The FED is a serious scam. When is something going to be done about it?

Originally posted by Toadmund
What would it be like? We can only wonder. I struggle to imagine.

I struggle to stop imagining what it will be like!

You know after we have fought the banks we gotta take the person status away from corporations, asap.

what to do? stop paying taxes? not unless you found an employer to hire you under those conditions. i'm personally a sub-contractor, nobody tells me how to do my job or give me the tools to do it so i'm not an employee (luckly) and iv'e used that opportunity to hold off on my tax contributions until i figure out what is true and what is not.

BattleofBatoche... you sound like you are from canada so i wonder if you've called revenue canada to inquire about this. I dont have the nuts to do due to my tax situation i dont want to open that can of worms until i know a little more. but if taxes being a fraud is a dubious claim then i wonder what the reason for sites like this are?

www.cra-arc.gc.ca...

I cant find as much information on canada as i can on the US exept detax canada seems to cover both.

www.detaxcanada.org...

a friend of mine is trying to get me to join the Paradigm Education Group.

www.naturalperson.com... Website/7 Paradigm Ed/Ed Services/Ed Services.htm

but the text book he gave me had the disclaimer as follows.

I, Russel Anthoney Porisky, present this information in my capacity as a natural person, as an exercise of my rights and freedoms. As such the information containded herein is for educational puposes only and should, in no way, be construed as either legal or financial advice. Therefore, before relying on any conclusions expressed herein or applying any of the information in your own life, I stongly recommend that in addition to thoroughly studying the information yourself you consult a competent expert on this subject matter to determine the varacity of what has been presented.

i guess this is a simple stratigy of not getting put in jail for teaching something not approved by our education board. plus none of these websites seem to be hosted in canada.

so i dont know. a little help please.

Ok.

Dae, im counting you in. You made me realize this problem is bigger than the United States, its a world wide problem.

Im curious as to what the moderators have to say regarding activists activity. I think ATS has many of the tools that we would need. Tthis is something that ATS needs, people want to do more than just read. Wikipedia would also be a great help.

But something to keep in the back of peoples mind is that this problem is bigger than FED. Think of the phrase "follow the money" and who the people who spend the money are, what it is spent on, and the reason for us to even be brainstorming what we are going/need to do.

This has to be taken one step at a time, and the first step is knowing what our first step is going to be and how we are going to do it. We need ATS as they have much of the tools that we need, but I dont want what we are going to do to be labled and discredited as a simple "conspiracy theory" on a conspiracy website that talks about UFOs ect. But no doubt, we need what ATS already has.

So Dae, im in. I hope ATS is in as well.

We need to continue discussing what it is that we need to do to accomplish our goal, and figure out what our goal is.

People of ATS start brainstorming

(The flag is of the city of my hometown, Albany, New York )

Edit: How are you going to get people to not pay taxes?


[edit on 16-7-2006 by Mujahid187]

Originally posted by tom goose
what to do? stop paying taxes? not unless you found an employer to hire you under those conditions. i'm personally a sub-contractor, nobody tells me how to do my job or give me the tools to do it so i'm not an employee (luckly) and iv'e used that opportunity to hold off on my tax contributions until i figure out what is true and what is not.

BattleofBatoche... you sound like you are from canada so i wonder if you've called revenue canada to inquire about this. I dont have the nuts to do due to my tax situation i dont want to open that can of worms until i know a little more. but if taxes being a fraud is a dubious claim then i wonder what the reason for sites like this are?

www.cra-arc.gc.ca...

I cant find as much information on canada as i can on the US exept detax canada seems to cover both.

www.detaxcanada.org...

a friend of mine is trying to get me to join the Paradigm Education Group.

www.naturalperson.com... Website/7 Paradigm Ed/Ed Services/Ed Services.htm

but the text book he gave me had the disclaimer as follows.

I, Russel Anthoney Porisky, present this information in my capacity as a natural person, as an exercise of my rights and freedoms. As such the information containded herein is for educational puposes only and should, in no way, be construed as either legal or financial advice. Therefore, before relying on any conclusions expressed herein or applying any of the information in your own life, I stongly recommend that in addition to thoroughly studying the information yourself you consult a competent expert on this subject matter to determine the varacity of what has been presented.

i guess this is a simple stratigy of not getting put in jail for teaching something not approved by our education board. plus none of these websites seem to be hosted in canada.

so i dont know. a little help please.

Paradigm is huge in Western Canada and NO ONE has lost or even been hauled in front of a judge yet. CCRA will send you a letter or two, don't return or speak with them on the telephone, always in writing, get everything in writing. The disclaimer is to prevent being charged offering legal advice without being a member of the Bar Association (illegal), The Bar swore an oath to the Crown (Rothchilds& friends) therefore have to protect their masters instead of you.
I suggest getting a Blacks Law dictionary, the older the better, Bouvier's Law is good as well, then get a Barons Canadian law dictionary. Read various acts of Parliament and understand the real meaning of the words written in law and not what they say on T.V. and the media. Traffic means cars on the street to the average sheeple, but in law it means the trading of commercial goods, etc.
Read your motor vehicles Act, them creeps redefined accident to mean "intentional collision". What is is the first thing you say to the cops? Oh it was an accident, what do you fill out on your "Accident Claim/Statement" It was an accident! then you sign your name and you have a confession of guilt!
Every Act of Parliement has a way out if you spend the time. I got all the stuff from Paradigm, you can even download the intro DVD from conspiracy central on the web for free.
Judge DAVID-Wynn: Miller is another guy who claims to have gotten Clinton unimpeached through legaleze! I ordered his stuff but it had a U.N. international criminal court theme behind it which is just the elite playing Good cop Bad cop.
Detax has alot for free on the Web page.
It takes about 2 years of study before you can survive on your own but people are Waking Up and getting out of BABYLON!
It took me awhile to get the guts cause I only heard of things in America on the net but then I ran into co-workers and they were actually doing it & not in Jail.
Remember in canada you automatically default to the status of officer while recieving benefits therefore you must remunerate you military script. The question is do you want to work for yourself in your own capacity or in default mode of the officer for measily benefits that probably won't be there when you retire anyways.
Remember your income tax goes to the Reciever General (of a bankruptcy proceeding) in order to be given to canada's creditors for national debt. (The IMF).
The feds take all the money but the Provinces end up paying for everything (healthcare) Your municipal taxes pay for schools, your gas taxes pay for roads, What the hell does the Federal Gov't do with all the money? Follow the money.
CPP comes from future people paying in. You work from 16-65 yrs, pay roughly half a million in CPP Canada Pension Plan, retire, cash it in, get 10 000 per year until death, probably 75-85yrs, the Feds keep the leftover 200 000 - 300 000 for running the program all the while telling you that the program is going to go broke when the babyboomers retire? LIES---LIES.
This is probably why they built the Detention center outside Lindsey Ontario.
I'll see you there if your brave enough. The gov't can only take what belongs to that legal fiction it created (Your names in all caps that is a representative officer).
Get joint bank accounts with your spouse & or kids/ girlfriend/boyfriend. They can't sieze dual accounts, put your savings into gold & silver & bury it in the ground in PVC pipes, Put your house in TRUST with a clause saying you get live out the rest of your days in the house before it goes to the benefactor of the Trust.
File liens against yourself via a notary of the public & court house, ALL LIENS MUST BE HONORED IN ORDER OF FILING! If you aready have liens against your property the gov't first has to pay the original lien out first therefore doubling the real value and making the property impossible to auction off in order to recoup money spent.You can beat "THEM" inside or outside of the box.
Remember we are only ruled by fear, conquer your fear and laugh in the face of the enemy.
CCRA hand delivered those anti underground pamphlets to my house, nothing has ever come of it, JUST a SCARE TACTIC!


[edit on 16-7-2006 by BattleofBatoche]

[edit on 16-7-2006 by BattleofBatoche]

Originally posted by Mujahid187
Im curious as to what the moderators have to say regarding activists activity.

-snip-

We need ATS as they have much of the tools that we need, but I dont want what we are going to do to be labled and discredited as a simple "conspiracy theory" on a conspiracy website that talks about UFOs ect. But no doubt, we need what ATS already has.

bolding mine

First of all, ATS will remain a neutral site. While the issues which seem to require activism might be discussed in these boards, the use of this site as a means of promoting activism is discouraged and covered in the T&C's.

Stated here:

1e.) Recruitment Content: You will not post advertisements, chain letters, pyramid schemes, or solicitations of any kind. You will not collect personal information about forum members for the purpose of sending advertisements, chain letters, pyramid schemes, or solicitations through other means (email, messaging programs, etc.).

ok... thank you masqua. so by what the terms and conditions are that you posted we should not discuss anything relating being actively involed in the 'Paradigm' group, however, is it writen in the T&C that we can or cannot discuss methods of activism, especially under these conditions. Its not that we are trying to organize a cult or a even a political party. To suggest methods of reaching out in a system that incumbers us all... should be given a little slack in my beleifs, after all ( and i hope i dont get kicked for saying this) to host the most popular site for researching government cover ups (if there is one bigger please direct me there) and then stipulate that although we have uncoverd the truth we should no solicite any means of actively responding to the truth.... seems really restraining considering the subjects that gets discussed. Could ATS be held liable for something if some one got the idea from this site to start lobbying against renewing the Federal Reserve Act.

en.wikipedia.org... what kind of heartless people pass banking bills 2 days before christmas. they obviously wern't thinking of their families or they would have been at home with thier families like the rest of congress. why did this act get passed with only 3 or 4 poeple present? the rules allowed it fine. but why is it that this act has not been challanged in the last century?

Please check your U2U's

[edit on 16-7-2006 by masqua]

Originally posted by tom goose
ok... thank you masqua. so by what the terms and conditions are that you posted we should not discuss anything relating being actively involed in the 'Paradigm' group, however, is it writen in the T&C that we can or cannot discuss methods of activism, especially under these conditions. Its not that we are trying to organize a cult or a even a political party. To suggest methods of reaching out in a system that incumbers us all... should be given a little slack in my beleifs, after all ( and i hope i dont get kicked for saying this) to host the most popular site for researching government cover ups (if there is one bigger please direct me there) and then stipulate that although we have uncoverd the truth we should no solicite any means of actively responding to the truth.... seems really restraining considering the subjects that gets discussed. Could ATS be held liable for something if some one got the idea from this site to start lobbying against renewing the Federal Reserve Act.

en.wikipedia.org...

what kind of heartless people pass banking bills 2 days before christmas. they obviously wern't thinking of their families or they would have been at home with thier families like the rest of congress. why did this act get passed with only 3 or 4 poeple present? the rules allowed it fine. but why is it that this act has not been challanged in the last century?

The more I read, the more disgusted I get. Here is more from the charges Congressman McFadden placed against the FED in 1934...

"Mr. Speaker, I rise to a question of constitutional privilege.

"Whereas, I charge. . .Eugene Meyer, Roy A. Young, Edmund Platt, Eugene B. Black, Adolph Casper Miller, Charles S. Hamlin, George R. James, Andrew W. Mellon, Ogden L. Mills, William H. Woo W. Poole, J.F.T. O'Connor, members of the Federal Reserve Board; F. H. Curtis, J.H. Chane, R.L. Austin, George De Camp, L.B. Williams, W.W. Hoxton, Oscar Newton, E.M. Stevens, J.S. Wood, J.N. Payton, M.L. McClure, C.C. Walsh, Isaac B. Newton, Federal Reserve Agents, jointly and severally, with violations of the Constitution and laws of the United States, and whereas I charge them with having taken funds from the U.S Treasury which were not appropriated by the Congress of the United States, and I charge them with having unlawfully taken over $80,000,000,000 from the U.S. Government in the year 1928, the said unlawful taking consisting of the unlawful creation of claims against the U.S. Treasury to the extent of over $80,000,000,000 in the year 1928; and I charge them with similar thefts committed in 1929, 1930, 1931, 1932 and 1933, and in years previous to 1928, amounting to billions of dollars; and

"Whereas I charge them, jointly and severally with having unlawfully created claims against the U.S. Treasury by unlawfully placing U.S. Government credit in specific amounts to the credit of foreign governments and foreign central banks of issue; private interests and commercial and private banks of the U.S. and foreign countries, and branches of foreign banks doing business in the U.S., to the extent of billions of dollars; and with having made unlawful contracts in the name of the U.S. Government and the U.S. Treasury; and with having made false entries on books of account; and

source: www.geocities.com...

and....it goes on and on for many many paragraphs....all the charges he attempted to bring against the FED. Nothing came of it of course. That $80 Billion certainly would have helped the people of this country during the Depression. The Depression which was caused by the FED....the disgusting scum bags that run it.

Within 2 years after McFadden brought these charges against the FED, 2 attempts were made on his life and then he "suddenly" died of heart failure after a dose of the flu....which, I am sure, was a third attempt on his life which was finally successful.

Makes me want to start writing A LOT OF LETTERS....but what good would it do? The people I want to read them, won't and....the people that do read them will get a good laugh and then toss them in the trash.

Honestly...anyone....ideas??

[edit on 16-7-2006 by Excitable_Boy]

More.....

The year is now 1913, the year after Woodrow Wilson was elected president of the United States. Prior to his election he needed financial support to pay for his campaign, so he reluctantly agreed, that if elected, he would sign the Federal Reserve Act, in return for that financial support.

source: www.wtv-zone.com...

There were 2 different attempts prior to this to have private entities control our money and both were shot down by smart politicians a short time later. This time, this new FED has now been around for ALMOST 100 YEARS and I hate to say it, but IT ISN'T GOING AWAY!!

In December 1913 while many members of Congress were home for Christmas, the Federal Reserve Act was rammed through Congress and was later signed by President Wilson. At a later date, Wilson admitted with remorse, when referring to the Fed."I have unwittingly ruined my country".

Wilson realized he ruined our country....how nice! The price of being president? You make a deal with the devil...I guess you are going to get burned. This time, this deal with the devil burned OUR WHOLE COUNTRY!

We didn't have nor did we need an income tax until we got the bankers back. The income tax was only needed to pay interest to the bankers for our money that they loan to our government. Yes, you read that right, the Fed, mostly on paper and computer, creates money or pays the treasury a small printing fee for currency, and then loans this money to our government. Our taxes pay them interest on this loan that cost the FEDS virtually nothing to make, what a sweetheart of a deal they have going for them.

As of March 6, 2006, the national debt stands at 8.2 trillion dollars. The American taxpayers have paid the FED banking system $173,875,979,369.66 in interest on that debt in just five short months, from October, 2005, through February, 2006. No con artist or group of con artists in history has ever perpetrated a scam that even approaches the scope of this one

As of march of this year, the US dept was at 8.2 trillion dollars. The FED makes 1 trillion dollars per year...and it's tax free! We, the idiot taxpayers, have paid to the FED $174 BILLION in interest in only 5 months.....UNDERSTAND? We haven't paid taxes at all...we are paying interest on a debt to a private freaking bank!....interest on money we never saw. Money that did nothing for us. Have you ever wondered where our tax money goes? Well....it goes to the freaking FED!

Well...I'm FED UP!! There was no need for a damn income tax until the FED was formed. We need another revolution in this country....to get it back (get the country back). Land of the FREE? What a crock of crap that is! We are OWNED by the FED!......the scum bags that own the FED!...the names were mentioned on the first post.....the Rothschilds and Rockefellers and the rest of the scum!

Definately watch From Freedom to Fascism it's a documentary by Aaron Russo about the issues of how the Federal Reserve has bankrupted this country beyone imagine. What everyone is talking about is in this movie. it comes out july, 25 I believe.

Well as far as I can see, the only thing that will put an end to the giant mosquito bloodsucking bank system that only bleeds us and gives us disease is a total collapse of the entire system, to a point where people cannot pay and lose everything. But they also must be educated on the system that did them wrong in the first place by people who understand the system that put them there in the first place.
The way of life now, work, pay taxes, accept it and shut up, don't ask questions is too entrenched in how we think, we don't even think of the alternatives, unless we are forced to think differently.

When it is too late.

In 1832, when Jackson ran for re-election, he was the first president to take his campaign on the road. His slogan was "JACKSON and NO BANK!" Despite the fact that the bankers poured over $3 Million into Henry Clay's campaign to defeat Jackson, he still won by a landslide. When re-elected he stated "The hydra of corruption is only scotched, not dead". In 1833, he attempted to remove the government deposits in the bank, but people in that position refused to do so. He had to fire two people until, the third person selected was coming up for appointment, and he was opposed. Nicholas Bittle made the following bold statement after this event, "This worthy President thinks that because he has scalped indians and imprisoned judges, he is to have his way with the bank. He is mistaken." -- Then he made an even bolder statement, declaring that the bank would make money scares to get congress to restore the bank. He stated "Nothing but widespread suffering will produce any effect on Congress... Our only safety is in pursuing a steady course of firm restriction - and I have no doubt that such a course will ultimately lead to restoration of the currency and the recharter of the bank." This is what happened. But, Biddle blamed it all on Jackson. This led to his censure by Congress.
In 1834, the House voted against re-chartering the bank. Then this was followed up by an investigation into whether the bank had caused the crash. When the investigators arrived with subpoenas to get the evidence from Nicholas Biddle, they were denied any information. They were also refused info. concerning money he had given to congressmen prior to the vote, and he refused to testify before the committee.
In 1835, Jackson payed off the final installment on the national debt. He was the first and only president to ever do this. This debt was necessitated by the banks' issuing currency for government bonds instead of just issuing Treasury notes with such debt.

www.freedomdomain.com...

you see it is really quite simple. The next time the Federal reserves charter come up for renewal, i large lobby has to be in place to counter it. An extremely large lobby that no media can deny without scrutiny. So when the time come GO do it.

for canada im affraid it might not be that simple. It is in the american constitution that this cannot take place outside the power of congress. but canada is much younger than canada, and i'm not sure if out bill of rights has such clauses that would make such a charter an easy defeat.

Shocking info to say the least, and i wonder what would happen if every american understood this case, would it lead to a revolution ?

Originally posted by XyZeR
Shocking info to say the least, and i wonder what would happen if every american understood this case, would it lead to a revolution ?

There is alot of things leading to that.

If people stop acting braindead then we might be able to make them intellegent. Untill then.. All we got are a few people who things outside the box.

I did some searching around, and came across this interesting article:

External source

A newly published paper by a researcher for the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis warns that a ballooning budget deficit and pension and welfare timebomb is growing into a $65.9 trillion fiscal gap that will force the United States into bankruptcy.

How much is $65.9 trillion dollars?

"This figure is more than five times U.S. GDP and almost twice the size of national wealth," writes Kotlikoff.

Continued here

Wait a minute. What exactly is the scam being perpetrated here?

I can't figure it out from the posts in this thread. Some of you seem to think it's the fact that the US government subcontracts central banking functions, apparently in defiance of the Constitution. Others seem to think people's tax moneys are going into private bankers' pockets. Still others seem to believe that central banking, or just banking itself, is a scam. I'm a bit confused.

Among those who seem to believe that banking is itself the scam is Dae, who posted this link. The link is to an expose, which tries to show that banking is based on fraud and that bankers run the world. The article is superficially convincing, but is in fact full of fallacies. Here are just two:

At the end of the year, Fabian left his shop and visited all the people who owed him money. Some had more than they borrowed, but this meant that others had less, since there were only a certain number of coins issued in the first place.

This is the lump-of-value fallacy, which presumes that there is always only a fixed amount of value (or money) in the economy. In fact, the money supply is linked to the creation of value in an economy and is therefore variable; the amount of money in circulation is not arbitrarily limited but relates to the value of goods and services produced by the economy. [edit: and the value of the money itself changes, too.] Money supply is regulated by central banks (such as the Fed in the US); it is one of the functions of a central bank.

Incidentally, this explains something another poster reprehended, namely why the US government isn't represented on the board of the Fed. Actually, this is a good thing. Governments that control their central banks usually finds it impossible to resist the temptation to print money, causing inflation, followed by all kinds of economic distortions and ultimately (if left unchecked) ruin for the country. Countries where the government controls the central bank tend to be communist or socialist states, tin-pot dictatorships or third world hellholes.

A second fallacy in the page Dae linked to was this statement:

By simply writing out receipts Fabian was able to "lend" money to several times the value of gold in his strong-room, and he was not even the owner of it. Everything was safe so long as the real owners didn't call for their gold and the confidence of the people was maintained.

The first fallacy could be attributed to ignorance; this second looks more like a premeditated attempt to disinform. Banks don't lend -- and aren't permitted to lend -- multiples of their deposit base; what they do is lend multiples of their reserve, ie the amount of specie and paper kept on hand to honour withdrawals. This is usually about 10% of deposits, though the actual percentage may vary depending on the central bank rules in a given country. The remaining 90% of deposits is lent. If there's a 'run on the bank', ie simultaneous withdrawals amounting to more than the reserve, the bank's in trouble. Most of the time this doesn't happen.

The only way for a bank to lend more than its deposit base is for it to borrow from another source and re-lend at higher interest, which is what finance companies do. There's nothing wrong with this, either, provided the loan is repaid with interest in time. Where does the extra money come from to pay off the interest? Ultimately, it comes from the value generated by economic activity financed by the loan.

I'm not saying banking isn't dodgy. Banks tend to be irresponsible lenders, because they know governments have to back up their bad lending decisions more often than not, just in order to prevent a run on the banks and general economic collapse. A classic example is Japan, which is just beginning to recover from the consequences of an irresponsible lending spree in the Eighties and Nineties. The knowledge that governments will bail the banks out creates what bankers call 'moral hazard' -- in this case, the possibility of irresponsible lending decisions leading to a default, whose burden will be borne not by the bank shareholders but by the taxpaying public.

Thus my views. They may not be strictly relevant because, as I said, I'm still puzzled over what exactly the scam is supposed to be. I hope someone will enlighten me!

[edit on 17-7-2006 by Astyanax]

Originally posted by Astyanax
Wait a minute. What exactly is the scam being perpetrated here?

This is where the probem lies, if you are not we educated in economics how can you respond to this type of post? \i have read the other posts and they sound convincing, i have also watched a few movies and i sincerily beleive that some thing bad is going on with the FED, but once you get deep into this things can get confusing for the uneducated. It would be nice for a qualified econmist to comment on this thread...

Originally posted by sobolwolf
if you are not we educated in economics how can you respond to this type of post? once you get deep into this things can get confusing for the uneducated.

Perhaps it would be a good idea to educate oneself in economics. It's so much a part of daily life, you'd think people would want to learn more about it. Sadly, very few do.

Perhaps the reason they don't is that economics is such a confused field. Economic activity in the modern world is so universal, so elaborate and affects so many things that it's nearly impossible to account for all the variables affecting a given problem or situation. Economic theories tend to be awfully contingent, and even fundamental economic assumptions are forever being questioned and re-evaluated.

I'm not an economist, but I read The Economist. I reckon it helps, but Dae would probably call it submitting my brain to a weekly washing. Perhaps it is.

Incidentally, this explains something another poster reprehended, namely why the US government isn't represented on the board of the Fed. Actually, this is a good thing. Governments that control their central banks usually finds it impossible to resist the temptation to print money, causing inflation, followed by all kinds of economic distortions and ultimately (if left unchecked) ruin for the country. Countries where the government controls the central bank tend to be communist or socialist states, tin-pot dictatorships or third world hellholes.

The FED constantly prints money out of thin air...but you think the US would be tempted to print funny money if they printed their own money? LMAO

Is your name Rockefeller? It's having a private organization run the FED that is causing the problem. The people that own and operate it make $1 trillion per year. You don't see a problem with that? And that money they make is tax free. You still see no problem? You don't see a problem with the stock market crash of 1929 that the FED caused? You don't see a problem with a president realizing he sold his soul to the devil to become president? You don't see a problem with JFK stepping up and trying to finally put an end to the blood-letting and probably getting assassinated as a result. No problem for you?

You want to know what the scam is, all you have to do is read.....you want to turn a blind eye to it and pretend it's legitimate..that's fine. Whatever you need to do to sleep at night! The FED is capitalism OUT OF CONTROL. The people that own and operate the FED are the scum of the earth friend! Do you know what kind of global problems could be solved with $1 trillion per year? Do you have any clue at all? People are starving all over the planet while the owners of the FED make $1 trillion per year tax free.

You dont' see the scam? Then you must be blind!

Originally posted by Astyanax
I'm not an economist, but I read The Economist. I reckon it helps, but Dae would probably call it submitting my brain to a weekly washing. Perhaps it is.

Would you be surprised to find out that I regularly read economy news (via BBC)? The bank of Japan raised its interest rate from 0% to something under 1% not a day or so ago.

Do you read it and believe that it is all necessary and intrinsic to our existence? Or do you read for purely money interests? Id say that it is weekly washing if one believes in it.

So Astyanax, do you agree with how our ecomony works? If a bank loans out 100 and askes for 105 back, where is that 5 coming from? Is it right to make us squabble and fight to pay back the 5 that isnt there? Im interested in your thoughts as you have admitted to knownig and enjoying the topic at hand.