Who is Greater: the Medical Researcher or the Medical Doctor?

Originally posted by Relentless
No Doc, I'm not kidding you. If I had access to this information and presented it to my Dr. do you think for one minute they would even look at it? They don't. They don't have the time (so I can't entirely blame them) and they don't care.

These obscure things you reference are not trickling down to the people who it could help in any way shape or form, at least not in the US.

wow, you obviously don't know what you're talking about...

Surface markers and nanoparticles are probably the most common area of research right now. If you ask any doctor what a surface marker on a virus is, they can tell you. That is, unless that are working out of the back of a van or went to medical school pre-1920. In that case, get a new doctor.

You literally cannot pick up any medical research journal without finding at least one good study on a new surface marker antibody, surface marker recognition, nanoparticle-protein complexes, etc.

Mariella

I would say the medical researchers because they are desperately try ing to discover medicines that will help us.
Medical doctors are so eager to give a pill for everything....and I mean everything .
I think we place too much trust in a medical doctor.
I'm a diabetic and for over 2 years my BS has been too high .
The medical drs don't know what to do to lower it.
I finally found a dr that is sending me to a Endocrinologist.
I hope this helps me.

Rgrettably I do have a person perspective to this debate. My older brother passed away last week. He was a general practitionser in a small seaside community up here in MA. He started a full service (lab, xray, etc.) clinic practice after leaving hospital work back in 1984. He never got rich. As a matter of fact he was dangerously close to losing his home. What? A not rich doctor??

At his calling hours and funeral service I met dozens and dozens of people that he had treated over the years. Some for over 20yrs. I can't tell you how many people told me how he had literally saved thei lives or the lives of a child or family member. How he provided service and even medications to people who could not pay. How he never asked for social security numbers or insurance information from people before treating them. One mother who had come from Africa told of how she could not get medical care anywhere but my brother was happy to treat her children and herself for years without any medical coverage. So many others told of medical issues that no one had ever been able to diagnose but my brother somehow was able to. I know this gift of his first hand. Listening to these stories was humbling.

Only 63, my brother may not have died a wealthy man but he made a contribution to the commuity and to the lives of so many people that his net worth was incalculable. Researchers are most certainly important but at the end of the day it's the lowly local doc that makes the difference in people's lives. IMHO

JTMA, your late brother is EXACTLY what a doctor should be. I wish my colleagues and I could read the life stories of fellow doctors such as your brother and model our profession after such an individual. Selflessness and dedication to the patient are truly what make a good doctor, and I offer you my heartfelt condolences on your brothers passing, as well as to those who received such stellar medical treatment from him.

Mariella

Originally posted by bsl4doc
wow, you obviously don't know what you're talking about...

Don't be silly, of course I know what I am talking about, I am living it. I can't even find a Dr. in the State of Fl who will read my file let alone call my Dr from NY before I moved down here. So no, they aren't reading the medical journals. Pffft!

I don't think you understand the situation in the US with healthcare. It's rather sad. I have been klicked out of more offices than I can count for telling a Dr. to please look in the medical journals to confirm what I am telling them. They just want the patients who will take their pills and go home.

So in my view the question of the thread is moot, except in the rare instance of the previous poster's brother, and believe me those are few and far between.

[edit on 7/24/2006 by Relentless]

I totally agree with Relentless.

They give you a pill for everything.............

The Dr. that helped people with out insurance was a wonderful man and I wish there were more like him but sad to say they no longer exist, especially in the United States.

If you don't have insurance they could care less if you die on the street.
If you have Public Assistance they make you beg for everything you get and make life so difficcult for you that they hope you will just stop going and stop your meds so they can save the county some money.

And yet, we can send sooooooooooooooooooooooooo much money to other countries to HELP them .

SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH THE WAY THE UNITED STATES IGNORES IT'S OWN PEOPLE.

Actually I have to say that I had a Dr. in NY who was like jtma508's brother. When the Drs. down here would not give me treatment I knew I would respond to I went home. It cost me the plane ticket and in fact I was covered cause at the time I was on a national PPO. He refused to take my co-pay or even file the claim. He just wanted to help me.

But the truth of the matter is MagicalRose is right. In the US we have bogged down the Drs in red tape and insurance paperwork and they just don't care anymore. We are treating people terribly - take a pill and shut up, absolutely no regard for actually curing us so we don't need the pill.

I refused to take a script from a Dr. for high cholesterol due to the fact that it was contradicted by my base condition in the first place. I received a CERTIFIED letter three days later to not return to his office (do they get kickbacks for these scripts?). He said it was new, not a statin and didn't have the muscle concerns or the other warning signals of the statins. IT DOES TOO. The Dr. never read the info on the drug himself.

So, I think the researchers are the ones that are greater, but what difference does it make if it doesn't trickle down to the Drs. This is the USA I am so sorry to say.

I personally believe that in a pissing contest between the two they would decide that the one who came out with the most money while investing the least amount of work was the greater.

Ya know Val, it makes me think of that movie Awakenings. Here you had a researcher who kind of accidentally landed a job where he actually had to deal with people. For the people involved, it was the best of both worlds.

I think by your criteria though no one wins, it's just a big joke.

Originally posted by Relentless


I think by your criteria though no one wins, it's just a big joke.

For them...but I can't seem to find the punch-line. It's become a travesty for the rest of us who have loved ones (and some times even ourselves) depending on some one just doing the right thing...taking the moral high-ground...pretending they ever actually started their profession under the solemn creed of the hippocratic oath and then remembering that was what it should be all about.

*sigh*

Sick bastards. I'm sorry - doctors (medical and research) and funeral directors are lumped into the same category at this point in my mind...back-stabbing, blood-sucking thieves and trajedy-benefactors. The realambulance chasers. Only they set themselves up to where they don't have to chase anything, it just comes straight to them.

Val, you are right.

Relentless, I just found out the other day that I have Osteoporosis of the spine.
My doctor called in a prescription for a drug that I cannot take because of severe digestive problems.
My dr knows this and yet he prescribed this medication for me and when I see him Thursday I'm going to tell him that I'm not going to take it so he may dismiss me as his patient.

About the drugs: Have any of you ever noticed how many of the representives for the drug companies come into the drs office while you are waiting to be seen?

I don't have proof of this but I know I read it somewhere.
I will do a search and see what I can find out.
For every new drug that a dr prescribes for a patient they are paid by the drug company.
I think it said up to 2500.00.
If this is true, then WE are the people thats being used to find out if a drug works or not.

You know what? I've started being my own dr. He can give me all he wants to but that doesn't mean I'm going to take them.

I know my body better than he does.



[edit on 24-7-2006 by MagicaRose]

Originally posted by MagicaRose


I know my body better than he does.

You care more about it, as well.

Sick bastards. I'm sorry - doctors (medical and research) and funeral directors are lumped into the same category at this point in my mind...back-stabbing, blood-sucking thieves and trajedy-benefactors. The realambulance chasers. Only they set themselves up to where they don't have to chase anything, it just comes straight to them.
WELL SAID! I couldn't have said it better and I'm going to remember that

Well, seeing as this has turned into another "everyone with MD after their name should be shot and their families shunned" thread, I think a mod should close it.

That is, unless, we can have some rational discussion?

Mariella

Originally posted by bsl4doc
Well, seeing as this has turned into another "everyone with MD after their name should be shot and their families shunned" thread, I think a mod should close it.

That is, unless, we can have some rational discussion?

Mariella

Considering the following two facts:

1. It has not turned into that. (Criticism of the lack of ethics in the medical profession does not equate to wishing death on the doctors.)

2. You don't get to pick what topics get closed just because it hits too close to home for you.

I guess you just wasted a post in the big count of allotment of wasted posts - huh?

Originally posted by Valhall
Considering the following two facts:

1. It has not turned into that. (Criticism of the lack of ethics in the medical profession does not equate to wishing death on the doctors.)

So wait...THESE statements are simply "criticism of the lack of ethics"??

I don't have proof of this but I know I read it somewhere.
I will do a search and see what I can find out.
For every new drug that a dr prescribes for a patient they are paid by the drug company.
I think it said up to 2500.00.

Sick bastards. I'm sorry - doctors (medical and research) and funeral directors are lumped into the same category at this point in my mind...back-stabbing, blood-sucking thieves and trajedy-benefactors.

I personally believe that in a pissing contest between the two they would decide that the one who came out with the most money while investing the least amount of work was the greater.

Let me get this straight...I can post on any thread I want that police officers are "sick bastards", "back-stabbing, blood-sucking thieves" who make 400 euro off of every speeding ticket (seriously, I read it somewhere, I promse ), just because I have met a few crappy police officers, and it only counts as "criticism of ethics"?

Wow, that's a new one.

2. You don't get to pick what topics get closed just because it hits too close to home for you.

I guess you just wasted a post in the big count of allotment of wasted posts - huh?

You're right, I don't get to pick. That's why I suggested, not demanded. Your country does have freedom of expression, right? You didn't give that away in the Patriot Act, too, did you?

Notice that was freedom of expression, too.

Mariella

[edit on 7/24/2006 by bsl4doc]

I'm assuming you can discuss your personal disdain of any particular profession you have a true disdain for!

My happens to be with...

1. Medical doctors
2. Medical researchers

right now. You're cordially invited to get the hell over the fact it disrupts your life. And, yes, we still have freedom of speech. That happens to be why YOUR COUNTRY'S CITIZEN'S call to shut this discussion down won't have an effect.

Why don't you get back to the topic - which is (right now) the fact I think both of them are worthless?

Originally posted by Valhall
I'm assuming you can discuss your personal disdain of any particular profession you have a true disdain for!

My happens to be with...

1. Medical doctors
2. Medical researchers

right now. You're cordially invited to get the hell over the fact it disrupts your life. And, yes, we still have freedom of speech. That happens to be why YOUR COUNTRY'S CITIZEN'S call to shut this discussion down won't have an effect.

Why don't you get back to the topic - which is (right now) the fact I think both of them are worthless?

Well, considering the topic isn't "let's make baseless claims about a huge group of very diverse people," OR "let's use startling language simply for the shock effect because just using the facts won't suffice", how about we stick to the differences between medical researchers and medical doctors.

I'll get off my high horse if you'll get off of yours.

[edit on 7/24/2006 by bsl4doc]

I have no high-horse - you cornered the market long before I was able to get there and pick my high-withered pony.

The topic is "which is greater: the medical researcher or the medical doctor?" and my position is that they are (ON PAR) pretty much at the same (there isn't any significant difference) gutter-dwelling level of unethical behavior, lack of compassion and sheer worthlessness.

I'm not sure where you're finding the "startling language" unless it only is startling in your world. It's not in mine.

[edit on 7-24-2006 by Valhall]

The topic is "which is greater: the medical researcher or the medical doctor?" and my position is that they are (ON PAR) pretty much at the same (there isn't any significant difference) gutter-dwelling level of unethical behavior, lack of compassion and sheer worthlessness.

I'm not sure where you're finding the "startling language" unless it only is startling in your world. It's not in mine.

Considering the large number of physicians and nurses who work in your own country's government funded public health system, albeit much smaller than every other Western nation, I have a hard time believing your generalisations are anything more than emotional outbursts due to lack of real facts or substance.

And honestly, how many doctors have you had personal exposure to? 10? 15? Do you think they represent the vast majority of doctors in the nation, let alone the world?

Mariella

[edit on 7/24/2006 by bsl4doc]