovereign !

The fourth crusade was called by the Pope.

It was supposed to free Palestine from the
infidels. But actually was used to destroy
and Latinize the Orthodox Byzantine Empire.

The Orthodox Byzantine capital, Constantinople,
was first taken on July 17, 1203.

Do you see the analogy ?

[edit on 16-7-2006 by Ivanova]

posted on Jul, 16 2006 @ 01:33 AM
So you're suggesting that Putin is serving notice of Russia's resignation from the United Nations? If so, you're wrong. Russia's into joining things these days -- G8, the WTO and all those other organizations New World Order fantasists are so afraid of -- not leaving them.

Or did you mean something else? Your post isn't terribly easy to understand, I'm afraid.

posted on Jul, 16 2006 @ 01:38 AM

I didn't mention the UN.

But, now that you mention it,
it is part of the global democratic
UNholy Alliance.

posted on Jul, 16 2006 @ 01:53 AM

Originally posted by Astyanax

Or did you mean something else? Your post isn't terribly easy to understand, I'm afraid.

The Whitehouse didn't understand Tsar Vladimir's comments either.

To understand, one needs an educated grasp of history... one needs to
know what the original " Holy Alliance " was... and how democracy has
replaced God as the Sovereign in a modern " UNholy Alliance " ! Also...
one needs to know the relationship between Russia and Orthodox Byzantium
which was destroyed and Latinized as a result of the West's Fourth Crusade.


posted on Jul, 16 2006 @ 01:55 AM
In that case, I misunderstood what you meant by UNholy alliance. I now understand that you were capitalizing the first two letters in order to pun on 'holy alliance'. So what do you mean, really? That Russia will refuse to join a new alliance with Austria and Germany (since Prussia doesn't exist as an independent state any more)? Or that Russia will refuse to join the EU (I don't remember anyone asking it to)? Or... what?

Could you please (for the second time of asking) make yourself a little clearer?

posted on Jul, 16 2006 @ 01:58 AM
And yes, I know all about the Fourth Crusade and the sack of Byzantium and the historical connection between Muscovy and Byzantium. I've read The Decline & Fall of the Roman Empire. Now tell me again, what exactly do you mean?

posted on Jul, 16 2006 @ 02:02 AM
I just think that Putin likes to hear himself talk sometimes. His remarks are worth a grain of salt. Should Russia even be a part of the G-8 ???

posted on Jul, 16 2006 @ 02:02 AM

Originally posted by Astyanax

Now tell me again, what exactly do you mean?

It's more important to know exactly what
Tsar Vladimir means !

You will know soon enough !

posted on Jul, 16 2006 @ 02:17 AM
I think Putin is bascially saying he will not put his russian military into the the mix when the west intervenes with Israel, Iran and the middleast.

Crusades? doesnt that ring a bell?

posted on Jul, 16 2006 @ 07:57 AM
Guess he means he will not get involved in any war about God, G-d, or Allah. Maybe hes smart...hes gonna watch us all murder each other from the sidelines.

posted on Jul, 16 2006 @ 12:29 PM
What he means, is that Russia is not going to go along with US' and Western Europe's game. US and Europe want to spread democracy and capitalism throughout the world, to pave the way for completing worldwide globalization of trade- which is much influenced and mostly benefits the Western world. Putin does not want Russia to get involved in any wars of conflicts the US or Europe is waging, because they end up only benefiting themselves and exploiting the world.

Democracy is new God for the Western World. If the crusades of the old were meant to introduce and spread Christianity throughout the holy land (Middle East), the crusades of the new are meant to spread democracy throughout the world, through any means necessary. During the crusades civilian casualties, and the ambitions of local states and people did not matter much, because the wars were waged for GOD, and what is waged in the name of GOD is wholly permissible and righteous.

Well todat DEMOCRACY in the West is considered the most righteous thing there is. Whose who "hate our freedom and democracy" deserve to perish, just like those who hated or impeded Christianity deserved to perish. Democracy, coupled with capitalism, is the new GOD. For democracy, any struggle is permissible. For democracy, the US has a right to intervene throughout the world, mindless of peoples lives and ambitions. Just like in the Middle Ages, Europe disregarded other religions and cultures, today anything that is not DEMOCRACY and CAPITALISM is EVIL (communism, socialism, feudalism), and deserves to be wiped off from the face of the earth. US cares not that some people might not want democracy- it is going to bring it to them anyway. US does not care that democracy might not work everywhere in the world (due to cultures and traditions).

And just like the GOD in the old crusades was an exuse to colonize the Middle East, and get rid of potential enemies, today DEMOCRACY is the exuse for the West to colonize the world. DEMOCRACY is mostly just a concept- not a reality. No country has, or will ever have complete democracy. Human greed and strife for power will not permit it. America of all democracies, is probably the least democratic now. But that doesn't stop it from trying to introduce democracy to the rest of the world. After all democracy is just a disguise for capitalism and globalization, just like GOD was a disguise for colonization.

[edit on 16-7-2006 by maloy]

posted on Jul, 16 2006 @ 01:50 PM
thanks for clearing that up, excellent response maloy! and we all know how well the previous crusades ended!

posted on Jul, 16 2006 @ 03:57 PM
Good job maloy.

Apparently Bobby Fisher arrived at the same conclusion. Decades ago.

I wonder how many people of this forum even know who he is, and what his deal was.

Here's one;

"You dare calling me a red? You ignorant idiot! Well I'll tell you mister, I'd rather be a communist then a backwards thick headed moron like you!".

McCarthy era.

The scary thing he just might have been right, but went about it the wrong way, just look what our Media and Entertainment industries ended up as.

posted on Jul, 16 2006 @ 04:25 PM
US is so pro-Democratic, that it absolutely whatsoever refuses to acknowledge that there might be other types of government good for the people. Communism is seen as the great evil- the evil that breeds evil, spits evil on everyone around, and just reeks of evil. Well many people around the world, and even Western Europe and Canada care to disagree. Yes Russia failed at Communism, but most of the failure was from the Cold War, and the intense efforts and money spends on military technology. Of communism was left to itself, without the Cold War, it might have actually worked. Of course the leaders were a problem as well (Stalin).

US is probably the only large democracy in the world that has no socialist/communist party. Even the Democrats, are far to the right compared with leftists in other countries. Why this antipathy towards anything besides democracy?

So why does America hold so much intolerance toward other types of government, like communism. Contemporary American education teaches to respect different cultures and traditions of people around the world. But why no respect for communism? It also has many cultural trait that appeal to many people around the world. Unlike capitalism, it is not a concept of every one being out by themselves and caring how to make oneself rich and powerful. Ideal communism is based on people surviving together, not by constantly competing, but by working everything out together, not leaving anyone behind in the process.

So why can't there be a real communist or at least socialist party in the US. After all American trade unions were pretty successful, by why not politics.

posted on Jul, 16 2006 @ 04:29 PM

secular pluralistic democracy is perverted and EVIL !

posted on Jul, 16 2006 @ 04:36 PM
Exactly. If you are not a flag-waving pro-democracy patriot in the US, you might as well leave the country. You can't get into politics. You can't get into prestigious universities. You can't get top management positions in any business. McCarthy might be long gone, but his trail of intolerance remains. Why can't US be as tolerant towards different politics as it is towards religion?

On the side note, it is interesting that Bush did not approve Russia's entrance into WTO during the summit. I guess Russia's progress on democracy doesn't impress the white house. However Putin did make a cunning remark that the democracy in Iraq also isn't working out too well, after which Bush was obviously embarassed. Well if US doesn't want to let capitalist Russia into its little corporate club, don't be surprised if Russia turns away from the Western God (Democracy).

posted on Jul, 16 2006 @ 04:40 PM
he says alot of these crptic remarks, doesn't he. i found it weird too. lol

posted on Jul, 16 2006 @ 05:37 PM

This may be off topic... but
what is it with Dubya and BBQ ??

Germans delight Bush with barbecue

STRALSUND, Germany - President Bush was high on the hog in Germany on Thursday.

Even before he sat down for dinner with German Chancellor Angela Merkel, Bush commented again and again on how much he looked forward to the 65-pound wild boar that was on the menu.

"I understand I may have the honor of slicing the pig," Bush told Merkel during opening remarks at a news conference. One German reporter asked Merkel about violence in the Middle East, then asked Bush for his impressions of the region - aside from the pig. Bush cut Merkel off.

"I haven't seen the pig yet," he said with a chuckle, then apologized to Merkel for interrupting. She said she hoped it was already roasting, with six hours until dinner time.

And when a U.S. reporter asked for a follow-up, Bush seemed disappointed by the topic: Iran.

"I thought you were going to ask me about the pig," he said.

Dubya has BBQ again in St Petersburg ??

The Bushes and the Putins had a relaxed dinner on Friday night at a villa
on the grounds of the opulent 18th century Konstantin Palace, the venue
Putin chose as headquarters for the eight-power summit.


Bush and Putin were meeting to discuss the many crises shaking the world,
after a more relaxed barbecue dinner on Friday night with their wives at a
government-owned villa.


Russian Orthodox Christians do not eat meat on Friday !

[edit on 16-7-2006 by Ivanova]

posted on Jul, 17 2006 @ 04:27 AM
Maloy and Ivanova: since you both give a thumbs-down to democracy, could you please outline what sort of system of government you would prefer to live under instead, and tell us a little about why you would prefer it?

I'd be really keen to hear a persuasive argument in favour of another style of government over democracy, because in all my years on this planet I've never heard one yet. If I see one on ATS it will validate the site, not just for me, but for all history.

Maloy, to answer the question "why no respect for communism", the answer is pretty straightforward, isn't it? Communism doesn't work. That's been proved over and over again, exhaustively, to the point where there is really no argument about it. Communism is a seductive ideology but you cannot implement it, because communism is contrary to human nature, and you can't change human nature. People have tried hard enough. Just doesn't work.

Communism is the god that failed. Failed gods don't get much respect.

That's my view, anyway. Let's have yours. And let's try and keep it civilized, okay?

posted on Jul, 17 2006 @ 06:45 AM

Originally posted by Astyanax

Maloy and Ivanova: since you both give a thumbs-down to democracy, could you please outline what sort of system of government you would prefer to live under instead, and tell us a little about why you would prefer it?

It should be obvious that I am a Tsarist.

Russia was Tsarist for a 1000 years...
and is the heir of the Byzantium empire,
the first Christian empire, which was created
by Emperor St Constantine. Russian Tsars can
trace their legacy back to Julius Caesar...
they are heirs of King David !

All faithful Russian Orthodox Christians are Tsarist !

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