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Why Arabs Lose Wars

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posted on Jul, 14 2006 @ 06:33 PM
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Old but interesting piece.

Is there anybody on here in an Arab military that can give their take on this?

www.meforum.org...

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The opinions expressed here are strictly his own

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Arabic-speaking armies have been generally ineffective in the modern era. Egyptian regular forces did poorly against Yemeni irregulars in the 1960s.1 Syrians could only impose their will in Lebanon during the mid-1970s by the use of overwhelming weaponry and numbers.2 Iraqis showed ineptness against an Iranian military ripped apart by revolutionary turmoil in the 1980s and could not win a three-decades-long war against the Kurds.3 The Arab military performance on both sides of the 1990 Kuwait war was mediocre.4 And the Arabs have done poorly in nearly all the military confrontations with Israel. Why this unimpressive record? There are many factors—economic, ideological, technical—but perhaps the most important has to do with culture and certain societal attributes which inhibit Arabs from producing an effective military force.

It is a truism of military life that an army fights as it trains, and so I draw on my many years of firsthand observation of Arabs in training to draw conclusions about the ways in which they go into combat. The following impressions derive from personal experience with Arab military establishments in the capacity of U.S. military attaché and security assistance officer, observer officer with the British-officer Trucial Oman Scouts (the security force in the emirates prior to the establishment of the United Arab Emirates), as well as some thirty year's study of the Middle East.



These problems notwithstanding, culture does need to be taken into account. Indeed, awareness of prior mistakes should make it possible to assess the role of cultural factors in warfare. John Keegan, the eminent historian of warfare, argues that culture is a prime determinant of the nature of warfare. In contrast to the usual manner of European warfare which he terms "face to face," Keegan depicts the early Arab armies in the Islamic era as masters of evasion, delay, and indirection.12 Examining Arab warfare in this century leads to the conclusion that Arabs remain more successful in insurgent, or political warfare13—what T. E. Lawrence termed "winning wars without battles."14

No kidding....


Change is unlikely to come until it occurs in the larger Arab political culture, although the experience of other societies (including our own) suggests that the military can have a democratizing influence on the larger political culture, as officers bring the lessons of their training first into their professional environment, then into the larger society. It obviously makes a big difference, however, when the surrounding political culture is not only avowedly democratic (as are many Middle Eastern states), but functionally so. Until Arab politics begin to change at fundamental levels, Arab armies, whatever the courage or proficiency of individual officers and men, are unlikely to acquire the range of qualities which modern fighting forces require for success on the battlefield. For these qualities depend on inculcating respect, trust, and openness among the members of the armed forces at all levels, and this is the marching music of modern warfare that Arab armies, no matter how much they emulate the corresponding steps, do not want to hear.


Just from observation, what he said seems to be pretty accurate. I really would like to hear someone in an Arab military's take on this though.




posted on Jul, 14 2006 @ 06:59 PM
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Thatsjustwierd,
Not to crap on your thread but did you take a look at the "List Of Experts" page:


Joseph Farah
Editor and Chief Executive Officer
WorldNetDaily.com
Bio: www.acpr.org.il...
Areas of Expertise: Arab-Americans, Arab-Israel conflict
Contact: jfarah@worldnetdaily.com


Tashbih Sayyed
Editor and Publisher
Pakistan Today
Bio: www.benadorassociates.com...
Areas of Expertise: Islam, Pakistan
Contact: mail@paktoday.com

Joseph Farah is extreme right wing ,arab-american, Christian, anti-muslim. He is the kind of person that gets us into wars, not the type that brings us peace. Christians like him are the type of Christians that helped murder 100's of Palestinains in Lebanon which helped fuel the Lebanese Civil war.

Benador associates...dunno if you remember a few months back was one of the main instigators in that news release a while ago in canada in regards to the "Iran to force jews and Christians to wear colored Badges" crap. It was disinfo.


People like these are not looking to solve problems or create peace, they are trying to psyche people up to give the illusion that the people they want us (US and our children, not they themselves) will end up fighting are easy prey.

War is war and anyone with a weapon is dangerous..they don't have to be great warriors.



[edit on 14-7-2006 by ThePieMaN]



posted on Jul, 14 2006 @ 10:35 PM
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Originally posted by ThePieMaN
Thatsjustwierd,
Not to crap on your thread but did you take a look at the "List Of Experts" page:


Joseph Farah
Editor and Chief Executive Officer
WorldNetDaily.com
Bio: www.acpr.org.il...
Areas of Expertise: Arab-Americans, Arab-Israel conflict
Contact: jfarah@worldnetdaily.com


Tashbih Sayyed
Editor and Publisher
Pakistan Today
Bio: www.benadorassociates.com...
Areas of Expertise: Islam, Pakistan
Contact: mail@paktoday.com

Joseph Farah is extreme right wing ,arab-american, Christian, anti-muslim. He is the kind of person that gets us into wars, not the type that brings us peace. Christians like him are the type of Christians that helped murder 100's of Palestinains in Lebanon which helped fuel the Lebanese Civil war.

Benador associates...dunno if you remember a few months back was one of the main instigators in that news release a while ago in canada in regards to the "Iran to force jews and Christians to wear colored Badges" crap. It was disinfo.


People like these are not looking to solve problems or create peace, they are trying to psyche people up to give the illusion that the people they want us (US and our children, not they themselves) will end up fighting are easy prey.

War is war and anyone with a weapon is dangerous..they don't have to be great warriors.



[edit on 14-7-2006 by ThePieMaN]


Pie,
Can we sayAd hominem. While I agree that Farah is Christian right-wing Arab-American, he was not the author of the piece. this guy was:


Norvell De Atkine, a U.S. Army retired colonel with eight years residence in Lebanon, Jordan, and Egypt, and a graduate degree in Arab studies from the American University of Beirut, is currently instructing U.S. Army personnel assigned to Middle Eastern areas. The opinions expressed here are strictly his own.


Beside this comment was out of bounds:


He is the kind of person that gets us into wars, not the type that brings us peace. Christians like him are the type of Christians that helped murder 100's of Palestinains in Lebanon which helped fuel the Lebanese Civil war.


That is beneath you, I know you can formulate a better argument than that.



posted on Jul, 14 2006 @ 11:52 PM
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Originally posted by Imperium Americana
Pie,
While I agree that Farah is Christian right-wing Arab-American, he was not the author of the piece. this guy was:


That is beneath you, I know you can formulate a better argument than that.


IA
It wasn't really intended as an argument , but more to show the ingredients of the food being served. If I were to present to you a site as a source for such a piece that stated "Americans are the most cowardly fighters" would you merely look at just the Author or would you look at the piece and the About Us page or Mission page?What if you saw listed Hezbollah members, Hamas members, Aljazeera members as contributors to the site? Would you believe it fully?
I looked at the piece and I went and looked at the people associated with that site. Benador associates? Do you remember the furor it caused over that one piece that was written in canada? Who was associated with Benador?Members of PNAC?
What does a piece like that accomplish?

See here the research that Gools did on Benador associates and hopefully you will understand where Im coming from.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Pie



posted on Jul, 15 2006 @ 12:00 AM
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No Argument, just...well you know good and well what I meant! LOL Denyi you know and all that jazz. You can do better, after your perfect troll I just demand, from you, more now! LOL



posted on Jul, 15 2006 @ 12:25 AM
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Originally posted by Imperium Americana
No Argument, just...well you know good and well what I meant! LOL Denyi you know and all that jazz. You can do better, after your perfect troll I just demand, from you, more now! LOL


Man I am just so tired. We are being bombarded with so much BS! Is this what those dudes in Gitmo are going through?
We are getting it from all sides.
By now Im sure you can tell..Im not into this war crap. Im sorry and I don't mean to offend. My intentions are good. I would like to see peace but yet I dont want to be taken advantage of.

Pie



posted on Jul, 15 2006 @ 12:49 AM
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Just because somebody's a Christian doesn't mean their wrong.






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