Extremists, all of you...I want you in this thread

Yes, you heard me. I want you here. I want to take this grand opportunity to tell you exactly how I feel about each and every one of you. You're ruining my country. And NO I won't buy into your propaganda that it's all the government's fault.

I was reading in the Fox News thread about what is going on in Israel at the moment and how it may be a possibility that Iran has sent a missile to Israel. And guess what...they're already plotting that it is a sinister plot of the U.S. government to start WWIII and take over the world. Do any of you know how warped that is? I mean this is some serious stuff going on and you don't take it serious. You just completely belittle it and all the players involved by giving the U.S. all of this evil power. You need to figure out that the U.S. is not the only evil in this world. But, you're so bent on taking over our government that you could care less if China, Russia or whoever invaded our country right now..because guess what...it would be our fault. Everything is our fault. Because you don't like the government and you probably never will. And hey I won't deny there are more than likely real conspiracies out there, but NOT everything is a conspiracy by the U.S. government. Maybe just maybe they are the good guys in this? Did that ever cross your minds? No, it wouldn't...because you're brainwashed. Bush could sneeze and it would somehow be a plot to control the world. He's an idiot. A complete idiot...he doesn't have the brains to take over the world. Oh but wait, he's just a puppet? Right?

I want you to bring your rhetoric and your propaganda into this thread, each and everyone of you. Because i'm going to take it down. I'm not going to attack you personally just your extreme politics. IF that threatens you in any way...then you need to back out of this thread. I'm not here to win a popularity contest, i'm here to take my country back from you extremists, because YOU are the people attempting to control the masses.

BRING IT ON!

I agree Bush is a puppet behind secret powers. But these secret powers believe it or not have motives. Some may argue wether or not these motives are correct or not but thats a matter of oppinion.

As I've said in previous posts, the U.S. fascist regime wants oil.
But oil is not all the U.S. wants.
The U.S. wants security in the world, not only against nations like China and Russia but mainly against Muslim theocratical extremist nations.

I believe we are trying very hard to deal with Muslim theocratical nations and I do believe Israel is a pawn in this world wide war.

I believe somthing must be done or the world will eventually submit to Muslim theocracy as a whole. Yes, you heard me right. The whole world MAY be under the rule of Muslim extremist nations if we don't deal with this threat.

Though the U.S. may be the nation leading this war we can't blame the U.S. for the problems. The problems still originate from the middle east and the U.S. is the leader in dealing with them. The U.S. does has its motives (oil) but there are other leaders that DO have things such as world peace in mind and they need your support. The world can never live in peace while there are extremeist religious nations in power, it must be dealt with! Please support the U.S. in this world wide chrisis!


[edit on 13-7-2006 by Techsnow]

Gosh, here is one sensible person. I really can't argue with your opinion all that much. It's very sensible and logical really. I know the U.S. has it's own interests they are trying to protect. This situation is getting very serious. It makes me sick to see American citizens belittle the situation by not taking it seriously. It makes me want to yell and scream at them bunches and bunches.

Edited to add...I'm not agreeing with you on your opinion of Bush being a puppet, necessarily. I want to make that clear. Just giving you credit for stating that it is an opinon.

[edit on 13-7-2006 by zenlover28]

At what price? In order to combat these scary Muslim theorcratical nuts, what are we sacrificing? The very things that make America what it is. Civil liberties. Constitutional rights. Human dignity. Free expression. ect ect ect.

No, I do not support America's war against the theocratic nutcases if this war against them is going to make us more like them: bloodthirsty, religion crazy, intolerant and irrational fools.

No thanks. Some things arent worth sacrificing.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
At what price? In order to combat these scary Muslim theorcratical nuts, what are we sacrificing? The very things that make America what it is. Civil liberties. Constitutional rights. Human dignity. Free expression. ect ect ect.

No, I do not support America's war against the theocratic nutcases if this war against them is going to make us more like them: bloodthirsty, religion crazy, intolerant and irrational fools.

No thanks. Some things arent worth sacrificing.

Okay, yeah you don't get it.

NEXT!?

Okay I can't get away with that. I challenged your rhetoric so i'll live up to that challenge. Please tell me the usual. What civil liberties, etc. are you compromising? blah blah blah.

Originally posted by Techsnow
I agree Bush is a puppet behind secret powers. But these secret powers believe it or not have motives.

Do you have any proof of this other than some site with speculation and stories with no proof?



Like I said, if this is a secret war between the West and Islamic fanatics & The East then I will support it. Because I do believe these people and countries will seek to rule everything. And I personally like Western life in which we can change things eventually (meaning it is not perfect). But if this whole thing is because Israel is pms'ing because of their problems, I couldn't care less. And the majority of Americans couldn't either. We are thousands of miles a way. Our gas will go up. And our tax dollars will be used. This is what America will be thinking. But like I said above, I would support it, if it is to go against Communism & Islamic fanaticism.

And people say that America's rights are being taken away. I haven't noticed ANYTHING, taken a way. Sure there are cases now brought to the public of NSA spying, but do you really think they never did this before? I have not been affected by anything. People protest against the government. If we were truly becoming authoritarian Cindy Sheehan would not be still protesting /

We need to keep our eyes open of course, as always.

Originally posted by zenlover28
Okay I can't get away with that. I challenged your rhetoric so i'll live up to that challenge. Please tell me the usual. What civil liberties, etc. are you compromising? blah blah blah.

I am compromizing nothing. Its the current powers that are doing the compromizing.

The fourth ammendment. Illegal search and seizure.

Think AT&T recording turning over private phone data to the NSA. Thats REALLY Orwellian.

The patriot act. Arresting people and holding them without charge. Totally against the consitutional right to a speedy trial.

Guantanamo bay. The people being held there in limbo. Are they guilty? We dont know. Why? We havent even had any trials for most of them. Why has their status not yet been established?

Zen you wont get through to most people. They just don't understand the situation we are in today.

To me this is almsot as serious as an alien (ET) threat. The world is facing a real threat of being processed into a world wide fanatical relgion. Sure today they are against the U.S. but tomorrow it will be the EU. and then the rest of the world untill all submit to the extremist religion.

Well so far you are the most logical yet, Retinoid....except i'm not in agreement regarding Israel Pms'ing. I agree they do get a little cranky every now and again, but this situation is getting serious. And i'm not convinced that we're only fighting Islamic extremism in this fight, but that is only an opinion on my end.

Still waiting for the civil liberties, etc. debate.

listen zenlover, or zionistlover or whatever your name is, with all due respect... can you explain how our towers fell on 9-11? i am a union ironworker by trade, and i can personally send you some kerosene (jet fuel) and some structural steel. poor it on it and hold your breath until the metal melts. then let me know what happened on that day. i build these types of building for a living, no-built as light as possible, AIRCRAFT ALUMINUM PLANE, IS GOING TO BRING DOWN A STRUCTURAL STEEL BUILDING. and you have to be an idiot to believe their story. I am not saying the government causes all the problems in this world.. but if killing their own people, so they can gain some support for this war is how OUR GOVERNMENT WORKS then you tell me who i should be mad at???? did i vote this idiot into office?? of course not his SUPPORTERS from diebold and es&s (owners of the companies are brothers) did with their machines that turn out more votes than registered voters! so go ahead and support these scum. and when our stretched paper thin military cant protect its own country from real threats ( to busy trying to take over other countries) then you can come and whine about how our gov. is so perfect. they knew of pearl harbor, project northwoods, 9-11, and many others.... it just simply makes me sick. im sorry if i sound so condescending (sp?) but these types of things shouldnt go over so easily without our great citizens being able to do something about it.

[edit on 13-7-2006 by Joe_knows]

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor

Originally posted by Techsnow
I agree Bush is a puppet behind secret powers. But these secret powers believe it or not have motives.

Do you have any proof of this other than some site with speculation and stories with no proof?



Like I said, if this is a secret war between the West and Islamic fanatics & The East then I will support it. Because I do believe these people and countries will seek to rule everything. And I personally like Western life in which we can change things eventually (meaning it is not perfect). But if this whole thing is because Israel is pms'ing because of their problems, I couldn't care less. And the majority of Americans couldn't either. We are thousands of miles a way. Our gas will go up. And our tax dollars will be used. This is what America will be thinking. But like I said above, I would support it, if it is to go against Communism & Islamic fanaticism.

And people say that America's rights are being taken away. I haven't noticed ANYTHING, taken a way. Sure there are cases now brought to the public of NSA spying, but do you really think they never did this before? I have not been affected by anything. People protest against the government. If we were truly becoming authoritarian Cindy Sheehan would not be still protesting

/

We need to keep our eyes open of course, as always.

No, unfortunately, I have no proof for this, it is my personal belief of the situation. I do however, find it very hard to believe that this is just Israel "pmsing". I believe this is a world wide crisis that has escalated and I believe it must be dealt with as I have stated in previous posts.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
The fourth ammendment. Illegal search and seizure.

trust me you don't want to have this debate with me. trust me. but, we can if you wish.

Think AT&T recording turning over private phone data to the NSA. Thats REALLY Orwellian.

perfectly legal. not a compromise of your rights. but, we can debate this if you wish. i promise i will win. i'm 100% confident in that.

The patriot act. Arresting people and holding them without charge. Totally against the consitutional right to a speedy trial.

u.s. citizens are being held without charge? where? when? how? why? who?

Guantanamo bay. The people being held there in limbo. Are they guilty? We dont know. Why? We havent even had any trials for most of them. Why has their status not yet been established?

again, u.s. citizens are being held in Guantanamo bay?

Even if these things arn't "legal" what makes the U.S. say they CAN'T change it?

The constitution has been changed ever since it was released to fit reality.

The constitution was never realistic in the first place, it was an unrealist dream from the start and it has been changed many, mnay times since it came out.

The term illegal and legal are only defined by the government and the government WILL make it legal if they have to for the good of the nation. Remember they DO have the good of the nation in mind. Don't try to fight such things, you don't know what is really going on and you don't understand how things such as illegal search and seizure can affect a nation if it wernt legal.

As for the patriot act, I have read this act and it has been put in place to form the nation into a fascist state that has been long over due. Don't try to fight it, you will only be fighting the inevitable.

Originally posted by Joe_knows
listen zenlover, or zionistlover or whatever your name is, with all due respect... can you explain how our towers fell on 9-11? i am a union ironworker by trade, and i can personally send you some kerosene (jet fuel) and some structural steel. poor it on it and hold your breath until the metal melts. then let me know what happened on that day.

well joe blows whatever your name is..no disrespect...but, are you considering all factors in your analysis of the fall of the Towers? Is jet fuel and steel the only two factors you are considering in your analysis?

i build these types of building for a living, no-built as light as possible, AIRCRAFT ALUMINUM PLANE, IS GOING TO BRING DOWN A STRUCTURAL STEEL BUILDING. and you have to be an idiot to believe their story.

again, are the only factors you are considering here are jet fuel and the temperature?

I am not saying the government causes all the problems in this world.. but if killing their own people, so they can gain some support for this war is how OUR GOVERNMENT WORKS then you tell me who i should be mad at????

let's just say that if it is to be proven that it was a controlled demolition...what makes you think it was the U.S. government that planned and orchestrated it? Do you have facts to back that up with your experience of building buildings?

did i vote this idiot into office?? of course not his SUPPORTERS from diebold and es&s (owners of the companies are brothers) did with their machines that turn out more votes than registered voters! so go ahead and support these scum.

Uh huh. And what facts do you have to back this up except hanging Chads in Florida and Ohio, etc. Are these occurrences uncommon in elections with the exception of the hanging Chads?

and when our stretched paper thin military cant protect its own country from real threats ( to busy trying to take over other countries)

and what would a real threat be?

then you can come and whine about how our gov. is so perfect.

never once did i say our government is perfect. don't misquote me. it irritates my nerves and i become all irrational.

actually, believe it or not...i believe our government had prior knowledge of 9-11 and turned a blind eye to some of the signs. I do not believe they orchestrated it though.

they knew of pearl harbor, project northwoods, 9-11, and many others....

you know it just seems a bit too convenient to me that the Project Northwoods plot existed and was known to exist and then wham bam thank you mam...it happened. Seriously, that just seems all too convenient for people like you, doesn't it? They would be even bigger idiots than I give them credit for to carry something like that out with people having knowledge of that plot. But, hey like I said...Bush is an idiot. Only thing is..ya know..he only had 9 months to do it in. Geeez, he must not be such an idiot then.

it just simply makes me sick. im sorry if i sound so condescending (sp?) but these types of things shouldnt go over so easily without our great citizens being able to do something about it.

right and if it were ever proven to be true...well, I just don't want to say all of the horrific things that I think should be done to our leaders. However, I don't think it will ever be proven. It's a conspiracy theory for a reason.

Edited a mispelling

[edit on 13-7-2006 by zenlover28]

Originally posted by zenlover28
trust me you don't want to have this debate with me. trust me. but, we can if you wish.

Trust you? Sorry, if this is an attempt of some sort to get me to back down, you failed. Miserably.

perfectly legal. not a compromise of your rights. but, we can debate this if you wish. i promise i will win. i'm 100% confident in that.

Oh, Im sure under the Bush administration its legal. It was also legal under Nazi German law for the Gestapo to drag you off and torture you for no reason but suspicion. Legal does not make it right or constitutional.

u.s. citizens are being held without charge? where? when? how? why? who?

U.S. constitutional law applies to all persons on U.S. soil. Citizen or not.

again, u.s. citizens are being held in Guantanamo bay?

See above.

Will happily continue tommorow. Its bedtime 4:10 a.m.

Okay you asked for it. Let me grab some coffee and some breakfast and i'll get started. Oh and I wasn't trying to get you to back down.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
The fourth ammendment. Illegal search and seizure.
Think AT&T recording turning over private phone data to the NSA. Thats REALLY Orwellian.

Not so. Smith vs. Maryland ruled in 1979 that your phone numbers are not your personal property and are given to a third party and you should have no reasonable expectation of privacy with them. Society does not recognize it as a reasonable expectation of privacy because the numbers you dial are willfully given to the phone companies anyway. Not saying I agree with it, but that's how it is. Also you need to do your research on past presidents. You're blaming this solely on Bush.

And also, the 4th Amendment only says that you have the right to be secure in your persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures and refers to places to be searched. No mention of privacy there when it comes to your phone number or anything else for that matter.

The patriot act. Arresting people and holding them without charge. Totally against the consitutional right to a speedy trial. Guantanamo bay. The people being held there in limbo. Are they guilty? We dont know. Why? We havent even had any trials for most of them. Why has their status not yet been established?

Ummm okay. I suppose the rest of your post is referring to Guantanamo Bay exclusively. Now, first off I want to say that I in no shape, form or fashion agree with the torture that has gone on there. However, I do have to take a reality check every now and again and realize that place is Disney Land compared to Russia and their treatment of Chechnans and the Chinese and the Tibet, etc. And I have to think about the realities of what happens in war time. But, just so you know Guantanamo Bay is not on U.S. soil. It is in Cuba. Now, it doesn't make it right and i'm not attempting to argue your opinion of it, just the facts of it. The Constitution does say that being born gives us a right to due process which makes it a Liberty (a freedom) and not a U.S. right. And, I think we are being hypocritical by not allowing others those freedoms regardless of being on U.S. soil or not. But, the fact remains that it isn't on U.S. soil, and that is how they look at it. Nothing I can do about it. I think it's wrong. But, that's just my humble opinion.

Anything else?

i'm sort of an extremist, but not one of the ones you want, it seems. i feel belittled, and hurt.

for example - i'm extremely awesome. i'm extremely afraid of spiders.

i'm extremely on your side about this.

our government, while corrupt and overpowered, isn't going to go so far as to start a world war with 2 years left in their administration. they would never be sure that their goals would be met in such a lofty endeavor. if, say, a libertarian (GASP) got elected in '08, all of bush and his cronies' plans would simply wither. millions, maybe billions dead, and the bush family wouldn't control the world. not many people are that evil, and i highly doubt anyone in our government fits the bill.

i'm not going to say these consipracy theories are completely impossible, but i find the likelihood that they ARE true extremely small.

giving any credence to these things is a sign that i've been on ATS too long.

I want extremists on all sides. Libertarians (who are the extreme version of my party), Liberals, Conservatives, all of them.