Hezbollah UAV Severely Damages Israeli Warship

Originally posted by Communication_Burger
Calm down,

I'm not uptight.

stop being so demanding. You want those links, look them up yourself,

That's not my job. That's YOURS. YOU claimed that what Lebanon did was
legitimate by international law. YOU have to prove your statement. Otherwise
it's not worth anything. That's the way it works on boards. You can't make
statements like you did without proof. You have none.

What has changed now?

I wouldn't know. You'd have to ask the Israelis. Perhaps they got tired of
bowing to criminals who kidnapped their people and ransomed out criminals
who are in Israeli jails. Go ask them. Who knows.

it is a legitimate act in accordance to international rules of law,

Again, prove your statement. That's how it works around here.

The fact you keep demanding links on international rules of War is obviously an indication that you don't know what the hell you're talking about

No. It proves that YOU haven't backed up your claim. And the fact that you
are still not backing it up proves that YOU don't know what you are talking about;
not me.

BTW .. in YOUR words .. calm down.

That is a ridiculous and completely innacurate analogy.

You can have your opinion, but it is not ridiculous or innaccurate.

It is very accurate. According to you it is 'legitimate' for Hezbollah terrorists
to get upset about who Israel arrests in Israel; arm themselves and their friends;
cross the border; attack a military post; kidnap soldiers; recross the
border; hold them for ransom for the release of criminals in jail ...
then it is perfectly 'legitimate' for me and my friends to do the same thing
for the criminals in Canadian jails. Same thing .. different part of the world.
See how WRONG that act would be? It's just as wrong for Hezbollah
terrorists to do it.

Hezbollah are bargaining for the release of detainees imprisoned
during Israel's occupation of their Country, as well as Palestine.

Again .. prove it. Your statement means nothing without proof. This is the
SECOND time you have been asked for proof. Show a credible listing of the
criminals in Israeli jails that Hezbollah is trying to get out. Show the criminals
and where they were detained. If you can't prove this ... your statement is
nothing more than opinion.

That's the way these discussions work. Show proof of your statements.
You've only been here a month so you might not have understood that.


[edit on 7/17/2006 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi
Hezbullah attacked Israel and Israel responded with restraint, so Hezbullah
seeing that they can get away with more attacked some more.

That is also my opinion. Why did Israel put it's foot down against the
terrorists now??? They should have been doing so from the beginning but
in any event, that's what they finally did. Why they did so is something
that only the Israeli government could answer. My GUESS is that they
finally had enough appeasement of terrorists and they figured out that
appeasement only caused more terrorism; and they finally fought back.

you know FlyersFan, you have a great point. We need to figure out who these militants want freed. I think that may be the problem. They have not specified exactly who they wish to be released. As global citizens, we must inquire to mediate this situation with our brothers and sisters of the human race.

How can we require Israel to request Hezbollah and Hamas to state the exact identities of the citizens they wish released from Israeli prisoners. If we can establish names, we can also establish numbers, and thus peaceful negotiations for the resolve of the current fiasco. Does this not sound liek a valid idea?

Who should I contact? Because I will contact them and find out. Do I need to call Israels embassy to US or vice versa? Do I need to contact my local representative or Senator and request that they press the issue in congress? Should I write a letter to the President? Seriously which one of these options should I take on in order to demand Israel actually negotiate through diplomacy rather than through violence. Yes violence has happened to Israel. Violence has happened to everyone in the world. But it is their duty, as well as the duty of every citizen in the world, to resolve the situation through diplomacy when possible (this is one of the times it is possible) so as not to destroy the lives of innocent human beings who had no control and absolutley nothing to do with any of the actions of the initiating party (which party initiated is debateable).

It is not what happened in the past that will affect peoples lives, it is what we do now that makes the changes.

Originally posted by DYepes
We need to figure out who these militants want freed.

Exactly right. It is impossible to adequately discuss the situation without
knowing exactly what it is that the Hezbollah is demanding. Who are the
people in the prisons that they want freed? What are they in jail for?
Where were they 'picked up'?? That kind of thing.

I did an internet search and couldn't find the list that Hezbollah wants
released. I did find info on one of the past releases. It goes into detail
about one of the people listed ... a person who admits to plotting to kill
and killing 50 Israelies

www.mia.org.il...

Earlier on this thread, this was said -

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi
Hezbullah wishes for the release of Samir Kuntar captured in Israel after he infiltrated Israel, killed a father, his 4 year old daughter and 2 policemen. Read up on this 'HERO'. Should he released???

I don't know where JudahMaccabbi got the information about this person being on
'the list' but perhaps JudahMaccabbi would be kind enough to provide a more
detailed listing - (if you have it JM!)??

How can we require Israel

We are not in a position to require Israel to do anything. Sorry, but we just
don't have that power. However, it could be possible for a grass-roots kind of
thing to make your elected DC officials take notice and have THEM demand
that our government demand something. That takes A LOT of numbers of
people at the grass roots level to get involved.

I'm cynical. I don't think people care that much about that part of the world.
As long as it isn't the USA blowing up, and as long as our life styles aren't effected
I really don't think America cares that much anymore. We are 'tired of caring'.
Sounds sad ... but I think that's where we are. Worn out.

demand Israel actually negotiate through diplomacy rather
than through violence.

Part of the problem is that, as was previously pointed out, Israel has released
criminals from their jails to get their kidnapped people back. This emboldened
the Hezbollah to again use the tactic. If Israel was to give in to Hezbollah demands
then Hezbollah would use this same tactic again to get what it wants.

Israel can't give Hezbollah the prisoners. However, if third party countries were
to be involved to review the cases ... it could work. But only if Israel was to get
it's kidnapped citizens back as well. I'm sure that this is being discussed at the
G8. It must be...



[edit on 7/17/2006 by FlyersFan]

He got the name from someone prior his posts who cited that this man has been in an Israeli prison for 28 years since the first invasion of Lebanon. That poster did not mention that the miltiants were demanding the release of this man, he merely read a fact somewhere and used this man as an example for whatever his point was. I do not believe that poster had even sourced anything.

ya know in the long run it's sorta hard to sympathize with either side in this little go round of missile tossing and sneak UAV attacks.

But I gotta say if someone launched a sucker punch at my border posts and ABDUCTED two of my troops I'd be for razing the entire bloody country side of whatever Chicken POOP adversary pulled that crap.

Originally posted by astral_ice
ya know in the long run it's sorta hard to sympathize with either side in this little go round of missile tossing and sneak UAV attacks.

But I gotta say if someone launched a sucker punch at my border posts and ABDUCTED two of my troops I'd be for razing the entire bloody country side of whatever Chicken POOP adversary pulled that crap.

Agreed, if that were the situation, but we don't get all the news through our lazy, ADHD US media.

Israel kidnapped a couple of Gaza civilians on June 24. The kidnapping of the IDF soldier was said to be in retaliation.

Have any US news media covered the first kidnapping? Have any NOT covered the second?

Israel's conflicts with Hamas, Hezbollah and other factions in its neighbor countries have been continuous.

The suicide bombers who go to Israel get lots of press coverage. the nearly 400% greater number of Arabs killed by Israel get almost no coverage in the US.

IMHO, Israel has long abandoned the "moral high ground" in this series of conflicts.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
We are not in a position to require Israel to do anything. Sorry, but we just
don't have that power. However, it could be possible for a grass-roots kind of
thing to make your elected DC officials take notice and have THEM demand
that our government demand something. That takes A LOT of numbers of
people at the grass roots level to get involved.

I'm cynical. I don't think people care that much about that part of the world.
As long as it isn't the USA blowing up, and as long as our life styles aren't effected
I really don't think America cares that much anymore. We are 'tired of caring'.
Sounds sad ... but I think that's where we are. Worn out.

It seems to me that no one is in a better position to levy requirements on israel than the US government. As a matter of fact it seems that we are in a position to levy requirements on most countries in the region. The US is bankrolling everyone to some degree.

U.S. Aid to Other Countries in the Region:
This impressive amount of aid becomes even more so when compared with the aid given to other countries in the Middle East. The $3 billion in annual aid to Israel-according to the most conservative estimate-compares with bout $2 billion for Egypt, $225 million for Jordan, and $35 million for Lebanon. U.S. aid to the Palestinian Authority (PA) is not earmarked, but it has been running at about $100 million a year.
Source

Imho without the US these people would be reduced to throwing sticks and stones at each other.
.

NO COMMENT
fromisraeltolebanon.info...

We are not in a position to require Israel to do anything.

That's simply untrue.

Given the amount US taxpayers are sending to Israel every year, I'd say the US is in position to demand quite a bit from Israel.

Despite the fact that Israel is the 16th wealthiest country in the world, and has a population of about 6.8 million, they get about 30% of the US's total foreign aid budget.

Per the US Embassy to Israel:

U.S. Assistance to Israel: FY2004
MILITARY
Military Grants (FMF) - $2.16 billion

* Cooperative Defense Programs - $136 million
* Interest on FMF - $38 million (Estimated)
* OSP Authority = 26% (est) of FMF = $565 million
Military Total: $2.33 Billion

ECONOMIC

* Scheduled Loan Guarantees - $3 billion
* Economic Grants (ESF) - $480 million
* Immigration & Resettlement Assistance - $50 million
* Educational & Exchange Programs - $1.6 million
Economic Total: $532 Million

[edit on 7/19/06 by xmotex]