Black Lodge Theories

I am curious of black lodge theories to any level? Please psot yours.

My personal thoughts are if there are some that practice on a higher level I imagine they don't go around talking about it, and for good reason. It can be left up for debate if there is a physical black lodge or group but the point is Masons practicing on a higher level and much deeper than the average sometimes active mason.

The Mason who has took the study out and beyond the books in his study. We see many masons that seem to be great historians on the craft but historians is where their journy stops. There maybe great philospohers and esoteric teachers but they speaka only in theory and never in practice.

It is the mason that is quite a bit smarter in understanding how things work in life,in after life, and in chapel perilous they know where to go and what to do. After they discover the truth on all the questions most esoteric minded masons go after, the very few take the step farther in spirtual practice and have an exposure to the deeper truth and meaning. Now afer that has settled in their system and they can handle it, it is than they are able to do various things ie telepathy,remote viewing,etc. Or simple sessions of gaming.

How many Masons have reached this level? Good question I imagine it would be only a few. How many would deny this? I would believe all, its a very dangerous subject and there is good reason you don't broadcast this. Could we say that the masons argue that is false that they know? I doubt it, like I said above it takes more than the simple minded to go to such extents. Its a rare network but do not doubt it is out there.

This is not theory but experience. How about you?

Originally posted by chemlabco
I am curious of black lodge theories to any level? Please psot yours.

The only person I'm familiar with who used the term "Black Lodge" was Aleister Crowley. In general, he used it to refer to Christianity.

It is the mason that is quite a bit smarter in understanding how things work in life,in after life, and in chapel perilous they know where to go and what to do. After they discover the truth on all the questions most esoteric minded masons go after, the very few take the step farther in spirtual practice and have an exposure to the deeper truth and meaning. Now afer that has settled in their system and they can handle it, it is than they are able to do various things ie telepathy,remote viewing,etc. Or simple sessions of gaming.

Wouldn't telepathy and remote viewing violate the laws of physics?

How many Masons have reached this level?

If such practices would violate the laws of nature, then wouldn't they impossible, and in turn, such a level would not exist?

Good question I imagine it would be only a few. How many would deny this? I would believe all, its a very dangerous subject and there is good reason you don't broadcast this. Could we say that the masons argue that is false that they know? I doubt it, like I said above it takes more than the simple minded to go to such extents. Its a rare network but do not doubt it is out there.

So to deny the impossible is simple minded? Why?

This is not theory but experience. How about you?

What experience would that be?

[edit on 14-7-2006 by chemlabco]

Interesting. Could anyone point me in the direction on information on the history of blakc lodges (if they exist/ed)?

I did a quick search and all I came up with was black lodges as in literal black lodges, black people lodges. I don't think thats exactly what you had in mind is it Chemlabco? I'll dig around a little and see what I can find.

In the occult world The Black Lodge is often used as a name for "competing" branches of occultism/mysticism/religion. In other words if your group doesn't follow the teachings of my guru you're a member of a black lodge (aka black brother, black brotherhood, etc..).

Black Lodge/White Lodge is not a formal term in Masonry but as far as I can tell it boils down to is the status of recognition between Lodges on a peer to peer basis.
Contrary to the official story (as is almost always the case in Freemasonry) not all brothers are brothers so to speak and there is constant feuding between individual lodges even those under the same Grand Lodge.
If a particular Lodge manages to perform something that actually hurts Freemasonry as a whole (for example being caught undeniably comitting a criminal act or visibly undermining another lodge) then the entire lodge may have its recognition formally revoked by the Grand Lodge it is chatered under.
This does not prevent it from maintaining informal ties of recognition with other Lodges but these ties are outside the accountability of the administraive body.
In some cases the Lodge may be reformed under a new name/number or may seek a new parent body but more often the Lodge is officially disolved.
However it is important to realise that a lodge is inherently built from a common bond shared by the bretheren, so it can never truly die if this bond still exists.
There would appear to be a great many of these "ex-temples in the hearts of men" still operating out there long after they ceased to officially exist.

Yeay! Mr. Necros is back!!! [genuinely pleased]

The quality of trolling has got so poor on this site recently, it's nice to get the experts back again. These newbies sure could learn a thing or two from the old guard IMO.

Anyway, since there are so many lodges being struck off but continuing anyway, perhaps you could give a few examples? I'm a bit mystified as this doesn't happen in England AFAIK.

[edit on 23-7-2006 by Trinityman]

The interpretation of the modern Gnostic movement is that the Black Lodge is basically the demons from the Hell Realms or Klipoth, and that we are all basically under the control of the Black Lodge as long as we don't eliminate the Legion(see the Christian Gospels) of "I's" or egos(known as the "Red Devils of Set" in the Pert Em Heru), that trap our Buddha Nature or Divine Consciousness within them.


The occult and so-called Religious schools who's Adepts are under this influence of the egos, are known as Black Lodges or schools of Baalim.

In the physical plain the Black Lodge mainly manifests as political Zionism(Rothschilds, Rockefellers, the Israeli government, etc. and just about every government these days).

Some Black Lodge Orders to beware of, would be the A.M.O.R.C., Skull & Bones Society, Scientology, the modern O.T.O., Philip Berg Kabbalah Center, the Drugpa(also Dugpa and Drukpa) clan which is a sub-sect of the Kagyu sect of Tibetan Buddhism, the "New Kadampa Tradition", and just about any of the "New Age" schools out there who "channel" such and such entity; and even some of the Gnostic schools claiming to be teaching the Gnosis of Samael Aun Weor(such as Mark Pritchard's school).

This is the Kali-Yuga; so most organizations are going to be under the control of the Black Lodge.

Of course as Cug mentioned, that many occult and various "Rosicrucian" schools like to accuse each other as being "Black Lodges".

And Cug of course would also not agree with what Samael Aun Weor and myself would consider to be the Black Lodge.


IMO, the following authors would be in alignment with the Gnosis of the White Lodge:


Any of the Prophets of almost all the traditional World Religions


Gnostics, Masons, Rosicrucians and Theosophists of the White Lodge:

Samael Aun Weor

Manly P. Hall

C.W. Leadbeater

Thomas Taylor(Platonist)

Bulwer Lytton

H.P. Blavatsky

Henry Steel Olcott

Godfrey Higgins(Druid)

Gerald Massey

Max Heindel

Rudolf Steiner

Arnold Krumm-Heller

Eliphas Levi

Dion Fortune

S.L. McGregor Mathers

Wynn Westcott

Franz Hartmann


Tibetan Buddhism:

H.H. The Dalai Lama

H.H. Sakya Trizin

Khenchen Thrangu Rinpoche

Longchen Rabjam(Longchenpa)

Dilgo Khyentse

Lama Yeshe

Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche

Namkhai Norbu


Yoga:

Swami Sivananda

Ramakrishna

Vivekananda

Sri Yukteswar

Paramahamsa Yogananda


Alchemists:

Paracelsus

Nicholas Flamel

Fulcanelli

Basil Valentine

Goethe

Roger Bacon

St. Germain

Cagliostro



And the list goes on and on; but this can give one an idea of what to look for, in regard to the common thread that runs through all these Initiate's and Adept's teaching of the "Secret Doctrine" if you will.

You'll find much about the Black and White Lodges if you type it in a ATS search, or search over at www.Gnosticteachings.com...






[edit on 23-7-2006 by Tamahu]

Originally posted by Masonic Light
The only person I'm familiar with who used the term "Black Lodge" was Aleister Crowley.

Really?

What about J.D. Buck, Dion Fortune, C.W. Leadbeater and a few others I've mentioned in the thread?

In general, he used it to refer to Christianity.

That's absurd, considering that Aberamentho(Master Yeshua) is the Head of the White Lodge.

See this thread: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Though I'd agree that most Christian churches are under the Black Lodges influence(look at how much blood shed has been committed in the name of Jesus).


Oh, and still I haven't forgotten that thread we were debating some of this in, Cug and Masonic Light(I've been busy and also getting distracted with other threads, but I'm working on my reply).

[edit on 23-7-2006 by Tamahu]

Originally posted by Tamahu

Really?

What about J.D. Buck, Dion Fortune, C.W. Leadbeater and a few others I've mentioned in the thread?

I don't recall those using the term "Black Lodge". I didn't say they didn't use it, only that I don't recall it.

As for the individuals themselves, Buck and Fortune are ok. I'm not a fan of Leadbetter.

That's absurd, considering that Aberamentho(Master Yeshua) is the Head of the White Lodge.

Crowley accepted the Buddhist/Jainist doctrine of annhilation of the self as inherent in the Great Work. Since Christianity attempts to preserve the ego forever through its concept of eternal life, Crowley viewed it as an obstacle which must be overcome on the Path of Return, making it, therefore, the "Black Lodge".

Lets concentrate on the subjects, not each other.

Originally posted by Cug
In the occult world The Black Lodge is often used as a name for "competing" branches of occultism/mysticism/religion. In other words if your group doesn't follow the teachings of my guru you're a member of a black lodge (aka black brother, black brotherhood, etc..).

They're, almost literally, demonized, made into demons, eh?

Originally posted by Masonic Light
Crowley accepted the Buddhist/Jainist doctrine of annhilation of the self as inherent in the Great Work. Since Christianity attempts to preserve the ego forever through its concept of eternal life, Crowley viewed it as an obstacle which must be overcome on the Path of Return, making it, therefore, the "Black Lodge".

I see.

But this shows his ignorance of the compatibility of Christianity and Buddhism.

The annhilation of the self(false self rather) or the ego, is Eternal Life.

The true teachings of Christianity also show the disciple how to eliminate the "I" or the "myself", as the false "I" has no intrinsic or self-existence.

When the egos or "I's" are completely eliminated, all that is left is the Buddha Nature which will blossom into the "Real I" or Omnipresent I AM(Kether/Christ), which is none other than the Dharmakaya of Buddhism(of course beyond that is Ain Soph/Adi-Buddha).

We often hear arguements from Buddhists which deny Atman(Chesed, the Self).

But in the esoteric teachings of Buddhism, it's not that Atman is necessarily completely denied; but that they do recognise that it is lower on the Bodhi Tree of Life than the level of complete Buddhahood.

Buddha Shakyamuni denied Atman to his disciples, mainly because the concept would hinder the students comprehension of the false self.

We see this in many pseudo-occult groups where people dream about transcending the "lower self" and attaining the "Higher Self", but really end up mistaking the false "I" for the "Higher Self".

We can see an apparent contradiction with the teachings of Samael Aun Weor regarding Anatman and Atman:

The Ego

If we further study the physical body with its vital organic base we will find that we have the ego. The ego is a conjunction of different inhuman elements that we have within ourselves. It is obvious that those elements are anger, greed, lust, envy, pride, laziness, gluttony, etc., etc., etc. There are so many Defects that even having one thousand tongues and a palate of steel, we could not enumerate all of them correctly. So, the ego is just this.

Some people enthrone the ego in their hearts, making an altar and worshipping it. These people are learned ignoramuses that believe that the ego by itself is something divine; really they are perfectly mistaken. Some others divide the “I” into two parts: “superior I” and “inferior I,” and they want to have the “inferior I” controlled by the “superior” one. People do not want understand that the “inferior section” and “superior section” are just two parts of the same thing.

The “I” is time, the “I” by itself is a book with many volumes, in this “I” we find all our aberrations, all our defects, all of what makes us authentic intellectual animals in the most perfect sense of the Word. Some believe that we have a divine “alter ego” and worship it, this is really just another way of finding excuses to save the “I,” to divinise it. But the “I” is still just the “I,” and that’s all.

“I am Atman, the Ineffable One.”

"I am what I am. I am the one who has always been, the one who will always be.

"The entire starry infinite is my body... The entire universe is my personality. This is why I express myself with strength and power, through my Arhats....

"I cry in the child. I sing in the bird and I flourish in my pomegranates.

"Now you must understand, brother of mine, the personality within the impersonality.

"Now you must comprehend, brother of mine, that the illusion of separatism is a heresy, and that the selfish personality of those who only want to be themselves, and nothing more than themselves, is the worst of the heresies.

"When I, Samael Aun Weor, affirm that we must have a strong and potent ‘I’ and a powerful and robust personality, I am not referring to the selfish personality, nor to the Animal ‘I’... I am referring only to the Divine ‘I’ and to our gigantic personality formed by all the beings of the Infinite.

"Atman thunders and flashes in all the infinite spaces and manifests Himself with potency, through his Arhats.

"Atman, the Ineffable One has no weaknesses. He expresses himself with power and majesty, through his prophets.

"Our ‘I’ is universal and all the bodies of all the living beings are the bodies of our Internal and Divine ‘I’.

"When we have spoken of a strong and powerful personality, many have not understood what is the personality within the impersonality. Thus, they have fallen into the horrible heresy of separatism.

"Brethren of mine, do not let yourselves be guided by the selfish personality of your mental body, nor by your animal intellect.

"You must listen only to the Innermost who resides in the heart. You must learn to hear the voice of the silence.

"When we speak of a Universal ‘I’, we do not fall into the absurdity of Annie Besant who forgot the individuality of the Innermost.

"We recognize the individuality within the unity of life and although we know that the drop sinks into the ocean, we also know that the ocean sinks into the drop.

"Atman is one who expresses Himself as many. The ardent sea of life, free in its movement, has many flames.

"However, all the flames, when joined, form the sea of ardent fire...the world of the mist of fire.

"The Innermost is individual and universal at the same time.

“I am the flame that burns in each human heart, as it burns in each grain and in the nucleus of each star.”

"I am the tree, the stone, the bird, the man, the light, the bread and the wine."

- Samael Aun Weor

Semantics become useless though.

What we need is direct comprehension, Gnosis.


And for those who would continue to argue against the Being of Atman; I would in turn ask how it is that Buddhism teaches about the Astral Body and also about the Trikaya(Christ), but not that which is between them on the Tree of Life(Atman)?

Of course the direct comprehension of the Spheres or various levels of Being, is far beyond the concepts of the mind and the "I", and thus require deep meditation and the elimination of the "I" through sexual Alchemy.

Also, every Bodhisattva vows to remain in Samsara(at least in part) until all Sentient Beings are liberated, or until the end of the Kalpa.

So, according to my intellectual understanding, at the end of the Kalpa, ALL Monads return to the Absolute, either as a Self-Realized Christ/Paramarthasatya, a Pratyeka Buddha, or a failure.

So it would seem that ther are three levels of Bliss within the Absolute during the Great Cosmic Night, which of course are all from the One Reality.


If you're interested, see this thread for some important info in regard to Emptiness(there are many others there as well):

www.gnosticteachings.org...




Regards








[edit on 25-7-2006 by Tamahu]

Originally posted by Masonic Light
I'm not a fan of Leadbetter.

Ah, I think it was you who mentioned a nick-name("lend-a-hand Leadbeater") he got for "teaching young men to masturbate" or something along such lines.

What I understand about this, is that he was teaching them the White version of the Vajroli Mudra, which is a technique of sexual sublimation for bachelors.

It is not masturbation.

Samael Aun Weor mentions that no lustful thought should enter our minds during this practice(it does involve a massage of the sexual organs), as masturbation is of the infernal sphere of Lilith.

Vajroli Mudra


A practice common to Hindu and Tibetan Yogas.

As described by Swami Sivananda in his book Kundalini Yoga:

"This is an important Yogic Kriya in Hatha Yoga. You will have to work
hard to get full success in this Kriya. There are very few people who
are experts in this act... This Kriya is of immense use for keeping up
perfect Brahmacharya... Even a drop of semen cannot come out of the
Yogi who practises this Mudra... The Yogi, who draws his semen up and
preserves it, conquers death. Good smell emanates from his body... The
object of Vajroli Mudra is to be perfectly established in Brahmacharya.
When aspirants practise this Mudra, they unconsciously divert their
mind to sexual centres and thereby they cannot get any success. When
you see the description of this Mudra, you will clearly understand that
strict Brahmacharya is absolutely necessary... This must be done under
the direct guidance of a Guru."

Master Samael indicated that certain aspects of the traditional Vajroli
are damaging to the organism. He taught a safe method in the
transcribed book "The Tibetan Rites of Rejuvenation."

"It causes us great horror to know that the tenebrous black magicians
of the Dag Dugpa clan (those who are dedicated to the fatal and
horrible black tantrism) ejaculate the seminal liquor during their
practices of black magic. These black magicians have a fatal technique
that enables them to reabsorb the spilled semen. Such a technique is
known as black vajroli. This practice is completely negative; therefore
we do not even want to explain the procedure. We know that there exist
many people with very weak mentalities, who could easily be led into
practicing such horrible black tantrism. Karma would then fatally fall
upon us. The spilled semen is mixed with feminine “verya” (feminine
semen) and afterwards it is re-absorbed. Thus, it is horribly recharged
with atoms of the secret enemy. These are satanic atoms that are
collected from the atomic infernos of the human being. The inevitable
result of this black tantrism is the descent of the serpent towards the
atomic abyss of Nature. This is how the human personality ends. It is
definitely disconnected from its Divine Spirit. The human being is then
transformed into a demon. The Arcanum A.Z.F. (Urdhvarata) was practiced
within the ashrams of ancient India. At that time, yogis were prepared
for sexual magic with the white vajroli. Unfortunately, the brothers
and sisters of the temple committed scandalous acts, which discredited
sexual magic. The Gurujis then pulled the curtains of esoterism shut,
and the Arcanum A.Z.F. was forbidden." - from The Yellow Book

The Black version practiced by the Dugpas and some Indian sects is certainly something else:

The forms of Tantrism


..However, the Black Yogis from the clan of Dagdugpa never perform the contact of the Solar and Lunar Atoms inside the organism; they always do it outside the organism.

These Black Yogis (Asura Samphata) commit the crime of ejaculating the semen (Shuhra) during the Maithuna. They do this in order to mix their semen with feminine Raja. Thus, this is how they achieve the contact of the Solar and Lunar Atoms within the same woman's Yoni.

Undoubtedly, the most difficult thing for these Red Hat Bons and Dugpas is the reabsorbing of the Seminal Liquid after having ejaculated it.

A certain terribly malignant psychic type of force exists in this reabsorbing process.

Incorrectly applied, the Vajroli Mudra (in combination with their Mental Force) allows these Red Hat Bons and Dugppas to absorb their spilled Seminal Liquor through their urethra.

During the ordinary sexual contact the Intellectual Animal spills millions of Solar Atoms of very high voltage. These are immediately replaced by billions of Satanic Atoms from the Secret Enemy, and these are collected from within the Atomic Infernos of the human being by means of the process of contraction (orgasm) of the sexual organs after the coitus.

When the semen is not spilled, then the Solar Atoms return inward and upward through Ida and Pingala. Then the Solar Atoms extraordinarily multiply in quantity and quality.

However, the spilled semen (which the Black Tantras reabsorb through their urethra by extracting it from within the vagina) in fact, has already converted itself into a frightful accumulator of Satanic Atoms.

When these types of Abnormal Satanic Atoms intend to rise up to the Golgotha of the Father (the Brain), they violently are cast down against the coccyx by the Three Akashic Breaths that work in Ida, Pingala and Shushumna.

These types of seminal malignant atoms are precipitated through Ida and Pingala. They violently struggle in order to reach the brain; however all of their efforts are useless because the Three Akashic Breaths cast them down against that region of the coccyx where a Malignant Atom has its habitat and also the power to place the Abominable Kundabuffer Organ into activity...

(Note: Not all Bons are black magicians as H.P. Blavatsky assumed, in fact some of them are Christified Masters as Samael Aun Weor later recognized)







[edit on 25-7-2006 by Tamahu]

Originally posted by Tamahu


But this shows his ignorance of the compatibility of Christianity and Buddhism.

The annhilation of the self(false self rather) or the ego, is Eternal Life.

But Crowley was ignorant of neither Christianity nor Buddhism, and had practiced both, at different times, with great devotion. The annhilation of the Self may be compatible with the so-called "gnostic heresies", but not with orthodox Pauline Christianity, which seeks eternal preservation of the self. It was the latter that Crowley labeled the "Black Lodge" (although he once defined a "Black Brother" as anyone who says "I am I", not necessarily limiting it to Christians, but also to Muslims, Jews, Hindus who accept the doctrine of Atman, etc.).

Ah, I think it was you who mentioned a nick-name("lend-a-hand Leadbeater") he got for "teaching young men to masturbate" or something along such lines.

Wasn't me; I think it was Researcher. Anyway, I couldn't care less about Leadbetter's romantic excursions. He was a homosexual, but the reason I'm not a fan is not because of that, but because he was nuttier than a Christmas fruitcake. He bought into all that Krishnamurti stuff, which IMHO is even worse superstition than exoteric Christianity. Personally, I prefer the method of Scientific Illuminism.

Originally posted by Masonic Light
But Crowley was ignorant of neither Christianity nor Buddhism, and had practiced both, at different times, with great devotion. The annhilation of the Self may be compatible with the so-called "gnostic heresies", but not with orthodox Pauline Christianity, which seeks eternal preservation of the self. It was the latter that Crowley labeled the "Black Lodge"

You mean the Apostle Paul?

Forgive my ignorance regarding "Pauline Christianity", but as far as I know it is in reference to the teachings of the Apostle Paul of the New Testament, no?

If so, then it looks like many so called Gnostics speak in ignorance, when they say that the teachings of Paul are in conflict with Gnosis.

The Secret Doctrine of Master Yeshua(Gnosis) as taught by Paul is Gnosis.

So Paul isn't to blame, if the majority of Christian Churches only teach and/or know of the exoteric side of Paul's teachings.

And if A. Crowley didn't understand that Paul was Gnostic, then perhaps he was fooled by the same Black Lodge that controls many of the modern 'Christian' churches.

Paul

"Paul of Tarsus, the furious persecutor of Gnostics, received the sacred Initiation after the event which occurred to him on his way to Damascus. He left the custom of persecuting the Christians, and he adopted the Gnostic customs. So, he became a Gnostic Christian prophet." - The Revolution of Beelzebub

The Seven Words (4)

...Now comes Paul of Tarsus. This Master is presently incarnated and he is Master Hilarion. Said Master is the author of the book entitled Light on the Path. Master Hilarion unfolds in the Ray of Science. He is a Master of the Ray of Mercury...

The Gnostic Church

It has already been decisively confirmed that Jesus the Christ was Gnostic. The Saviour of the World was an active member of the cast of Essenes, mystics who never cut their hair or their beards.

The Gnostic Church is the authentic Primitive Christian Church whose first Pope was the Gnostic Initiate called Peter. Paul of Tarsus belonged to that church. He was a Nazarene. The Nazarenes were another Gnostic sect.

The Primitive Christian Church was the true main esoteric trunk from which many other Neo-Christian sects sprung forth, such as: Roman Catholicism, Protestantism, Adventism, the Armenian Church, etc.

Frankly, we have made the resolution to make the root of Christianity, Gnosticism, publicly known. This is the Primitive Christian Church. The Patriarch Basilides belonged to the Gnostic church. He was the celebrated alchemist who left a seven page book of lead, which, according to Master Krumm Heller, is preserved in the Kiercher Museum of the Vatican. This book cannot be understood by archaeologists because it is a book of occult science. Basilides was a disciple of Saint Matthias.

Roman Catholicism of today is not true Catholicism. Legitimate, authentic, Catholicism is the Primitive Christian Catholic Gnostic one. The current Roman Sect is only a deviation of Primitive Gnostic Catholicism. Frankly, this is the basic reason why we have completely distanced ourselves from the Roman Sect.

Saints such as: Saturninus of Antioch, the celebrated Kabbalist, belonged to the Primitive Christian Catholic Gnostic Church; Simon the Magician, who unfortunately deviated; Carpocrates, who founded several Gnostic convents in Spain; Marcion of Ponto, Saint Thomas, Saint Valentine; the Great Master of Major Mysteries called Saint Augustine; Tertullian; Saint Ambrose; Irenaeus; Hippolytus; Epiphanius; Clement of Alexandria; Mark, the Great Gnostic who took care of the Holy Gnostic Unction and left us the extraordinary teachings about the path of sexual forces through the twelve zodiacal doors of the human organism. Also Cerdon, Empedocles, Saint Geronimo and many other saints were members of the Primitive Christian Catholic Gnostic Church from which the current Roman sect deviated.

Originally posted by Masonic Light
(although he once defined a "Black Brother" as anyone who says "I am I", not necessarily limiting it to Christians, but also to Muslims, Jews, Hindus who accept the doctrine of Atman, etc.).

And as referred to earlier, the apparent conflict between Atman and Anatman only exists exoterically.

The conflict is in the mind; Atman and Anatman are really One.

From what I understand, the Buddhas only apparently deny the existence of Atman to disciples who they can see would become too attached to the idea of an "Eternal Self" or "Superior I".

originally posted by Masonic Light
Wasn't me; I think it was Researcher.

Sorry about that.

originally posted by Masonic Light
Anyway, I couldn't care less about Leadbetter's romantic excursions. He was a homosexual, but the reason I'm not a fan is not because of that, but because he was nuttier than a Christmas fruitcake.

Says who?

Perhaps he's being slandered.

originally posted by Masonic Light
He bought into all that Krishnamurti stuff, which IMHO is even worse superstition than exoteric Christianity. Personally, I prefer the method of Scientific Illuminism.

According to Samael Aun Weor, C.W. Leadbeater was actually clairvoyant, and did see that Krishnamurti was a highly realized individual; but the problem is that Leadbeater's intellectual culture was not refined enough, therefore causing him to misinterpret what he saw.

Krishnamurti was very intelligent; however, due to the trauma caused by some of the Theosophists, he became fanatically anti-religious.


The following lecture is very interesting regarding all that:

The Krishnamurti Case


A great conflict occurred inside the Theosophical Society during those times when Annie Besant was occupying the presidency of this marvelous organization, whose founder was the great Initiate Helena Petrovna Blavatsky.

The problem that presented itself was the Krishnamurti case.

Lady Besant lifted her finger aloft in order to asseverate to the four winds that the Hindu boy Krishnamurti was the living Reincarnation of Jesus Christ.

The great clairvoyant Leadbeater and other eminent Theosophists totally agreed with Lady Besant. All of them were asserting that the Hindustani boy was Jesus Christ newly reincarnated.

We still remember the foundation of that order named The Star of the East whose unique purpose was to welcome the Messiah. Later on, Krishnamurti himself dissolved it.

A division occurred within the bosom of the Theosophical Society in that epoch.

Some of them were asserting that Krishnamurti was the Messiah. Others did not accept such a concept; thus they withdrew from the Theosophical Society.

The powerful illuminated clairvoyant, eminent intellectual, founder of the Anthroposophic Society, Dr. Rudolf Steiner, appears among those who withdrew. The work of Rudolf Steiner is grandiose. His books are wells of profound wisdom.

The Spaniard group Marco Aurelio also withdrew from the Theosophical Society.

The incision that occurred within the bosom of that famous Theosophical Society was a true tragedy.

We need to analyze the Krishnamurti case.

Originally posted by Masonic Light
Crowley accepted the Buddhist/Jainist doctrine of annhilation of the self as inherent in the Great Work. Since Christianity attempts to preserve the ego forever through its concept of eternal life, Crowley viewed it as an obstacle which must be overcome on the Path of Return, making it, therefore, the "Black Lodge".

The black lodge referred to those that had attempted to cross the abyss and had failed. By holding on to even one speck of the ego-complex in the passing of the abyss condemned one to dwell in daath - the place of the black brothers. "The only sin is restriction." The black brothers(members of the black lodge) attempt to draw others into their misguided misfortune. The ego perishes and all is naught. In a sense, by not accepting the advent of the new aion spiritual advancement would inevitably lead to failure and admittance into the black lodge.

Originally posted by Tamahu




You mean the Apostle Paul?

Yes.

Forgive my ignorance regarding "Pauline Christianity", but as far as I know it is in reference to the teachings of the Apostle Paul of the New Testament, no?

Yes.

If so, then it looks like many so called Gnostics speak in ignorance, when they say that the teachings of Paul are in conflict with Gnosis.

The Secret Doctrine of Master Yeshua(Gnosis) as taught by Paul is Gnosis.

Paul condemned Gnosticism in his Epistles. For whatever reason, every time Paul used the word the "gnosis" in the original Greek, the KJV translates it as either "science" or "philosophy". For example when the KJV quotes Paul as talking about "vain philosophy" and "science, falsely so called", he was actually trying to combat Gnosticism, which he viewed as heretical.

And if A. Crowley didn't understand that Paul was Gnostic, then perhaps he was fooled by the same Black Lodge that controls many of the modern 'Christian' churches.

Crowley was aware that Paul (or at least whomever wrote the epistles in question, if not Paul) was anti-Gnostic.

The conflict is in the mind; Atman and Anatman are really One.

Nay, are none!

From what I understand, the Buddhas only apparently deny the existence of Atman to disciples who they can see would become too attached to the idea of an "Eternal Self" or "Superior I".

It's actual sort of tricky to try to discuss (the Tao that can be spoken is not the true Tao, etc.). The Buddhists deny the existence of anything that can be held down; their basic belief is that everything is in a constant state of flux, so when we try to define something, it's already changed and the definition will no longer fit. Therefore, instead of stability, there is an emptiness at the root of existence.

According to Samael Aun Weor, C.W. Leadbeater was actually clairvoyant, and did see that Krishnamurti was a highly realized individual; but the problem is that Leadbeater's intellectual culture was not refined enough, therefore causing him to misinterpret what he saw.

I think Leadbetter was sexually attracted to the adolescent Krishnamurti, which clouded any clairvoyance that he may or may not have had. Anyway, I agree with Crowley on this one, that by that time, there was not a single member of the Theosophical Society that wasn't also a dual member of Imbeciles Anonymous.

Krishnamurti was very intelligent; however, due to the trauma caused by some of the Theosophists, he became fanatically anti-religious.

Agreed.

Originally posted by Masonic Light
Paul condemned Gnosticism in his Epistles. For whatever reason, every time Paul used the word the "gnosis" in the original Greek, the KJV translates it as either "science" or "philosophy". For example when the KJV quotes Paul as talking about "vain philosophy" and "science, falsely so called", he was actually trying to combat Gnosticism, which he viewed as heretical.

It looks like Paul was not referring to Gnosis itself, but to false Gnosis.

Why would an Apostle of a Gnostic Master(Yeshua) be anti-Gnostic?

I've wondered why the likes of Iraneaus, St. Augustine, Hippolytus(all Gnostics according to Samael Aun Weor), etc. were apparently writing against the Gnostics; and the answer a Gnostic instructor gave me was this:

"Just so, there are many "Gnostics" today who are opposed to the "Gnosis" you uphold! They say it is not Gnosis, and what they believe is. And they write reams of books, which readers take as authorities. So who is right? How can a reader tell? What is in a name, anyway? And how can you tell what is what from reading some old books? Some call me a Gnostic, and criticize me. Some call themselves Gnostic, and say I am not. Do you think things were so different in past eras? Studying those old books at their literal level is like trying to get a meal from the ash of the oven."

It's actual sort of tricky to try to discuss (the Tao that can be spoken is not the true Tao, etc.). The Buddhists deny the existence of anything that can be held down; their basic belief is that everything is in a constant state of flux, so when we try to define something, it's already changed and the definition will no longer fit. Therefore, instead of stability, there is an emptiness at the root of existence.

It is tricky to discuss(as I've been saying).

But even though Buddhism recognizes the Emptiness of all phenomena; it still recognizes that the Way that phenomena are born, interact with other phenomena, and disintigrate, is in accordance with specific laws(this is where Cosmology/Cosmogony and the Tree of Life step in)

I think Leadbetter was sexually attracted to the adolescent Krishnamurti, which clouded any clairvoyance that he may or may not have had.

You still haven't answered my question.

All this is according to who?

Anyway, I agree with Crowley on this one, that by that time, there was not a single member of the Theosophical Society that wasn't also a dual member of Imbeciles Anonymous.

For the most part I suppose.

But what made A. Crowley any more sane than Annie Besant or C.W. Leadbeater?(I really doubt the latter was a homosexual)

More intellectual and cunning perhaps, but not any more sane.

Wouldn't telepathy and remote viewing violate the laws of physics?

Hi ML! I believe that you are thinking of "Tele-Kinesis" & NOT "Tele-Pathy". Thought is a form of Energy. If you think of the Brain as a Receiver & Transmitter - then it is not against the law of physics to have this energy called "Thought" to be transferred between two brains. As for Remote Viewing - what is the difference between that & all of the "Astral Plane" stuff that gets mentioned?

Though I'd agree that most Christian churches are under the Black Lodges influence (look at how much blood shed has been committed in the name of Jesus).

The Secret Doctrine of Master Yeshua (Gnosis) as taught by Paul is Gnostic.

So Paul isn't to blame, if the majority of Christian Churches only teach and/or know of the exoteric side of Paul's teachings.

Sorry ML - I am going to have to agree with Tamahu on this one!

I think the reason why Crowely labeled "Christianity" of the "Black Lodge" is because - in his view - of its association with the Osirian/Piscean Age.

Now lets take a look at the Book of the Law:

1:41 "The word of Sin is Restriction."

2:5 "Behold! the rituals of the old time are *Black*. Let the evil ones be cast away; let the good ones be purged by the prophet!"


Can you see how this could conflict with the ideals of the "New Aeon of Horus"?

[edit on 30-7-2006 by Seraphim_Serpente]