Political Insensitivity

Is there nothing they wont do to get elected?

Democrats Pull 'Flag-Draped Coffin' Ad
Democrats pulled an Internet ad that showed flag-draped coffins Friday after Republicans and at least two Democrats demanded it be taken down on grounds the image was insensitive and not fit for a political commercial.

The ad by the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee called for a "new direction" and displayed a staccato of images, including war scenes, pollution and breached levees as well as a photograph of former House Majority Leader Tom DeLay doctored to look like a police mug shot.

www.newsmax.com...

We have put up with the likes of Michael Moore and Moveon.org for long enough. They continue to use shock value, disrespect and the manipulation of the truth to further their goals and we continue to support them.

We go to Moore's movie and never question his portrayal of "facts." Moveon uses obvious out of context quoting and out right lies and still we send them our money and cry out MORE MORE!!!

Now they are (until they were caught) using images of our brave men and women that have given their lives in the service of their country to further their political agenda.

When will we wake up and realize this complete lack of moral responsibility is completely destroying any validity we may have had in the political arena?

Shame on us!!

Semper

Semperfortis, why are you doing the "it's the other party's fault" blame game? Don't you know there is no difference at this point between Repubs and Dems and neither party is serving the People?

Besides, the ads are showing the truth. Our sons and daughters are dying and IMHO, it is needless and it is a needless war. Somehow, we must wake the American people up to the truth of what is going on in our country; images of what is really happening seem to me to be a good way to do that. Wake up, America!

Uh, they didn't have to Doctor any photos of Mug Shots for Delay, there are MugShots of Delay, you sure they aren't the ones that were taken when he was... Oh wait, that never happened, Faux News never reported it, sorry.

Anyways, Bush had a commercial during the 2004 elections that showed a flag draped coffin, you say "Yea! Go Bush!" Dems have a commercial with a flag draped coffin "We gotta get those Democrats!"

Sad how twisted some people are, either both uses were wrong or both were right, you ask me they were both right, why? FREEDOM OS SPEECH!

Semperfortis, why are you doing the "it's the other party's fault" blame game? Don't you know there is no difference at this point between Repubs and Dems and neither party is serving the People?

Because this is the Politics forum and it exists to discuss politics. This is a political issue I wanted to put out there, so there you have it.

You may not see a difference in the two parties, I however do. I am very active in my party and much of that activity is attempting to change things, yet, I still believe in my Party and the basic foundations of that party.
I respect that you do not and many on here have decided that I am "brain washed" or some other such ridiculous notion. Read some of my threads and I am sure you will find me perfectly lucid.
I simply disagree with your assumption that everything about the current political system is flawed. Or more specifically that the system is at fault for all of our problems and we need to heap blame on it in order to alleviate our own responsibility for inaction.

Semper

Yes, President Bush showed a flag draped coffin..........

Of a Victim of the 9/11 terror attack....

The Dems, show coffins of our soldiers.

If you can not see the difference, then you are so radically opposite me, that no matter what I say, you can always blame it on President Bush.

Semper

Yes, one was the fault of Terrorism, the other was the fault of BUSH! SO a Commercial asking you to make a change from what the President has done should show what his actions have done!

Only if you believe that particular political opinion.

And more importantly only if you believe that the Soldiers deserve no respect from you or your politics.

So if that is your stance, then by all means go ahead and insult their sacrifice, throw whatever mud you want to at their memories. After all, it is a free country.

Thanks to the Soldiers.

Why not just go out and picket a funeral or two?

Semper

[edit on 7/15/2006 by semperfortis]

Originally posted by semperfortis
Yes, President Bush showed a flag draped coffin..........

Of a Victim of the 9/11 terror attack....

The Dems, show coffins of our soldiers.

So if I understand correctly, you are saying that it's okay to use images of death as an incitement to war, but it's not okay to use images of death to highlight the results of the lies that led to that war.

You plead respect for the soldiers, so where are your cries for respect for victims of 9/11 being dragged out and paraded across your television to win an election, three years after they had been put to rest? Why are the senseless deaths of civilians fair game as highlighting injustice, but the senseless deaths of soldiers are not? Is it because one injustice was perpetrated by terrorists, but the other was perpetrated by your own favourite political party? If instead, the 9/11 terrorists had attacked a military installation and the Republicans used images of soldiers' coffins to win the election, would you still be here on ATS crying foul? The "protesting the war disrespects the soldiers" routine is as old as the hills and simply doesn't work any more; the silence opposition with transferred guilt tactic has worn so thin now it's become completely transparent and anyone with two brain cells to rub together can see right through it.

Nationally broadcasting the truth of the war, painful as it may seem to the increasingly marginalized and increasingly extremist few, is infinitely less reproachable than internationally perpetrating the lies which led to that war. "Mushroom clouds ahoy!", came the cry from the crow's nest aloft."

What is the big deal about the coffins?

We all know that death soldiers and personal killed in Iraq or any other area of the world comes to the country in coffins.

So what is the bid deal about it.

My grandfather came in a coffin with the American flag over it after war, two of my uncles also came in coffins with flags over them after Korea and Vietnam so what is the big deal.

They are the heroes and deserve recognition be in coffins with flags or not.

After all the Iraqi deaths are the result of a conflict fought with lies.

I have to agree with wecomeinpeace on this one. If showing pictures of a soldiers coffin is disrespectful, then so was showing pictures of the coffins of those who died on 9/11.

Only if you believe that particular political opinion.

Freedom of speech and freedom of the press should not be allowed on the basis of what one particular person or party thinks is the correct opinion. Personally I think it's disrespectful to show pictures of anybody's coffin, whether they are soldiers, victims of 9/11 or the town drunk who beats his wife daily. It's still disrespectful. But I also realize that that is my personal opinion and it is not my place to impose my opinions and thoughts on the rest of the world.

Maybe you do not understand the difference, but these people do.

www.soldiers-goodtogo.com...

As for the coffins from 9/11, if you read the news then you are aware that the families of the victims, gave President Bush their COMPLETE authorization to run those pictures.

Sorry, but if you don't know the difference, you either were never in combat and lost a friend, never lost a loved one, (Unlike Sheehan who had no contact with her son for years prior to the war) or you just don't get it.

If you don't get it, it is beyond me to help.

Semper

Originally posted by semperfortis
As for the coffins from 9/11, if you read the news then you are aware that the families of the victims, gave President Bush their COMPLETE authorization to run those pictures.

Sorry, but if you don't know the difference, you either were never in combat and lost a friend, never lost a loved one, (Unlike Sheehan who had no contact with her son for years prior to the war) or you just don't get it.

If you don't get it, it is beyond me to help.

Semper

I understand that Bush had permission to run those pictures, my point was that personally I think it's still disrespectful. I don't care if the Grand-Pooba of families gives permission, to me it is disrespectful to use pictures of any coffin, regardless of who is in it, for political purposes. That is my personal opinion. And like I said, I also know that it is not my place to impose my opinion on anyone else. It's fine that some people don't agree with me, that is their right just as it is my right to feel how I do about it.

The only difference in my mind is that Bush had permission to use the pictures while the Campaign Committee apparently did not have permission. To me it makes no difference how they died, they are still people who have passed on and they deserve more respect than to have pictures of their coffins paraded on TV in an effort to further someone's political agenda.

Normally I wouldn't be in this thread, except that based on the title I thought it might be about me. Imagine my disappointment.

Anyway, my spare change on the issue (I'm not sure exactly how many cents it worth) is that using the coffins does not cross the line.

It's emotive, true. But maybe it should be. The war is a valid election issue. One aspect of that issue is that the American people must decide where we as a nation find the balance between necessary policy and the human costs of a policy which necessitates war.

The coffins are a very simple way to get that point across. If you see that coffin and say "I'm sorry, I can't live with that, I'm gonna vote for someone who doesn't want to continue this fight" fine. If you see that coffin and say "I wish that young man was still alive today, but since I can't help that I'm at least gonna vote for someone who will see that we accomplish what he died for" thats fine too.

Each answer will be embraced by some, and each has its merits.

I don't see it as an exploitation though, so long as we're not using the names and faces of people who never consented. It would be a sin to forget the price we pay for this war. Speaking as a Marine, my take is that the voters had better think long and hard about if and HOW they want to fight this war. If America needs to fight this war, game on. When I enlisted I did it with every intention of getting shot at on the enemy's turf so that nobody would get shot at on our turf, so that's fine. But I want the voters thinking hard about whether or not the war is going right and what if any changes need to be made.

"It is wrong to use those images of coffins!" But what about when Bush did it? "That was different that was during a Presidential Election! This is just a Congress Election!"

Like wow, we aren't drinking a gallon of red kool-aid to use that kind of logic to make it ok for Bush to use coffin pictures but bad for Dems to use coffin pictures.

Semper i love ya buddy but you and I never agree....


Personally I could care less who shows draped coffins its Propoganda no matter whose doing it. Regardless.

Yes Bush recieved permission but do you really think he wouldn't. His father was a former President there are plenty of Misguided conservatives, not to say you or anyone else on ATS is, who would be willing to allow thier Husbands, Wives, Etc paraded around to support someones agenda. Im sure that Democractic National Comittee garnered the support and authorization of the soldiers coffins that they aired, beacuse there are plenty of misguided liberals willing to allow thier families sacrafice to be paraded all over the airways. Regardless of who is doing it its still propoganda.

Propaganda as defined by Dict.org - information that is spread for the purpose of promoting some cause.

Semper I think you should give John Dean's new book Conservatives without Conscience a read. Dean is a Barry Goldwater conservative and played a key role in the uncovering of the Watergate scandal. You might find it highly informative about YOUR current party and the things they have been doing for the better part of the last 2 decades and how far they have come from thier founding. It is in no attacking towards true conservatism...but it does shed some light on the practices used by Authoritarian leaders and those who dream of it and how similar those actions and statemenets are to the statements made by the Neoconservative movement that has infested the once great Conservative party.

Political Insensitivity is par to the course right now and i sincerly belive that this was the intent of the leaders on both sides of the spectrum. By polarizing our nation our leaders have effictevly silenced everyone. Add in POlitical Correctness by the Dems in the 1990's and Authoritarian Rhetoric of the New millenium and you have a country that is perpetually on the brink of civil war....perfect for those who wish to gain more and more power....

Normally i would say but thats my opinion...and you know what It is my opinion but opinions are sometimes facts and facts are more often then not just opinions glossed over to look like fact.....

While there are terrible things happening right now....think about what we are passing on to future generations....Because thats what is really important...most of us who care about this issue will either be dead or in jail long before we see the full repricutions of allowing a Conneticut Texan wannnabe to lead our nation as a puppet while a trully sinister group of people wrecked our economy and destabilized one of the most volitile regions on the planet.

Elsenorpompom

Semper i love ya buddy but you and I never agree....

Yes, my friend the feeling is mutual.

I will also add that though we disagree, your manner of "disagreeing" is entirely enjoyable and fun to debate. So thank you.

I will get the book and read it, my word on that and then I will get back to you on that topic and let you know what I think.

I think that a lot of what I am trying to convey here is what I would feel if it had been my body coming back in that coffin. If I had died when over there and then had my body used to show a NEGATIVE side to a conflict that I was proud to have been a part of. I made it through my years in the Marines and then one tour as a civilian instructor and I am PROUD of what I helped to accomplish. Too proud to allow some JERK of a politician to use me to say the war is somehow wrong.

The people that died on 9/11 are victims, the soldiers are not.

Again, unless you have been in that particular position, I'm sure it is difficult to understand.

Semper

Semantics my friend semantics....to be crude a dead body is just that...a dead body....now we as a species for whatever reason like to put alot of emotion into where that body goes who sees it the kind of hole its in...where that hole is....etc...


I see where you are coming from and I whole heartidly agree....However....because the Right did it means the left can to...and wats wonderful is that the Dems were SCREAMING about this post 9-11 so its fair turn that the Reps SCREAM about it too...What i would like to see is a lil moderation.....this country has done its overall best when we are moving neither left or nor right....but nicely right down the center....and thats really wat I belive is at stake here...


Not just our liberty and freedoms....but our country's stability...we are a melting pot and that comes with its own inate weakness's and strengths....because we have soo many different ideas and concepts of how reality is or how it should be,that when we allow ourselves to be controlled by partisan nutjobs like those dragging dead bodies all over our television screens to garner our support/sympathy/money, we risk devolving into a chaotic nation state similar to third world dictatorships..where no one can agree and therefore a powerful more than likely wealthy person takes over and on one wins.

So yes while i can see that showing the coffins of dead soldiers could be disrespectful to some...to me...they are victims of war...Regardless of wether the war was illegal or legal right or wrong...THey still died....If suddenly everwhere everyone agreed with this war...they would still be victims....if Suddenly everwhere everyone said NO this is wrong you lied etc...they would still be victims.

War has no winners only greater and lesser losers....Who ever has the most soldiers left...wins....Therfore they are victims of a cycle of violence that is repeated on average every 16 years here in the United States and countless more times throughout the entire world.

I am in no way advocating arms removal or any of that Neo-Liberal propoganda.(even though i am leftist)

War sucks no one has ever called war a walk in the park (no refrence intended)

IMO any person who dies is a victim of something...wether it be a victim of thier own bad judgment or the victim of an artillery shell or knife wound. Either way a life has been extinguished and that to me must not happen unless there is no other way...and to espouge it has heroism is worse protesting the troops. While heroic deeds are done in battle: men saving children or saving enemy combatants. But what it comes down to, is that War is the wholesale wanton disregard for the things that make us Human and that Makes us ALL victims, especially those who give up thier lives in order to ensure that our way of life is preserved.

So you have to ask yourself and this is directed at whole thread not just Semper...Is your way of life worth another death...Is your way of life worth sacraficing men women and children across the globe to destruction death and worst of all loss?

These are questions that cannot be answered by political talking heads or pundits with some quip or sound byte. These are questions that go to the very foundation of our beings and there fore are deeply important in regards to our political affiliations and the way in which we allow ourselves to be governed. Even though it is easy to reliquish responsibility because you are not directly involved, it is that same mentalility that allowed to attrocities of WW1 and WW2 to occur.

Not to sound cliche but as a nation we need to stop our quibbling and scaubling...because when, not if, we truly lose our freedom it will be our own faults because we were to busy fighting to notice the rug being pulled from beneath our feet.

Left and Right can work together to come up with a plan to unite our people under a Banner of Freedom not a Banner of War....and domination. I understand that we need to protect our national borders and our interests internationallly....however....is partisan bickering in the House/Senate and on the streets of NY really affective in solving the problems of our day.

The time for a new path and new parties is at hand...and there is only one group that bring this about....the American People....we must change our path or regardless of who takes control of the House/Senate in November or who is sitting in some Oval office...this country will not come close to meeting its true potential.

[edit on 15-7-2006 by Elsenorpompom]

[edit on 15-7-2006 by Elsenorpompom]

[edit on 15-7-2006 by Elsenorpompom]

You have voted Elsenorpompom for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have used all of your votes for this month.

You just got my last one my friend and well deserved!!!

I ask only one thing though.

That you consider my mind set. Everyday I put on my weapon and leave my home with the mindset that if I can save a life, any life, by sacrificing mine, I must. I am duty bound to throw my body in between a bullet and even the lowest crack dealer, murderer or rapist.
So an honorable death has always meant very much to me.

Semper

You just got my last one my friend and well deserved!!!

I ask only one thing though.

That you consider my mind set. Everyday I put on my weapon and leave my home with the mindset that if I can save a life, any life, by sacrificing mine, I must. I am duty bound to throw my body in between a bullet and even the lowest crack dealer, murderer or rapist.
So an honorable death has always meant very much to me.

Semper

I totally feel ya on that one. And in my mind there is no more honrable a death then in the sacrafice of your life for another. So on that one dude we finally agree YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I do hope however my friend that you are never asked to make that sacrafice. We all have to decide for ourselves how we want to live and what we want our life to mean. I cant decide that for you and you cant decide that for me. But...it is better that we disagree on something and agree on others than not having an opinon at all....Apathy is our greatest weakness.

Thanks again for the Way above I think thats like my first one...so thankyou kindly...also great thread....

I believe that my greatest friends are the ones that disagree with me.

They are the ones that are without a doubt the most interesting to talk too.

Semper