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Signs of the End of Time ..The Media Conspiracy to hide them

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posted on Jul, 21 2006 @ 07:34 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by thermopolis
you miss the fact that I am 100% correct. As usual

And when, as usual, the world fails to come to an apocalyptic end, and the messiah fails to return 'today today today', and you are shown, once again, to not be 100% correct, are you going to give up your faith in jesus christ as saviour?




Once again NO, I will not.

Will you? Or have you already.

All things in prophesy are happening NOW, NOW,NOW.

It would appear you are a member of the conspiracy in the original title of this thread and are proving my point so very well.

As all the signs reveal themselves, I will expect YOU at my door asking for help.

I will pray for you. Perhaps I will even share my vaccines, iodine, and food with you.

Point. last years Tsunami was caused by an asteroid............




posted on Jul, 21 2006 @ 07:44 PM
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Originally posted by Shortness

All "true"christians are part of spiritual israel, how you can consider that the United States is part of Israel when we are suppose to be a country that has a seperation of church and state is beyond me. Of course with the way you are implying the U.S. as Israel, it must mean that separation of church and state must unite, and the 1st amendment of hte constitution must be abolished, and reworded "congress shall make laws prohibiting all religions except christianity because we are Israel"

edit: the scary thing is, with so many powerful and influential christian zionists aka the religious right, and thier takeover of the republican party, what i mention above CAN happen.



[edit on 21-7-2006 by Shortness]


Point, there is NO seperation clause in the consitution. The first ammendment only says congress shall make no law.........

I would love to read your copy of the consitution to read all the words scribbled in between the lines. Most likely in your own handwritting....


Your use of the work "zionist" is an interesting slip........



posted on Jul, 21 2006 @ 09:41 PM
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Obviously then shane, since you take those verses literally, we would have to do the same thing for all of Revelation. It'll be literal Beasts that come out of the earth and water that will rule the world, I wonder if it'll look more like a goat or maybe even a dog?


And to go even further, will that 144000 be all literal virgins then, or is it that you can pick and choose which are literal and which are metaphorical.

Taking a literal interpretation that all the tribes of Israel literally means that they are all Jews from thier respective tribes and all are literal virgins doesn't sound very logical, especially considering how many Jews today have lost thier tribal lineage what with intermarriage and all.


Or perhaps, just maybe, we should try to understand that Revelations is filled with allegories and metaphors, and possibly not literal israel, but spiritual israel.

If we keep within the context of who the writing was for...


Revelation 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.


and we apply it with the verses i provided that one is not a jew outwardly but one that is inwardly in Christ, and if you be of Christ then you are heirs of Abraham and you are grafted in as part of Israel, it makes sense to connect the complete 12 tribes of Israel as all people who have faith in Christ, and not LITERAL Israel. Keep in mind this was written for the CHURCH, which was predominately Gentile converts.

I'd also like to add the list of the 12 tribes in Revelation differ from the list in Ezekiel 48:29-35. In this list Joseph is listed instead of Ephraim and Manasseh. Levi is included but so is Dan.

Why was Levi included in Revelation but not in Ezekiel?


Num 1:47 But the Levites after the tribe of their fathers were not numbered among them.
Num 1:48 For the LORD had spoken unto Moses, saying,
Num 1:49 Only thou shalt not number the tribe of Levi, neither take the sum of them among the children of Israel:
Num 1:50 But thou shalt appoint the Levites over the tabernacle of testimony, and over all the vessels thereof, and over all things that belong to it: they shall bear the tabernacle, and all the vessels thereof; and they shall minister unto it, and shall encamp round about the tabernacle.


If taken literal this is an obvious contradiction of God's Word, but if you believe Revelation 7 where it talks about the 12 tribes as all of spiritual israel, then there is no contradiction.



posted on Jul, 21 2006 @ 09:47 PM
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Originally posted by thermopolis
Point, there is NO seperation clause in the consitution. The first ammendment only says congress shall make no law.........


So by your reasoning, since the word rapture isn't in the bible, there is no such thing as a rapture then right?

Ever heard of the Treaty of Tripoli?


Authored by American diplomat Joel Barlow in 1796, the following treaty was sent to the floor of the Senate, June 7, 1797, where it was read aloud in its entirety and unanimously approved. John Adams, having seen the treaty, signed it and proudly proclaimed it to the Nation.


Please notice the date it was signed. Most if not all the signers of the Constitution and DoI were still alive when this was UNANIMOUSLY APPROVED.


"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."


So how about that propoganda that this is a christian nation.

Point, the word GOD is not in the constitution.

edit: if you want to take a look at actual document

www.nobeliefs.com...



[edit on 21-7-2006 by Shortness]



posted on Jul, 21 2006 @ 09:48 PM
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I don't think we'll be seeing any 7 headed monsters any time soon.

[edit on 14-7-2006 by VelvetSplash]


Right now, I don't think I'd be so possitive of that. Things are getting wierd even from an anthiests point of view. Science is advancing astronomically.



posted on Jul, 21 2006 @ 10:07 PM
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Originally posted by thermopolis
Point, there is NO seperation clause in the consitution. The first ammendment only says congress shall make no law.........



So by your reasoning, since the word rapture isn't in the bible, there is no such thing as a rapture then right?


ahh no there is not pre-tribulation rapture



Ever heard of the Treaty of Tripoli?


errr Treaty of Tripoli does not spell Constitution to me.........nor an ammendment.........so your "point" is mute.........



[edit on 21-7-2006 by Shortness]



posted on Jul, 21 2006 @ 10:18 PM
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errr Treaty of Tripoli does not spell Constitution to me.........nor an ammendment.........so your "point" is mute.........


Why? A secular document signed by all in the senate in George Washington's 2nd term that said that the United States was not a christian nation thus proves just that, we are not a christian nation. What happened to Deny Ignorance? You seem to be embracing it.

It's dissapointing to see you won't even look at the actual document that said that, and i provided the link that shows the actual document, SIGNED and UNANIMOUSLY APPROVED by MOST/ALL the signers of the declaration of independence and Constitution. Just goes to show no matter what evidence is provided, people don't care because it doesnt agree with thier beliefs.

Can't you see this document signed by the founders contradict the propaganda the Religious Right is spewing to its followers to make you think that we should Get rid of the seperation of wall between church and state? Don't you know what happens when Religion is mixed with politics? You get the revival of the same power that was established during the reign of the papacy. ANd it will be that kind of power which will make war with the last remnant of God's people

www.nobeliefs.com...

^
Follow-up of a person who checked the library of Congress to see if it was true, and newspaper archives of the day it was signed about any complaints about the statement " was not founded by the Christian Religion"


[edit on 21-7-2006 by Shortness]

[edit on 21-7-2006 by Shortness]



posted on Jul, 21 2006 @ 11:38 PM
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I pray the rapture happens and takes all the christians away...


Lighten up people....... Overpopulation always causes problems, And resource stealing has always happened.

So what if we are the evil empire....God will forgive YOU. Yes , You with the WHO FARTED hat
All other Christians who are not wearing the 'who farted hat' will have to stay here with the rest of the heathen. Cuz God has his favorites, I just haven't figured out if they are Jews, Christians, or Catholics. Maybe it's one of the lost Christian religions. and everybody is sticking around for the mass extinction....

I pray for all people who have such huge insecurities as to take comfort in their superiority. The christian club will probably garner millions of new recruits because it is my personal belief based on my life experience, that Christians need their religion because of GUILT. For whatever reason, the guilt lays, they can't get rid of it- and it is also a great religion for CRIMINALS. Because they are usually already PROVEN guilty. So if it helps a criminal to have a conscience, I say YEAH- Let Jesus wash away your sins. come into the light, and praise the LORD!

I have guilt, I have sin, but I will forsake HIM, because I don't believe in Christianity, Muslim, HInduism, or JewISM
But I do believe in God, and, Goddesses, so fire away....
Just remember this, before you flame me.... Faith- no matter how you come by it is a gift. You can either accept it, or you can give it back!



posted on Jul, 21 2006 @ 11:51 PM
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ahh no there is not pre-tribulation rapture


I have yet to see anyone that would back these words with scripture.

I keep seeing this comment, and I keep asking for someone to prove this statement.

Maybe you're right? Can you prove you are?

Thanks
SUN MATRIX.



posted on Jul, 21 2006 @ 11:57 PM
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Originally posted by Shortness
I wonder if it'll look more like a goat or maybe even a dog?


It will look like Apollo, perfect, as he was made in the begining. He had a duty, and fell with his Cohort's. He's the Beast. He is the one who stand's where he should not, ceasing the sacrafice.

A Dog?
Please.

And I leave this since I just can't believe this


And to go even further, will that 144000 be all literal virgins then, or is it that you can pick and choose which are literal and which are metaphorical.

Taking a literal interpretation that all the tribes of Israel literally means that they are all Jews from thier respective tribes and all are literal virgins doesn't sound very logical, especially considering how many Jews today have lost thier tribal lineage what with intermarriage and all.


Where are Virgins Noted? Taking a literal interpetation that all the tribes of Israel means that they are all Jews? Considering how many Jews today?

What are you reading?? Literal Interpetation is Revelations is exactly that. Where does it ever say, anywhere in the Bible, that Jews are all the tribes of Israel? The Jews make up 1/12 of Israel. There Are Dan, and Zebulon and Ben and Asher, and so on.

A Jew today is one of two things. Either a decendant of Judah, or a Cainite claiming to be of Judah. This is what gets taught in the Book of Revelations.

The Churches my friend. The Churches are all reviewed. Two of those seven Churches met with God's Approval. 5/7ths of those "Churches" FAILED. But there is still forgiveness as an alternative for those.

Maybe you should review Revelations Chapter 2. Look and see what is taught by the Churches in Smyrna (Rev 2:9 "I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan." ) and Philadelphia (Rev 3:9 "Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. ")

But I guess that's the problem with "Religion". It ignores GODS WORD infavour of twisting Christ's Life and the Groundwork laided out by Paul to build the Chruch, to glorify themselves, rather than God.


If we keep within the context of who the writing was for...

Revelation 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

and we apply it


If we also keep in mind, the Angel told and gave this Revelation to John, and the Revelation is completed.

Jesus is telling John to remember what the church needs to do. TEACH GOD'S WORD, and follow these instructions.

Of Course Jesus is the Root and offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. This is what is said in God's Word. This is what the prophecies proclaimed.


I'd also like to add the list of the 12 tribes in Revelation differ from the list in Ezekiel 48:29-35. In this list Joseph is listed instead of Ephraim and Manasseh. Levi is included but so is Dan.

Why was Levi included in Revelation but not in Ezekiel?

If taken literal this is an obvious contradiction of God's Word, but if you believe Revelation 7 where it talks about the 12 tribes as all of spiritual israel, then there is no contradiction.

en.wikipedia.org...

Tribe of Ephraim (Hebrew alphabet אֶפְרַיִם / אֶפְרָיִם "double fruitfulness", Standard Hebrew Efráyim, Tiberian Hebrew ʾEp̄ráyim / ʾEp̄rāyim) took precedence over that of Manasseh by virtue of Jacob's blessing (Gen. 41:52; 48:1). The descendants of Joseph formed two of the tribes of Israel, whereas each of the other sons of Jacob was the founder of only one tribe. Thus there were in reality thirteen tribes; but the number twelve was preserved by excluding that of Levi when Ephraim and Manasseh are mentioned separately (Num. 1:32-34; Josh. 17:14, 17; 1 Chr. 7:20).


GOD'S WORD does not contradict itself my friend. Man contradicts GOD'S WORD all by himself.

Ciao

Shane



posted on Jul, 22 2006 @ 12:51 AM
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Originally posted by Sun Matrix




ahh no there is not pre-tribulation rapture


I have yet to see anyone that would back these words with scripture.

I keep seeing this comment, and I keep asking for someone to prove this statement.

Maybe you're right? Can you prove you are?

Thanks
SUN MATRIX.


I tend to refer to Paul's work, and trust this can be considered.


1 Thessalonians

4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep ( those that are dead ), that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. ( When Jesus died, he went to those who slept, and preached the Word, and when he arose, those who accepted Christ, also went to heaven. This was his defeat of Death)
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. ( We can not stop the Dead from going to Heaven. To be absent of the Flesh is to be in the presence of the Lord. The Dead are already there, so those that live until his return, can not be there before those that have fallen asleep.)
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words. ( MY INSERTS)



Verse 16 and 17, are a point of time, where, those that are left, are changed in the twinkling of an Eye (A Blink) into our heavenly body, but the Dead, shall rise first, since their Spirits are already there..

We then see a hasty letter written again to the Thessalonians.


2 Thessalonians

1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: (The Rapture?)
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness (MY INSERT )


Here, Paul is beseeching, about Christ's return and the meeting with him noted above.

I tried to highlight and draw attention to what is noted. Paul finds the Thessalonians have adopted some strange notion, and he is clarifying the matter, reminding them not to be misled. Christ's return will be revealed in his time, and this follows Satan's appearance, who, as the Antichrist is coming to be as Christ, and will be here, to take those who letteth. Those who believe upon a strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.

So, Paul makes it clear, as does the balance of the Bible, that Christ returns follows the deception of the Antichrist.


Matthew 24

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


Here, Christ himself, declares to his followers, when he will come. After the Tribulation. Those 7 years cut short.

This is Echoed in Mark 13


13:23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.
13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
13:25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.


And in light of this, reflection upon Paul's letter to the Ephesians and the following doesn't make much sense.


Ephesians 6

10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:


If, we are not to be here, due to this rapture matter, what need is there to take up the Whole Armour of God?

Ciao

Shane



posted on Jul, 22 2006 @ 01:00 AM
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Revelation 14:1And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

4These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Does this make sense if you take this literally? So all these Jews of the 12 tribes of Israel will have Yahweh or whatever on thier foreheads(probaby red crayon, maybe even a magic marker), and all never had sexual intercourse. YEP, that definately sounds like the correect way to interpret bible prophecy.



posted on Jul, 22 2006 @ 01:30 AM
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Originally posted by Shortness
Revelation 14:1And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

4These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Does this make sense if you take this literally?


Now I see where that is from. I had some impression this was suggesting women when you noted it earlier, but that was MY hastyness seeing other misrepentations and piling this in with those.

Yes, literally, 12000 Virgin, (unmarried celibate males of Judah) is not something amazing. Likewise, 12000 of each of the Other Tribes is nothing amazing in total.


So all these Jews of the 12 tribes of Israel will have Yahweh or whatever on thier foreheads(probaby red crayon, maybe even a magic marker), and all never had sexual intercourse. YEP, that definately sounds like the correect way to interpret bible prophecy.


No, the 12000 Jews from one of the 12 Tribes of Israel will have the Fathers name written IN their foreheads. As will the Balance of those tribes, WHO ARE NOT JEW'S. They are seperate people. Jews decended only from Judah. Dan, Benjamin, Asher and so on, are not JEWS. Together they all make Israel.

"In their Foreheads" is "in their Mind's". Not "on" their foreheads.

And again, abstaining from Pre Martial Sex is no big deal. It's done all over the world.

But believe as you wish. Thats you choice.

Ciao

Shane



posted on Jul, 22 2006 @ 01:39 PM
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Circular logic. Believe in the WORD.
The Word is written so that the rules are for the club to follow the rules.
The so-called Bible, has so many changes in it that you wouldn't recognize the original, and if you did, why follow the rules of the club 1700 years ago?

Belief in a God of your understanding....Faith in a dogma that can't change with the burgeoning population.

The old testament is pretty outdated- Sorry, but it just doesn't make sense to keep yourself seperate from your fellows through a superiority clause.

-----
Besides the media isn't at fault for hiding the bad news, it just makes for bad business. and we can't have that.

Next time a bum begs for a dollar, give him $20. or pay it forward



posted on Jul, 22 2006 @ 03:04 PM
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Originally posted by Shortness

errr Treaty of Tripoli does not spell Constitution to me.........nor an ammendment.........so your "point" is mute.........


Why? A secular document signed by all in the senate in George Washington's 2nd term that said that the United States was not a christian nation thus proves just that, we are not a christian nation. What happened to Deny Ignorance? You seem to be embracing it.





I find it amazing in all the writtings, prayers, and thousands of references to God and the creator throughout the history of this great country, you members of a significantly small minority in america find a single phrase in a treaty with muslim pirates declaring america has freedom OF religion and is not solely christian as your "smoking gun".


If this were so important why did it die after 8 years.......?

I would read the treaty to lift up judaisim.............

But again I must point out the spin of such secular terrorist to twist the truth of americas founding. Secularisim in itself is a religion. The religion of self.........



posted on Jul, 22 2006 @ 10:49 PM
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1 Thessalonians

4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep ( those that are dead ), that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. ( When Jesus died, he went to those who slept, and preached the Word, and when he arose, those who accepted Christ, also went to heaven. This was his defeat of Death)
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. ( We can not stop the Dead from going to Heaven. To be absent of the Flesh is to be in the presence of the Lord. The Dead are already there, so those that live until his return, can not be there before those that have fallen asleep.)
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words. ( MY INSERTS)


1 Thessalonians is talking about the Rapture and the Coming of the Lord for his bride. It is not about the Day of the Lord




2 Thessalonians

1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: (The Rapture?)
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness (MY INSERT )


Verse 1 is talking about the Coming of the Lord and the gathering ot the Saints FROM HEAVEN, who previously died, have been raptured or were killed in the tribulation.
In verse 2 Paul is talking about the Day of the Lord(Christ), saying don't worry the Day of the Lord is not at hand because because the Anti Christ must be revealed before the Day of the Lord can happen.

Verse 6 and 7 talks about the Anti Christ can't be revealed until the Holy Spirit that withholds him is taken away. Those that have their lamps full of oil (the Holy Spirit) and are waiting for the bridegroom are taken away in the twinkling of an eye in the Rapture.

Verse 11 the delusion cannot refer to the rapture. If a man served and loved God and the truth of his ways he would be saved not punished. The delusion is for the wicked that loved not God or his ways. The delusion is very likely that when the rapture occurs prior to the Anti Christ being revealed those left will believe a lie that the aliens came and took them. Thats your delusion, it's all over this forum.

Matthew 24

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


The earth is mouning because the judgement is at hand.


Luke 21
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; 26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. 27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. ]
29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; 30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. 31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand. 32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. 33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. 34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. 35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.


When you see these things......BEGIN...........then look up for your redemption.

Watch therefore that you may be.........WORTHY TO ESCAPE.........these things





If, we are not to be here, due to this rapture matter, what need is there to take up the Whole Armour of God?

The armor is for the battle that we should be fighting now. Have we overcome addictions, lust, envy, anger etc., etc.



Thanks for taking the time to respond Shane.

Got any other reasons that there will be no pre trib rapture?

[edit on 22-7-2006 by Sun Matrix]



posted on Jul, 22 2006 @ 11:16 PM
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Originally posted by thermopolis

Originally posted by Shortness

errr Treaty of Tripoli does not spell Constitution to me.........nor an ammendment.........so your "point" is mute.........


Why? A secular document signed by all in the senate in George Washington's 2nd term that said that the United States was not a christian nation thus proves just that, we are not a christian nation. What happened to Deny Ignorance? You seem to be embracing it.





I find it amazing in all the writtings, prayers, and thousands of references to God and the creator throughout the history of this great country, you members of a significantly small minority in america find a single phrase in a treaty with muslim pirates declaring america has freedom OF religion and is not solely christian as your "smoking gun".


If this were so important why did it die after 8 years.......?

I would read the treaty to lift up judaisim.............

But again I must point out the spin of such secular terrorist to twist the truth of americas founding. Secularisim in itself is a religion. The religion of self.........


LoL so all those references to "God" and/or creator QUICKLY equates to the Christian God of the BIble?

Read the declaration of Independence, the very document the Evangelical Christians use to prove that the U.S. was founded by christianity.

It says "they are endowed by thier creator" not by Jesus, not by God. the FOunding fathers were DEIST, not christians by any stretch of the imagination. They respected the religions of others, because they knew what happened when Church and State mingled.

My smoking gun is this.. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" And as the words of Thomas Jefferson, THE VERY SAME PERSON WHO AUTHORED THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE ONCE SAID...


Believing that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their Legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church and State (Letter to the Danbury Baptists, 1802).


The treaty of Tripoli only supports what the declaration of Independence say.



Make no mistake about it, I believe in Jesus. But to force my religion upon others, whether it be morally or in the courtrooms, is against the principles of what Jesus taught, which is to preach the gospel to the world, whomsoever will hear it, not force it upon them.



[edit on 22-7-2006 by Shortness]

[edit on 22-7-2006 by Shortness]



posted on Jul, 23 2006 @ 08:05 AM
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Originally posted by Sun Matrix

Thanks for taking the time to respond Shane.

Got any other reasons that there will be no pre trib rapture?

[edit on 22-7-2006 by Sun Matrix]


Your welcome. I am always open to at least provide an answer to anyone's questions and like these ones that no one else wishes to try.

And despite your differing view, thanks for being Civil. I trust this can be an example for others to consider, when faced with having Opinions which differ

As you can see, there are two views, and here, We have both utilized the Same verses for those conclusions.

You see and view this as you have expressed, and I view this as I have.

So, who's right????? I guess only God knows.

Genesis 6 covers a lot of Taking Away. Correct?

The Fallen, Satan, and the Nephilum, along with those who defiled themsleves with god and diety worship of these fallen.

Noah was preserved, Correct? He was brought through the Flood?

It is clear though, that the stains of the events that lead upto the Flood, where Taken from this earth, either directly or indirectly by the Flood.


Matthew 24: 36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.


I highlighted who is being taken, in this response of Christ's. The example remains focused on those that got Taken in the flood, and moves to the Future, (The Now).

Those that fell and became part of the Taken in the Days of Noah, and the One taken from the Mill and the Other taken from the field.

They are all taken. It's common through the thought.


Well that's about as much of the "Rapture" Stuff, that I would be concerned with, and from my prepsective, this is echoing the Notations offered earlier.

I am certain your view will be otherwise, but that's fine too.

The good thing is, we have a common enemy, and it is during this coming battle, we shall see who maybe correct.

And when it's over, it's all GOOD.

Ciao

Shane



posted on Jul, 23 2006 @ 09:22 AM
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Originally posted by Shortness

Make no mistake about it, I believe in Jesus. But to force my religion upon others, whether it be morally or in the courtrooms, is against the principles of what Jesus taught, which is to preach the gospel to the world, whomsoever will hear it, not force it upon them.
[edit on 22-7-2006 by Shortness]
[edit on 22-7-2006 by Shortness]


There is a huge difference between the "lukewarm" approach of relying on a simgle human voice spreading of the gospel and equating placing the ten commandments on the wall of a school as "convert or die". Simply speading the gospel and not providing reinforcment of the word has sent this nation into secular hell.

Removing God from our society is really all about the "fallen" feeling guilty when they see the words of God.

Spreading the Gospel is to be every breath, on every street corner, on every wall.........

Conversly, anti-christ work is "convert or die" which is Islam from it pagan beginnings.

And don't give me that mideveil inquisition crap.....that was done by the catholic church which is about as pagan as it gets.

Catholic or Islam are both NON christian. Each elevates someone other than christ to deity status........err...."mary" and mohamed. In many ways Catholics are worse becuase of theis idolitry........



posted on Jul, 25 2006 @ 02:06 AM
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If you also pay attention, we are supposed to have 500 years of peace before Jesus Returns. And the way things are looking, we are far from it.



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